The mission tree in this game is utterly incomplete. It's frustrating that there's nowhere to progress in the game's missions and that each update seems to avoid this horrendous shortcoming. Also, the explosive ship mission is horribly flawed, and it could be easily fixed by causing the explosive ship to only destroy the entire sector upon being DESTROYED, not simply hit.

Forget about capital ships, forget about maneuverability; if the game's STORY is gradually expanded, all these things will arise at certain points, allowing add-ons to the game to correspond to progress in the universe. Straighten out your priorities.

... And thus spake Troll the Nth.
(Forum Baddies:1-7)

The explosive ship mission is known to be flawed, but is easily avoided for the moment so it's not of the highest priority. It will be fixed as time allows.

A larger, more complete mission tree is in development. It was made clear when the current one was rolled out that it was simplistic at best. The larger tree does rely on some other features and fixes, however.

Balance has been a back-burner issue for a very long time, and in the opinion of the devs (and many, many users) the time is ripe to address it. This is an issue that impacts everyone, and the devs need to maximize their time and efforts wherever possible and reasonable.

While your comments are appreciated, and your opinion is respected, the events listed in In Progress for Monday are well underway (this being Sunday)and are not likely to be altered.

Missions would be good but I have done quite a few 'missions' that were dreamed up by others players and had nothing to do with the computer. This included mining escorts, group mining, group cargo transport, escaping from pirates, shooting at pirates, etc. These events were enabled by the diverse nature of the natural world of vendetta, the distribution of ore, differences of prices on items, the difference between 'unmonitored' and 'monitored' space, the different way different factions work, especially Corvus' capital, & etc. These had nothing to do with prescripted 'dungeons'. The players are making up some of their own stories.

This should serve as a definitive example on how not to make a constructive suggestion.

Rewrite: "The mission tree in this game is incomplete. It would be better if one could progress in the game's missions. I am sure that the devs are aware of this, but I am courious as to why updates do not seem to focus on this problem?

Also, this may not be the place to report it, but the explosive ship mission has a bug in it. I think that it could be easily fixed by causing the explosive ship to blow up only upon being destroyed, not simply being hit.

I grant you that capital ships, maneuverability balancing would be nice, but if the game's strory is gradually expanded, all these things will arise at certain points, allowing add-ons to the game to correspond to progress in the universe. I think the devs should make creation of new story content thier top priority."

My reply: About most of this you are absolutely correct. True RPG's hinge most critically on the concept of story, and very few things would go further toward improving the games content than an improved mission tree. If you were to talk to the devs, I'm sure that one of the things that they would list as one of the worst problems with the game as it is is the rather simple missions. The missions currently in the game were to be temporary missions for testing during the games alpha stage. I'm sure that there are plans to upgrade them at some point in the future.

So, its a reasonable question to ask why not make it a priority now. One answer is that there is absolutely nothing in the game which is more time consuming than the creation of story content. The developers want to get Vendetta up to the sort of sophisticated game that they set out to create as soon as possible, but they also need to be making money sometime soon. To accomplish this, they have to prioritize based on the things which they can do quickly.

Another answer is that you are just flat out wrong. This is not a MUSH or pen and paper RPG. Creation of mission content will not automatically cause other things like capital ships and game balance to arise like Athena springing from the forhead of Zeus. As a game with a visual component, Vendetta is much more equivalent to a play or a movie in that before the story can take place props have to be created. Actually, as a game, Vendetta is far more dependent on 'props' - sections of code explaining what happens - than even a movie or a play is. You can improvise in a play. A game cannot improvise for itself, nor can a player imagine the things that arent' there because the player himself must interact with them. Thus, almost any kind of story you would write - extent - depends to some extent on the existance of certain kinds of content. I know, because I've tried listing some simple story ideas for the game. If you think otherwise, then I suggest you try the excercise for yourself.

Finally, its not enough to just say 'I think this is wrong'. Ideally, you should also be trying to explain how you think it could be made right, and ideally in as simple of a fashion as possible.

Celebrim said: "Finally, its not enough to just say 'I think this is wrong'. Ideally, you should also be trying to explain how you think it could be made right, and ideally in as simple of a fashion as possible."

