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Learn 2 read, bro. This might help:
http://mrnussbaum.com/readingpassageindex/
"Whatever they decide to do though, will effect exactly no real people. It's been the way it is now for almost a year and the only person to be effected by any aspect of /explode within a protected system is a bot that didn't know any better."
If it will affect exactly no real people, why the fuck do you care so much? Apparently you are not a real person?
http://mrnussbaum.com/readingpassageindex/
"Whatever they decide to do though, will effect exactly no real people. It's been the way it is now for almost a year and the only person to be effected by any aspect of /explode within a protected system is a bot that didn't know any better."
If it will affect exactly no real people, why the fuck do you care so much? Apparently you are not a real person?
I cared first because it effects bots and by bringing up the issue of inconsistent penalties for explosion caused deaths I then cared secondly because it is important that the devs, if they choose to do anything, bring the handling of player actions and events under more simplistic rules rather than making more exceptions for no "player" impacting reason.
a player would not do what the bot did because they would assume killing or damaging another player in a zone where that's not allowed would cause some kind of penalty, hence why it wont effect "Players". The fact that it doesn't cause a penalty unless you actually kill them is the bug (that and it only triggers 1 penalty out of 3). Will anyone get impacted directly by making it so? Probably not, it took 11 months for this particular behavior to make it to the forum with 1 single instance of it occurring, but at least you will be able to tell players "If you damage someone as a result of weapon fire (including detonating your ship) you will be penalized in X Y Z areas of the game" No special exceptions.
Since it wont impact actual thinking players either way, having the solution make common sense as well as avoid exceptions to a general rule that is intuitive is better.
a player would not do what the bot did because they would assume killing or damaging another player in a zone where that's not allowed would cause some kind of penalty, hence why it wont effect "Players". The fact that it doesn't cause a penalty unless you actually kill them is the bug (that and it only triggers 1 penalty out of 3). Will anyone get impacted directly by making it so? Probably not, it took 11 months for this particular behavior to make it to the forum with 1 single instance of it occurring, but at least you will be able to tell players "If you damage someone as a result of weapon fire (including detonating your ship) you will be penalized in X Y Z areas of the game" No special exceptions.
Since it wont impact actual thinking players either way, having the solution make common sense as well as avoid exceptions to a general rule that is intuitive is better.
Please take a moment to refresh yourself on the difference between affect and effect, because you've been saying some rather odd things lately. :P
cellsafemode, what you are not getting is that too simplistic penalties open doors for abuse... and it is why they have be tweaked and arrived at the current state. It's not a mistake that /exploding doesn't incur a penalty... that was intention.
Saying a bug shouldn't be fixed because you don't like the way the game was intended to work seems petty.
Saying a bug shouldn't be fixed because you don't like the way the game was intended to work seems petty.
-1
If you're going to use a command to self destruct, which is what /explode is, then you should be aware of your surroundings. It's simply bad form to self-destruct without ensuring that bystanders are at a minimum safe distance.
If you're creating a bot that self-destructs, then it should take on the risk associated with it.
This isn't a bug at all. It's a feature. I wouldn't expect a real spaceship parked next to one that explodes to be unaffected. If you kill someone, you pay the consequence.
Boo to you.
If you're going to use a command to self destruct, which is what /explode is, then you should be aware of your surroundings. It's simply bad form to self-destruct without ensuring that bystanders are at a minimum safe distance.
If you're creating a bot that self-destructs, then it should take on the risk associated with it.
This isn't a bug at all. It's a feature. I wouldn't expect a real spaceship parked next to one that explodes to be unaffected. If you kill someone, you pay the consequence.
Boo to you.
Learn 2 read.
It's a consistency issue.
If the explosions don't trigger the NFZ, they should not count towards 24hKOS penalties.
End of story.
If you want to suggest that the intended behavior be changed, feel free to do so, in the Suggestions forum. Not in the Bugs.
If the explosions don't trigger the NFZ, they should not count towards 24hKOS penalties.
End of story.
If you want to suggest that the intended behavior be changed, feel free to do so, in the Suggestions forum. Not in the Bugs.
Concern over consistency should force you to arrive at /explode being treated like weapon fire. Getting exploded should not. The devs intentionally or otherwise mistakenly treated both the same when they purposefully made explosion damage not cause NFZ and faction penalties. That's the "bug". They're not the same and should have never been treated as such.
You shouldn't be surprised that 24hkos 3strike rule applies to /explode. It should be a surprise that temp KOS and faction standing loss do not because /explode is being treated erroneously the same as getting boomed.
it's no more a suggestion than this is. Just working from the opposite end of the issue.
/explode
you: no faction loss -> no temp kos -> so there should be no 24 kos = Bug
me: There's 24 kos -> should be temp kos -> should be faction loss. = Bug
You shouldn't be surprised that 24hkos 3strike rule applies to /explode. It should be a surprise that temp KOS and faction standing loss do not because /explode is being treated erroneously the same as getting boomed.
it's no more a suggestion than this is. Just working from the opposite end of the issue.
/explode
you: no faction loss -> no temp kos -> so there should be no 24 kos = Bug
me: There's 24 kos -> should be temp kos -> should be faction loss. = Bug
Since you're clearly delusional, stop posting rubbish and go make your own bugs thread if you think it's such a problem.
