Forums » Suggestions
I keep hearing people clamoring for more content. My question is what is "content” Can you give some concrete examples of what you're expecting? Or are we using a definition similar to the legal definition of obscenity? "We can't define it but we know it when we see it".
There are limits to the computer interface. I wouldn't expect you to be able to actually query the mission computer with info. Like “psst! I saw Darkcreed camping by a worm hole in Dau “ you’d have to use a menu system with stock responses 1) I wish to report a pirate sighting 2) Never mind
And when people say that want missions that aren’t so tedious what are they requesting?
For example:
You take a spy mission, find the CEO and return to base. This triggers a new objective; send datapad with info to person on another station. You are now a courier with a timed mission, succeed and you trigger a strike force appear to help escort the next itani cargo transport, fail and a group of NPC pirates attack the itani transport ship. If you fail you could try to round up a group of people to protect the ship because you realize pirates are heading to attack to next transport.
Now some of these actions could be dictated by the mission computer (hunt for CEO, send data pad, generate NPC bots) but others are generated by the player (assemble a posse to protect the transport)
The fact you have to travel back and forth could be considered tedious. The fact the mission has multiple stages could also be considered tedious.
There are limits to the computer interface. I wouldn't expect you to be able to actually query the mission computer with info. Like “psst! I saw Darkcreed camping by a worm hole in Dau “ you’d have to use a menu system with stock responses 1) I wish to report a pirate sighting 2) Never mind
And when people say that want missions that aren’t so tedious what are they requesting?
For example:
You take a spy mission, find the CEO and return to base. This triggers a new objective; send datapad with info to person on another station. You are now a courier with a timed mission, succeed and you trigger a strike force appear to help escort the next itani cargo transport, fail and a group of NPC pirates attack the itani transport ship. If you fail you could try to round up a group of people to protect the ship because you realize pirates are heading to attack to next transport.
Now some of these actions could be dictated by the mission computer (hunt for CEO, send data pad, generate NPC bots) but others are generated by the player (assemble a posse to protect the transport)
The fact you have to travel back and forth could be considered tedious. The fact the mission has multiple stages could also be considered tedious.
Stuff like the current escort missions. That's content. Buggy content to be sure, but content. Stuff that advances the storyline and makes players feel like they're affecting the universe, even if in a small way.
Oh. Hell. Yes. I've been waiting for this.
In my opinion, content is a game's soul. It is the stuff that makes the universe feel like a real place.
-It is story.
Each station should have a bit of text as a description, letting players who care know the history of the station. A paragraph would do. I'm sure there are players out there (myself included) who would leap at the chance to write station descriptions.
-It is age.
All of the current stations look like they were simultaneously designed and deployed by the same architect and company, which I know is not the case. Stations closer to the core systems of the nations would probably look look older, with newer parts tacked on. Stations in battle zones would have scarring from raids long past. Pirate stations would be mishmashes of ships and tech as they could acquire it, perhaps the rear half of a frigate soldered onto a rotating windmill wheel or something.
-It is failure. The current universe looks like nothing has ever gone wrong. Every station that was ever deployed thrived. Every mining outpost has hit a neverending supply of ore. Why not have abandoned stations, or perhaps when you go to a remote outpost, you can't repair your spankin' new Valkyrie because they don't have the tools. This adds individuality to the universe, and makes one station seem different from all of the others around it. Wormholes change, and like the ghost towns of the old american west, sometimes the world leaves places behind.
-All in all, it's making the universe matter. Why go from one area of the current galaxy to another, when all you'll find is a station that is virtually identical, offers the same items for sale, the same missions, the same hazards. That, and not the graphics is what turns people off of a game, whether they admit it or not. What you've got is a very pretty scaffold, now it's time to build the house.
In my opinion, content is a game's soul. It is the stuff that makes the universe feel like a real place.
-It is story.
Each station should have a bit of text as a description, letting players who care know the history of the station. A paragraph would do. I'm sure there are players out there (myself included) who would leap at the chance to write station descriptions.
-It is age.
All of the current stations look like they were simultaneously designed and deployed by the same architect and company, which I know is not the case. Stations closer to the core systems of the nations would probably look look older, with newer parts tacked on. Stations in battle zones would have scarring from raids long past. Pirate stations would be mishmashes of ships and tech as they could acquire it, perhaps the rear half of a frigate soldered onto a rotating windmill wheel or something.