With all due respect, this is simply not true. I have heard this echoed before on these boards and the suggestion is that you have no right to complain if you can't suggest a fix. I don't agree. New users may have no idea how to fix the game, but very well may feel they don't like a certain aspect of it. Those opinions, as much as possible, should be given some merit.

That's my opinion. I could be wrong.

I must agree with original poster. I preordered because we've been promised new missions and content. When everything was exactly the same as before after reset, i was a little bit put off.

I remember (and you can search for it) many people said exactly the same thing 3 months ago - current missions are placeholders, they are just framework to test out the mission system, when game launches there will be new missions that fit in the story and so on.

It was all misleading and even though it was done by users and not devs, none of the devs or even forum moderator denied these allegations.

good missions need to go in damn fast.

alright:

Celkan,

I suppose anything other than blind praise for the game warrants breaking of the message board's unofficial code of polite conduct in your eyes, and well, thanks for your contribution to the discussion! (heavy sarcasm)

--

Celebrim (who actually put some thought into his response),

I can see where you're coming from, and I agree that the graphical and numerical content must be in place before any mission TREE can be finalized in this game (this is different from individual missions, as I will explain later). That being said, it is possible to approach the game from a storyline perspective, and stop along the way to create the content necessary for those missions to exist.

Since the creation of ships, weapons, space stations, and other "props" in an actual universe could not be expected to all manifest at once, it is entirely possible for these props and missions to arrive in chunks. ie, a new ship that would require a strain of missions to be completed could be implemented at the exact same time as the strain of missions was added, or as the last mission in the strain was added.

example, buying ship S requires mission J.

To get to mission J you must complete A->B->C->D->...->I->J

it would be perfectly reasonable to release an update which includes only missions A through I, while the ship S was still incomplete; the missions A through I, if well written, would at first hint at and eventually give details on the ship supposedly "in construction."

Given the frequency of updates in this game, it would be entirely reasonable to assume that when the ship and final mission were available in the game's next update, most players in vendetta wouldn't even be on mission I, waiting impatiently for the next mission!

This concept can be broadened to allow any storyline additions to precede any "prop" additions to the game. Therefore, I'm quite sure I'm not flat out wrong.

If my original suggestion was a "perfect example of how not to make a constructive suggestion" because of its bluntness or lack of depth, I agree and apologize. Otherwise, I'd put you in the same uninformed boat as Celkan.

I agree that we need more and better missions, but in all honesty i don't feal like the intent of this game is to have the best missions posible. I personaly view missions as a way to get the nesisary resorses and experience to make my own fun threw player interaction. After all missions are like a job, you do them to get what you need but when you want to have fun you do something else (of coarse the more fun the job is the better). If you're tired of the missions try some PVP, or some pirating, or whatever you want to do just don't rely soly on the mission tree to provide content.

And for the record i've seen some changes to the missions since i have been playing (minor changes as they are).

"..I remember (and you can search for it) many people said exactly the same thing 3 months ago - current missions are placeholders, they are just framework to test out the mission system, when game launches there will be new missions that fit in the story and so on.

It was all misleading and even though it was done by users and not devs, none of the devs or even forum moderator denied these allegations."

Actually wehat was said is that there would be new content, including new missions. Nobody said they would magically appear immediately upon release. In fact, it was made quite clear that the whole reason for releasing at the time was to get some money together to continue to develop content. The content has been coming. Exactly the same? How about mining? What about the bounty system and bounty hunting? News? Stuff has been happening all along. Nobody has lied or misled you.

I've never said that nothing is being done as we speak. I respect devs and their work, I've been here since very early alpha stage. However, all these new things you've mentioned appeared very recently. And there are still very few actual meaningful missions that have anything to do with the story.

Pfft, I want vendetta to do well just as you do, FM, no need to snap at me straight away.

" The content has been coming. Exactly the same? How about mining? " If you read my post in context you might gather that I was speaking about actual release. And yes, I believe I am correct when I say that there were no new missions when the game kicked off people who didn't pay.

I'm sorry that I've come off as snappish. I was offended that the devs or I would be implicated in some sort of misleading behaviour. I have read your posts carefully. The game was released in early November. That's "very recently" in my book. I don't recall anyone of note stating that there would be new missions immediately upon release. Had I been aware that people were claiming that a new mission tree would blossom immeditely upon release, I would have corrected them. I'm sorry that it hasn't been what you were expecting yet.

