"Newbie killing... it's a problem"

You lost me there mate.

Lulz.

Well, perhaps you should let them know FAMY is a pirate guild, and you harassing them will only reinforce our belief that you lot are to be shot on sight.

Expect hostility. Deal with it, and train them properly, and perhaps none of this would happen in the first place.

So kierky harasses newbs because I harass newbs because he harasses newbs.

Golden!

Wasn't this in Bractus?

hahahaha. savet if you want FAMY taken seriously dont do exactly what you did there

i want footballprophet back as famy leader.

It doesn't matter who the leader is. Station camping on someone whos licenses are under 1/1/1/1/1 says much about that person. Itll crush any hopes of accumulating new players. If you see a newb in grey space shoot him down by all means. But if you notice he set home to a grey station, fucking offer him an escort back to nation space, no matter what guild he is in. The last thing we need is some newb getting caught out in greyspace that is literally not being allowed to make it back to nation space.

It really doesnt accomplish or prove anything other than furthering the discouragment of new players continuing to play VO.

I am not blaming TGFT or ITAN because I've heard of individuals doing this without any relation to guilds.

However, you can easily explain to a newb, "look ill take you back this one time but if i see you in grey space again i will shoot you because our guilds are enemies"

At the end of the day this game needs new comers to stick around...shoot em in the face but also give a little encouragement to stick around

The way I handle this personally and what I tell my guildmates to do, is: if you find an enemy newbie in grey space, blow them up, maybe even a few times, but make the point across that grey space is dangerous and that setting home someplace where they can't even buy a decent ship is a bad idea.

Usually I'll offer some escape advice too, like stop buying Revenants and switch to Centurions if you want to actually get away from somebody.

1) generally, newbies don't read the forums

2) FAMY made griefing mainstream

When I shoot a famy and he asks 'why did you shoot me!' in surprise, I explain that he joined a pirate guild. I am disturbed that some don't seem to know this simple fact. Shame on whomever invited them in. I see a lot of X-famy noobs around now.

Yeah, I kind of agree with csgno1 here. One of the first things a guild should do with a new member is to educate the new member about their new enemies and the procedures to deal with them. Especially if the guild in question is a generally piratical guild that often tries to downplay the piratical nature to the point where new members may not realize that they're painting a huge target on their backs...

That said, it's pretty lame to station camp newbies for extended periods just for joining a guild you dislike. I don't know if that's what actually happened though, or if the OP is complaining about people getting killed just a handful of times outside their home station before wussing out. Short bouts of station camping are just part of the game. Longer bouts should be reserved for non-newbs, spammers, etc.

I agree with Rin, csgno1, and even kierky that more training and instruction is required. But that takes time, and players get frustrated now if they cannot play the game or even leave the station. I also want to point out that if you actively discourage players from playing a shady character, then there are going to be a lack of shady characters. This goes beyond just FAMY, this applies to @x, NOOB, and whatever new "pirate" guilds pop up.

Darth Nihilus summarized it perfectly. Shoot whoever you want, but make it a point to let them go once you've toyed with them. Also remember what it's like to be a newbie. By the time you finish a match in B8, and go to repair, the newbie is probably finishing outfitting his next ship and leaving the dock. You might just be killing him every time you return, he might be getting killed every time he leave the station. Perspective is everything.

I'm not going to beat the topic to death, my intention was only to raise awareness. Blaming current behaviors on people that have since left the game, or on past behaviors does nothing to strengthen the community, and only creates a negative atmosphere that turns new players away or indoctrinates them into the cycle of rhetoric and bile that gets spewed on 100.

I kill all FAMY newbs 5 times, then allow them to home somewhere less stupid. I also explain they're in a pirate guild, and are treated as hostile by the rest of the universe.

You know what they say to me?
"I'm afraid if I leave then the pirates will hunt me down, that's why I haven't left. It's why I joined in the first place".

I wonder who gave them that ultimatum.

For the record, I gave them that ultimatum. I contact every noob of every guild ever and scare the living bejesus out of them before they join. It's a public service.