So it seems there is at least consensus that normal "oops I died" explosions should not count toward the 3 kills, and therefor that behavior is a bug and should be fixed. Presuming that actually happens; I'm getting the impression that the only behavior that was tested so far was the use of /explode? I can test genuine explosions later today.
I do agree with cellsafemode that /explode should be treated as an intentional attack with all the penalties thereof. However, if it would be easier for the devs to keep explosions in general consistent than to have them be treated differently, then so be it. I'd rather have natural explosions not cause penalties than have intentional ones cause penalties.
I do agree with cellsafemode that /explode should be treated as an intentional attack with all the penalties thereof. However, if it would be easier for the devs to keep explosions in general consistent than to have them be treated differently, then so be it. I'd rather have natural explosions not cause penalties than have intentional ones cause penalties.
Since you cannot accelerate during the /explode countdown, how can you reasonably call a manual explode a purposeful attack? The other party would need to purposely stay within range to be affected. Acceleration canceling the countdown was added because people were doing precisely that.
Example scenario: A pirate has stopped your ship. You act like you're going to pay, but instead you /explode.
Another example: You fly up next to a newbie who is mining (or just floating outside the station as newbies often do) and /explode. The newbie has no indication that you're about to self destruct, and your standings are good and you're in faction space, so they don't expect trouble. And if they're AFK mining, well, then you can just keep exploding EC-89s on them until they die.
So even with the no-thrust requirement, it's still easier to intentionally hurt somebody with /explode than it is to accidentally hurt somebody with /explode. To accidentally hurt somebody, you'd have to either be negligent about when you use the command, or they'd have to somehow realize you are using it (again, with no indication) and dart into range just as the 10 seconds are ending, and you'd have to not notice them rapidly approaching in time to tap a thruster.
I don't mind if people are forced to be a little more conscious of their surroundings while using /explode. In fact, that's a good thing.
Another example: You fly up next to a newbie who is mining (or just floating outside the station as newbies often do) and /explode. The newbie has no indication that you're about to self destruct, and your standings are good and you're in faction space, so they don't expect trouble. And if they're AFK mining, well, then you can just keep exploding EC-89s on them until they die.
So even with the no-thrust requirement, it's still easier to intentionally hurt somebody with /explode than it is to accidentally hurt somebody with /explode. To accidentally hurt somebody, you'd have to either be negligent about when you use the command, or they'd have to somehow realize you are using it (again, with no indication) and dart into range just as the 10 seconds are ending, and you'd have to not notice them rapidly approaching in time to tap a thruster.
I don't mind if people are forced to be a little more conscious of their surroundings while using /explode. In fact, that's a good thing.
Example scenario: A pirate has stopped your ship. You act like you're going to pay, but instead you /explode.
Riiight. The pirate's gonna be on 3% for a routine stop. hahahaha.
Riiight. The pirate's gonna be on 3% for a routine stop. hahahaha.
It's more likely than somebody who's at 3% just happening to be close to you when you /explode to go home. And that's the point. /explode is more likely to hit somebody intentionally than unintentionally, even if both possibilities are very low.
But hey, if you don't mind me being able to /explode against miners, I'm not going to throw a fit. Unlike cellsafemode, I don't think it's a big deal.
Also, I have pirated people while that damaged, since unlike most people, I don't feel a need to repair after every nick or scratch.
But hey, if you don't mind me being able to /explode against miners, I'm not going to throw a fit. Unlike cellsafemode, I don't think it's a big deal.
Also, I have pirated people while that damaged, since unlike most people, I don't feel a need to repair after every nick or scratch.
You aren't most people, Rin, lol. I would disagree that /explode results in more intentional damage than non-intentional... I would think most damage caused by /explode is done to traffic 2 NPCs. I tested this the other day, and it took a NPC moth down 5%.
If someone wants to kill people by exploding themselves in an EC-89 20 times (or whatever it takes), more power to them.
If someone wants to kill people by exploding themselves in an EC-89 20 times (or whatever it takes), more power to them.
"So it seems there is at least consensus that normal "oops I died" explosions should not count toward the 3 kills, and therefor that behavior is a bug and should be fixed. Presuming that actually happens; I'm getting the impression that the only behavior that was tested so far was the use of /explode? I can test genuine explosions later today."
I've now confirmed that the "Kill a newb while he's next to my heavily damaged friend in good standing to penalize the newb" exploit does work (no real newbs were harmed in the testing of this exploit). So, please fix this, devs!
I've now confirmed that the "Kill a newb while he's next to my heavily damaged friend in good standing to penalize the newb" exploit does work (no real newbs were harmed in the testing of this exploit). So, please fix this, devs!
Got a reply from a ticket saying they're working on it. Yay for bugfixes :)
there is no way in hell this should be a priority or a bug just to fix your stupid itan shop when there time is much needed else where
BigNastyOne, he already fixed his bot. Fixing the bug will not impact his bot. Meanwhile, fixing the bug does prevent people with worse ethics than me from teaming up to make newbies KOS for 24 hours from their home faction.
its called vendetta still don't think its a bug and can always just make it so no one does damage in capitol stations