Forums » Suggestions

Radar, friend and foe.

Aug 02, 2004 Spellcast link
EDIT I rambled again, sorry



Ok, Our current radar system bases the color of the dots on the radar based on how that persons standing is with your nation. (Serco, Itani, NT)

This leads to some problems, the main one being that defbots have good standing with every nation. and some people will end up with differnet color dots to each other. Such as when an itani who has raised their serco reputation high enough that they have a positive score runs across a regular serco somewhere. The itani will appear as green to the serco but the serco appears as red to the itani.

The way I see it there are only 4 faction standings that matter at any given time between 2 pilots in the same sector. (if we are in different sectors there is no radar to worry about) these 4 standings are:

How your nation feels about him
How the local faction (if any) feels about him
How his nation feels about you.
How the local faction (if any) feels about you.

Now combining these 4 factors into a simple easy to understand radar image is hard, because the simplest way to do it is to assign a differnt color dot to all 16 possible Like/Dislike combinations of the above. (for this particular thought experement we'll assume there are only those 2 options, at -100 or less you are disliked or you are liked)
The problem with the above approach is that you end up with 16 colors on the radar just for ships, and that gets REAL confusing real fast. Plus you have to remember what each color means. too much effort. :)

I propose a somewhat easier to display, (if slightly more complex to describe) method, where certain similar situations are grouped together. In this method the dotsn of 2 pilots would always appear the same color to each other.

the dots would appear green to each other only when all 4 of the above reputations are "like", that is, both players are liked by each others nation and by the local faction.

if both players are liked by each others nation, but either player is disliked by the local faction, the dots would appear yellow

If both players are liked by the local faction, but either player is disliked by the others nation, the dots would appear orange

if either player (or both) is disliked by both the other players nation, and the local faction, then the dots would appear red.

dots that are green or yellow would be considered "friendly" to each other, based on the fact that they are each liked by the others nation.

dots that are orange or red would be considerd "hostile" to each other, based on the fact that one of them is disliked by the others nation.

In the case where one of the "players" is a defbot, if you are disliked by that faction/nation, you are disliked by the players nation, which is also the local faction so the dots would appear red to each other.
That doesnt mean that you are KOS with the way I have it laid out. The numbers could be changed to more closely reflect that however by making "dislike" at -600 or less and "like" anything else.

As a special case, anyone who has done damage to your ship in the last 15 minutes will automatically appear as red on your radar allowing you to target him as a hostile. the dot would change color for both players just to stick with the method above of having 2 people always have the same dot color to each other. after 15 minutes the dots would revert to their normal color based on the above conditions.

Aug 03, 2004 Celkan link
Serco defbots appear red on Itani radar.
Aug 03, 2004 Spellcast link
ok, serco and itani defbots are hostile to people of the other nation and appear as red, thats the only case where that happens.

All the other factions have defbots that appear as green to everyone regardless of standing with that faction.
Aug 03, 2004 Celkan link
Defbots should be an indicator of your standing.

If you are Dislike and above then they are green no matter the nation
If you are Below dislike then they are red.

Reasoning: I have a -303 with serco; I know the defbots aren't going to attack me. So why are they red on my radar? Green would be more appropriate.
Aug 03, 2004 paedric link
They're watching you s'wit. Best not transgress in their presence. *cough* er.... *cough, cough* um...


At leaset let them go green if your standing is neutral or better.
Aug 09, 2004 Phaserlight link
Rather than introducing new colors to the radar, why not change the criteria of how a "friend" is distinguished from a "foe" on your radar? Rather than having radar color based on faction standing, an alternate method would be to have any ship that targets you with active weapons go to red.

For this suggestion to work, a "Master Safe" switch would need to be added that could turn on or off with a keystroke. When the master safe is on, weapons cannot be fired. The master safe would be on by default, until switched off by the player (thereby "arming" the weapons). All radar contacts would appear green, regardless of faction standing, unless they targeted you with the master safe turned off, i.e. if they targeted you with hot weapons. The radar blip that targeted you would then go to red (accompanied by a brief klaxon alarm). The blip would remain red until the ship it represents A) leaves the sector or B) is destroyed.

If another player damages you without targeting you, they will also go to red until they are destroyed or leave the sector, as though they had targeted you with the master safe turned off. Bots would also appear green on your radar unless they move to engage you. You could still target another player without declaring yourself hostile on radar, so long as your master safe was on.

With the above system a threat on the radar is not based on faction standing, which can be confusing in cases when the standings between two players are not reciprocated, but based on the immediate danger of active weapons. There are several advantages to this system. First of all, a player will never find themselves in the confusing situation of being attacked by a green blip defbot. The instant a defbot moved to engage them it would go to red on radar. Second of all, a bot or a player with a negative faction standing with your government that nonetheless has no intention of attacking you would appear green (until they targeted you with hot weapons). Just because I have a negative faction standing with another nation does not mean I am automatically hostile to all players of that nation. Faction standing for any particular player would still be readily accessible by targeting them and using the player info key, but this system would be helpful for identifying immediate and unequivocal threats. If another player, *any* player, targeted you with hot weapons, it would be a simple matter of hitting 'x' and arming you own weapons to get your guard up.

There are however several disadvantages to this system. First of all, the "master safe" switch would have to be implemented. It's pretty straightforward, but still, it would be one more thing to explain to a newbie. Second of all, I could accidentally declare myself hostile by targeting another friendly player with hot weapons. This could be partially solved by automatically turning on the master safe every time a player enters a new sector, and in guarded sectors issuing a warning to players that turn off their master safe. ("Attention <player x>, you are in a <nation> guarded sector and weapons fire is not permitted, please disarm your weapons immediately). Third, a cunning pirate could claim to be non-hostile, sneak up on a player, and activate their weapons at the last second. I would not call this cheating, merely a dirty, cunning trick. Players would have to be slightly more judicious in checking another player's faction standing using the 'k' key, especially in an unguarded sector. I don't think this would be a problem unique to this system, however, since one can always claim to be non-hostile and then stab someone in the back.

The "hot weapons" system is simpler and more straightforward in identifying hostile targets than faction standing, would avoid adding extra colors to the radar, and would also avoid the confusing case of being attacked by a green radar blip.