-It is failure. The current universe looks like nothing has ever gone wrong. Every station that was ever deployed thrived. Every mining outpost has hit a neverending supply of ore. Why not have abandoned stations, or perhaps when you go to a remote outpost, you can't repair your spankin' new Valkyrie because they don't have the tools. This adds individuality to the universe, and makes one station seem different from all of the others around it. Wormholes change, and like the ghost towns of the old american west, sometimes the world leaves places behind.
-All in all, it's making the universe matter. Why go from one area of the current galaxy to another, when all you'll find is a station that is virtually identical, offers the same items for sale, the same missions, the same hazards. That, and not the graphics is what turns people off of a game, whether they admit it or not. What you've got is a very pretty scaffold, now it's time to build the house.
One thing that I think will be important (that really hasn't been addressed) is the passage of time. When there's a war (especially between the Serco and the Itani), military technology advances very quickly. As time passes, more weapons and ships should get developed, and get added to higher license levels, all older weapons and ships drop a level, to address obsolecence. Maybe once a month, maybe at a different rate. But this would be a great opportunity to see a game evolve like this.
well, i was gonna comment fairly extensively on this, but ctishman pretty much nailed it. I will add one or two more items,
-it is personality.
The differnet groups need to "feel" different. A serco space station should have a different atmosphere than an itani space station. Currently they look different from the outside, but thats about it. equipment needs to be availible at (slightly) different levels based on the philosophy of the faction/nation involved. Missions need to reflect the ideals of the different groups.
- it is confusion
Everything storywise in the new universe so far is cut and dry. Life isn't. Different subgroups within a nation working towards their own ends, Corporations waging subtle wars with each other, using economics or missiles depending on the situation. Taking a mission for someone who claims to be working for one group but in reality is working against them.
-it is personality.
The differnet groups need to "feel" different. A serco space station should have a different atmosphere than an itani space station. Currently they look different from the outside, but thats about it. equipment needs to be availible at (slightly) different levels based on the philosophy of the faction/nation involved. Missions need to reflect the ideals of the different groups.
- it is confusion
Everything storywise in the new universe so far is cut and dry. Life isn't. Different subgroups within a nation working towards their own ends, Corporations waging subtle wars with each other, using economics or missiles depending on the situation. Taking a mission for someone who claims to be working for one group but in reality is working against them.
I forgot:
-It is mystery
Right now, the barest newbie can look at the universe and see everything there is to see. Every system, every sector, every location of every kind of bot. This makes the players feel like they're drowning in the universe. Plus, if there's nothing to explore, why bother?
On the galaxy map, try showing only the core sectors owned by their government to newcomers. These are matters of public record for them. Beyond the borders is unknown space. Blank until they explore it.
On the system map and outside of government sectors, why not show only wormholes? This gives players an idea of where they need to go. When they take a mission, the destination sector will be visible and highlighted, even in the galaxy map, but the intermediate sectors will not be. Thus, by taking trade missions, players will learn the locations of most commonly-used stations as they reach them. Of course, locations could also spread via word of mouth.
-It is mystery
Right now, the barest newbie can look at the universe and see everything there is to see. Every system, every sector, every location of every kind of bot. This makes the players feel like they're drowning in the universe. Plus, if there's nothing to explore, why bother?
On the galaxy map, try showing only the core sectors owned by their government to newcomers. These are matters of public record for them. Beyond the borders is unknown space. Blank until they explore it.
On the system map and outside of government sectors, why not show only wormholes? This gives players an idea of where they need to go. When they take a mission, the destination sector will be visible and highlighted, even in the galaxy map, but the intermediate sectors will not be. Thus, by taking trade missions, players will learn the locations of most commonly-used stations as they reach them. Of course, locations could also spread via word of mouth.
ctishman:
Seconded on all of that
:)
As for content... I think that players should be able to help make content. I know about dynamic trading and stuff... but I feel there could always be more things players could do to permenately change the universe.
Seconded on all of that
:)
As for content... I think that players should be able to help make content. I know about dynamic trading and stuff... but I feel there could always be more things players could do to permenately change the universe.
Random events that aren't forced timesinks(storms) or necessery involve breaking stuff (hive queens).
Example: Carl http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/6348
wink wink :D
Example: Carl http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/6348
wink wink :D
I really like ctishman's "fog of war" idea. It'll bring about the ability to sell map data between players and stuff. Like, getting good standing with Serco lets you purchase a Serco govt. map at one of the capital stations. Sercos won't know anything about Itani territory, Itanis won't know anything about Serco territory. The UIT gets to play medium.
Live updatable maps have been mentioned before. This would be pretty nice.