If I catch a newb in Greyspace, I don't hesitate to shoot them dead. Grey is a dangerous place and should be. But if they home at a Grey station, I never shoot them more than twice there. Usually I recommend they stay in the station until I leave, which is usually soon. Or I offer them temporary passage to go back to their own nation's space. I've even let newbs ride along in the turret of an Atlas when nationalists were being difficult.

And I always encourage our members to do much the same when I discover there's a newb homed in Grey. Now, if said newb doesn't want to leave, or makes challenges on 100, that's a different story. But even still, we do a fair amount of planned-ignoring.

So the whole, "FAMY griefs newbs so we grief their newbs" thing is a crock. It's a few dicks shooting newbs of a guild they don't like, in an attempt to pressure them to leave said guild.

A couple of pilots in TGFT and ITAN pride themselves in being dicks. It's good that they take pride in their work. They purport to take a high ground, but all they're really doing is dabbling in the very dark urges they pretend to be in opposition to. Then, when FAMY applies the same "moral authority" in Dau, it takes on a different flavor. Except that taste in your mouths, TGFT/ITAN, is that of your own hypocrisy.

And, Kierky, that newb that told you he/she was afraid to leave FAMY comes as interesting news in light of the comments ITAN newbs have told me. More than one has indicated their reason for leaving ITAN is you. Personally, I chalk this up to them being immature and I know your low tolerance for slow-learning newbs. But it wouldn't surprise me if we're thinking of the same one or two newbs -both of which were recently let go.

vrzzzt... you FAMY folks still manage to be surprising me in your cuddly cuteness. you just make everyone want to pat your cheeks and "aww" at you when you do that cute snort with your big nose....rozhozhoz...
all rp aside, I'll do some opinion sharing here. note that its my opinion, not that of TGFT. some fellows of mine might see it differently.

i think newbies are not supposed to be in grey space when their levels are low. when i was new, i did not go to grey space before i hit 5s everywhere. then i went down, got blasted in a furball in b8 and went back to nation space and levelled me some more. i did that until i had reasonable levels and started winning fights. some time passed until i got to a reasonable level of skill to defend myself successfully.

that's what i did. now what most of todays newbies do: they ignorantly fly through grey, despite all the friendly advice i throw at them. i leave all of them alone. those with FAMY tag i shoot once or twice, ALWAYS informing them why i did it. precious little of your new members know what your actual profession is. given that i'm probably the most active combat-member of TGFT, I can assure you that none such "griefing into" quitting has been done. merely informing that its riskful to fly with the tag when you're completely new and don't know one thing about combat.
I suggest you guys get your stuff together and maybe do a crash course for every new member, informing them about the dangerous life in grey... don't blame your organization issues on TGFT. rzzzzrrt

I'm not saying it doesn't happen, but I find it difficult to believe that any significant number of new players would not know of FAMY's business model before joining.

That said, I've seen many new players sounding off on public chat begging someone to invite them into a guild. Then instead of listening to sound advice, they create some crap new guild that's guaranteed to have a lifespan of less than two months.

Further, new players venturing stupidly into Grey space isn't "today's" problem. This has been going on for at least the 6 or 7 years that I've been around. I have no sympathy for them. Also, I have no vested interest in new players. Sure I'd like the game to be more populous, but after this long of having a fairly flat player base, I've come to not care. Most are going to get bored and vanish regardless of whether they are griefed or coddled. For the few who remain any length of time, neither grief nor coddle will from my observations have had any meaningful impact.

Probably the worst part of VO imo is getting to combat 4 as a new player. I don't like it myself when I bother to create a new alt and I know tips and have cheats to speed that process along.

Frankly, I do not support the current license system that limits what ships and weapons players can buy. I think that those should be restricted by price, faction standing and achievement. Giving new players shit equipment to use and then expecting them to remain in mostly empty nation space when they by human nature want to be around other players head almost immediately into Grey because that's where everyone tells them people and fights are occurring is imo the bigger problem.

The problem with new player retention and the balancing system in place has to do with vo's sandbox mentality. The refusal to adopt a more directed game play will only yield a continued vector in the same direction vo has been on and has continued to prove ineffectual at increasing the play base.

"and has continued to prove ineffectual at increasing the play base."

You have made an incorrect assumption there.