Also note that In Progress includes discussion of story-related missions that include the captiol ship:

"Longer Range And Beyond The 20th:

We're currently working towards reviving our old capital ship"
"In any event, you should see the cap ship appearing as a named Serco flagship at some point in the not-too-distant future. The idea, at present, is to make it a centerpiece for Serco/Itani set of conflict missions.. the Serco will help escort their ship on patrols of the borders, the Itani will have missions to attack it."

As someone relatively new to VO, I have noticed a number of people on these boards who like to post in a voice that would have us believe they have an inside track to what is happening with VO. But from what I understand, there are only 4 people at VO and all of their names appear in RED when they post here. Any other posts, regardless of how informed they may sound, are nothing more than opinion and/or conjecture.

Unfortunately, non-VO members who pretend to be insiders, inadvertently muddy the waters and over time it gets difficult to recall if what one heard was an official position or simple speculation.

The one thing that seems be lacking is a place where one can find an accurate historical perspective on official progress and plans for the game. The "In Progress" page is good, but it apparently gets rewritten for each new entry. Perhaps what we need is a forum named "Official" that maintains postings for the in progress updates and planned enhancements, and can only be posted to by the red guys.

Upon rereading the above, I'm not sure how relevant it is to this thread, but will post it anyway FWIW.

I understand that story might not be very high priority, but right now there is very little reason for you to play. Either you become a pirate or a hunter (to justify the kills), or you just buy and sell/mine stuff, which is very boring. And there is no objective beyond it. Make a few traders extremely expensive and with VERY large cargo holds, this will make things more interesting, as they will require players to protect them. Also, make trading a lot more profitable for items that cross gray space or are in a different faction. And I agree: there should be a cap on how high you can get with other faction standings (but not with corporations). Serco and UIT should never go beyond "Respects", UIT could go up to 600 or so. Unless you renounce your current faction and join another.

Other harder suggestions to keep the game interesting: missions like CTC in a smaller scale should be happening all the time, in different systems. Raids, protection, exploring and taking pictures of enemy bases, or ships.

objectifier: Since I may be one of those people you think is speaking with a voice which you believe indicates an inside track on future development, allow me to clarify.

This 'voice' which you think indicates an inside track on future development, in fact indicates nothing more than the accurate historical perspective on the progress and development of the game which you desire. Some of us have been here a while, and have read more than a few threads and to be frank have (because the developers have been very generous in making themselves accessible) had more than a few conversations with the developers.

I don't claim to have any special knowledge that anyone else whose been here for two years or so and been active in the forums wouldn't have. There are some hear that really do have inside knowledge, but typically they keep quiet about it.

Yes, my posts are nothing but opinion and conjecture - because the thinking of the devs is prone to change and they don't update me when they do so except when they update you - but my opinions are relatively well informed ones. If you don't like that, I'm sorry. What I'm trying to do is provide you with information it might otherwise take you several days or weeks reading through the forums to find (and some of which is now lost to the archives anyway).

While we are on the subject of misconceptions you may have, I did not say that people did not have the right to complain. Ones 'rights' are not in question, but rather whether how one chooses to excercise those rights is constructive. What I said that if you are merely venting your frustration about a problem which is well known to everyone, without offering any sort of approach (much less a novel approach) to solving that problem, as far as suggestions go its rather unconstructive. You may have a right to vent and denigrate the game as it is, but doing so doesn't make anything any better. If you have any other impression, I apologize for being unclear.

Dave_h: Wanna know why I was sarcastic? We hear this complaint Every. Single. Day. New threads about this topic appear Every. Single. Day. It gets frigging annoying after a while. You were looking for someone to be sarcastic, and be glad it was me, and not Genka or someone else.

Ho there! I resent that!
:P

Are there any constructive comments to be added, or is it time to lock it up and go home?

Celebrim: Perhaps this is simply a difference of perspective. I can certainly see where those have been around for awhile have a familial attachment to the game and the developers, but that is not the case for everyone. For me, and I'll bet for many others, this is business -- the entertainment business. I pay money for VO to make me happy. If they don't, I have the right to complain in any way I choose.

While that may not set well with the "old-timers" who get tired of the same old complaint threads, if I were the developers (and BTW I am a software developer), I would want to hear those complaints whether it was the first time or 10,000th. How else would I hear those complains and suggestions if not in this forum?