Live updatable maps have been mentioned before. This would be pretty nice.
see post http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/5539 as an example
By 'content' I do not refer to missions, although the game can perhaps benefit from a few more of those. I refer to the staples that many experienced MMORPG players have come to know and expect:
1) Resource gathering.
2) Crafting.
3) Trading.
4) Looting.
I hear that mining is on the way. That's good. That will give players something else to do if they get tired of fighting. You have a form of mining in the game right now, but it is tied to the mission system and is kind of limiting.
Crafting usually goes hand in hand with resource gathering. A significant minority of MMORPG players like to craft their own weapons and other items rather than buy them. It appeals to the building instinct in all of us. Just like in real life some of us like to build our own computers and hotrods--or computer games--people like to build stuff in their virtual lives as well. In most MMORPGs, crafted items are usually better than vendor items, which provides an incentive to learn how to craft and creates a market for the needed materials.
Player trading is another MMORPG staple. Whats the use in learning to build cool items if you cannot trade your handiwork to other players? In some MMORPGs, though, trading has allowed some players to get very, very rich, which drives up prices and freezes poorer players out of the market for some player-made goods. The economy can get out of control if appropriate checks and balances are not put into place. I don't think Vendetta is ready for a complete crafting and trading system just yet. Crafting, in particular, can be a very complex system to implement, but perhaps it can be introduced over time, as the developers have hinted at in an interview.
Perhaps the easiest change to make would be to expand the loot tables. It would be nice if from time to time a bot or NPC ship would drop a unique weapon or device that is slightly more powerful than the standard fare. That would give players a 'eureka' moment and perhaps make hunting a little more fun.
1) Resource gathering.
2) Crafting.
3) Trading.
4) Looting.
I hear that mining is on the way. That's good. That will give players something else to do if they get tired of fighting. You have a form of mining in the game right now, but it is tied to the mission system and is kind of limiting.
Crafting usually goes hand in hand with resource gathering. A significant minority of MMORPG players like to craft their own weapons and other items rather than buy them. It appeals to the building instinct in all of us. Just like in real life some of us like to build our own computers and hotrods--or computer games--people like to build stuff in their virtual lives as well. In most MMORPGs, crafted items are usually better than vendor items, which provides an incentive to learn how to craft and creates a market for the needed materials.
Player trading is another MMORPG staple. Whats the use in learning to build cool items if you cannot trade your handiwork to other players? In some MMORPGs, though, trading has allowed some players to get very, very rich, which drives up prices and freezes poorer players out of the market for some player-made goods. The economy can get out of control if appropriate checks and balances are not put into place. I don't think Vendetta is ready for a complete crafting and trading system just yet. Crafting, in particular, can be a very complex system to implement, but perhaps it can be introduced over time, as the developers have hinted at in an interview.
Perhaps the easiest change to make would be to expand the loot tables. It would be nice if from time to time a bot or NPC ship would drop a unique weapon or device that is slightly more powerful than the standard fare. That would give players a 'eureka' moment and perhaps make hunting a little more fun.
Along the lines of ctishman's post; an interesting universe is key. Having points of interest for players to explore, like huge asteroids with a network of cracks running through it or a shattered comet or different unique universe spots tends to create its own content. What I mean by this is that players will naturally congregate, explore, and play with unique terrain and points of interest, and this in and of itself makes the game more immersive.
I agree with ctishman, adding story, feeling and generations to things is a good way.
For missions, I had a ramble some months ago that cover a lot of my thoughts still :
http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/5442
Not all of the story has to be dropped at once, putting it into missions, giving subcontext, adding mystery and development is a good idea.
playing out characters who don't know the intrications of the relationships between the factions as well.
Also, some sort of "beginners folder" about the universe, not necessarily covering all the niceties and reasons, but telling you that TPG is the #1 ship manufacturer of the universe, but is closely rallied by the Orion groups heavy arms shipment division, both are dependant on Axia to deliver state of the art weaponry and robotic units..... Will be enough hints that if you try and consolidate both orion and TPG, you're in for trouble. ;)
For missions, I had a ramble some months ago that cover a lot of my thoughts still :
http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/5442
Not all of the story has to be dropped at once, putting it into missions, giving subcontext, adding mystery and development is a good idea.
playing out characters who don't know the intrications of the relationships between the factions as well.
Also, some sort of "beginners folder" about the universe, not necessarily covering all the niceties and reasons, but telling you that TPG is the #1 ship manufacturer of the universe, but is closely rallied by the Orion groups heavy arms shipment division, both are dependant on Axia to deliver state of the art weaponry and robotic units..... Will be enough hints that if you try and consolidate both orion and TPG, you're in for trouble. ;)
heres some good ideas for content that vendetta is lacking in..
Immersion..
Right now, Wheres the immersion, in games such as ENB, EVE, WOW, etc. they all make an attempt to immerse you in the storyline, while in vendetta, I see no form of immersion in any way, save for the ships there is no difference between the factions besides their NAMES.
Community..
I have only seen a few players actually out there in the game besides myself, I am aware that the vendetta universe is a big one, but maybe we could somehow make some places more popular to go to? Every game has a popular meeting place, in SWG its the starport, in ENB its joves fury, etc. Vendetta? all the places are the same! No incentive to go meet with others at another station when all you need is at the one you are at! Plus, maybe we could have some "Raids?" such as, the frigate? that was an excellent example.
Personization..
People like to express themselves, no kidding, in vendetta our only form of an avatar, a representation of ourself (or who we want to be) in the game universe. Kinda hard to when your vulture looks excactly like the next one save for a colour. Maybe an external difference between ship variants? Perhaps that pretty picture of our weapons could mean something, have that show up on our ship! I dont care if its a cheezy 2d sprite on the nose of my ship I want something to look a little different from the next centurion save for a stripe colour!
To me, the biggest things people are looking for in a MMO is...
Gameplay
Immersion
Communtiy
Self expression
Good tech/GM support
You already have the last and first one, work on the other three!
Immersion..
Right now, Wheres the immersion, in games such as ENB, EVE, WOW, etc. they all make an attempt to immerse you in the storyline, while in vendetta, I see no form of immersion in any way, save for the ships there is no difference between the factions besides their NAMES.
Community..
I have only seen a few players actually out there in the game besides myself, I am aware that the vendetta universe is a big one, but maybe we could somehow make some places more popular to go to? Every game has a popular meeting place, in SWG its the starport, in ENB its joves fury, etc. Vendetta? all the places are the same! No incentive to go meet with others at another station when all you need is at the one you are at! Plus, maybe we could have some "Raids?" such as, the frigate? that was an excellent example.
Personization..
People like to express themselves, no kidding, in vendetta our only form of an avatar, a representation of ourself (or who we want to be) in the game universe. Kinda hard to when your vulture looks excactly like the next one save for a colour. Maybe an external difference between ship variants? Perhaps that pretty picture of our weapons could mean something, have that show up on our ship! I dont care if its a cheezy 2d sprite on the nose of my ship I want something to look a little different from the next centurion save for a stripe colour!
To me, the biggest things people are looking for in a MMO is...
Gameplay
Immersion
Communtiy
Self expression
Good tech/GM support
You already have the last and first one, work on the other three!
I also agree with the idea that the game can benefit from the inclusion of a few raids. Raids are another MMORPG staple and they are great fun. For those who do not know, a raid happens when a group of players attempts to defeat a high-level NPC or MOB boss and his minions. These guys are usually too tough for solo players or even small groups. This encourages teamplay and often leads to the discovery of novel battle tactics. The reward is often a high-level item that is then lottoed to see who in the group gets it. The MOB boss usually only spawns once a day or once every X number of days, or perhaps it can even be triggered by a mission.
We used to have 'raids' when we had the frig, but now, there's nothing.
Rascal: See this thread:
http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/6630
I think it's a start to what you propose, and one that seems to be implementable with the current AI and game structure.
http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/6630
I think it's a start to what you propose, and one that seems to be implementable with the current AI and game structure.
There is some good stuff showeing up here. I got the impression from previous post that we were working under different definitions for "crafting". Maybe some of these suggestions will be addressed in time for the release.
I'm fairly sure that missinos can take into account what ship you currently have and items in your inventory. There was a 'Black Market Mission' in the 19 sector universe where you took a special ship, say a Maud, and traded it plus 100k for another special ship, like a Prom.
This way making engine modifications, adding more weapons slots, removing mass etc could be easily accomplished. You could tke your stock buss and have another two small ports added to it for 50k, turning your stock bus into a bus'o'd00m. Or something like that. The same could go for weapons.
This way making engine modifications, adding more weapons slots, removing mass etc could be easily accomplished. You could tke your stock buss and have another two small ports added to it for 50k, turning your stock bus into a bus'o'd00m. Or something like that. The same could go for weapons.
One thing I would like to add to this list is Group Trade Missions! See this thread for an example:
http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/6352
Trading is a lonely sport right now, being able to get a group of buddies together and form a convoy would be a lot of fun.
http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/6352
Trading is a lonely sport right now, being able to get a group of buddies together and form a convoy would be a lot of fun.