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Dog fighting strategies

Jun 06, 2006 ktchinn link
I am at a point where Atremis Collectors are too easy and Aputech-5s and Tycorps are too hard. After much advice I have started learning to fight in physics mode. Can you post any helpful hits on how to work on my dog fighting skills? (yes I read the strategy guide but it just explained the modes not really any strategies).

My skills are 4/4/3/2/0 . I generally fly a Ragnarok using a Neutron Plasma MKIII, 2 Ion blasters MKIII, and two Plasma Devastators. I typically use my joystick which can easily assign 12 buttons, mini joystick on top, and slider for thrusters.

Should I go back to an Armored Hornet. If so what would be a good mix of weapons?

How do you change directions in physics mode (stafe keys?)?

I do try to lure the bots out to 3k so I can jump if need be but usually they follow me in packs. :p Thanks for your input.
Jun 06, 2006 tianzi link
OK try this, use your strafe keys and use FA on, take a light fighter (if you are itani use the IBG or Serco SVG these are some of the best ships in the game). Take these out against Tycorps otherwise, if you want to be real lazy, use a Gat. Turret Hog with either Homers or flares. Do the same thing, strafe like crazy. A GT with auto-aim will easily kill the T-corps without too much effort as long as you strafe. One last word on Joysticks and stafeing, assign aswd for strafing on your keyboard, use your JS to keep the nose on the target.
Jun 06, 2006 Cunjo link
Ragnarok is a good heavy hitter, and my ship of choice, however, it takes a LOT of energy management if you want to fly it with all energy weapons (I sometimes use 3x Neut II/2x Megaposi and a heavy batt, but it fires for < 1 second and needs > 10 to recharge)

Rags are best used with a combination of energy weapons (Gauss or AGT work well) and ordinance (Flares and Jackhammers)

That said, a ragnarok is too slow and vulnerable to take on the higher hive bots without a large amount of experience or lots of money for ammo. It's better reserved for PvP and quick engagements with fewer opponents.

Best way to learn to fight the hive is in a vulture with Neutron Blasters. Strafe downward or upward (using f or r by default) and roll (this works BEST with a joystick that has three axis of rotation for pitch roll and yaw via a twist grip, otherwise you need to use the roll keys and your maneuvers are more limited) Then just get close to your target (close the distance with w) and open fire. Once your battery runs down, back up while maintaining the roll and strafe to keep them from hitting you as you recharge.

PS. Guardians are bitches to kill and don't give good XP anyway. Look instead for Dentek, TyCorp or Prosus Assaults.
Jun 06, 2006 bojansplash link
Try to find a mentor ingame, some of the older players will prolly teach you the ropes.
Jun 06, 2006 avirulence link
Yeah, try Bojan.
Jun 06, 2006 GRAIG link
cunjo: "PS. Guardians are bitches to kill and don't give good XP anyway. Look instead for Dentek, TyCorp or Prosus Assaults."

Don't forget the Valent AK 47 Assaults they give 300 XP and they fight like the tycorps ( exept that they got neut instead of phase blasters)
Jun 06, 2006 ktchinn link
Thanks I will try to use a vulture tonight. I was also trying to work up my hvy wpn skill to get the disruptors MKIIs but that is the least of my concerns atm.

My joystick does have rotation.

I will try the tycorp. I though I remembered them having a green mchine gun like beam that never seems to run out of energy. :p

How does the mentor thing work? Can (s)he see what I am targeting also? It would be neat if I could see their key/mouse/joystick inputs to learn the maneuvers.

Thanks guys see you in game tonight.
Jun 06, 2006 LeberMac link
Agreed, ktchinn.

You'll never get good dogfighting skills starting out using a Ragnarok.

Force yourself to fly the Vult (Corvus or SVG variants preferably), equip it with the best energy weapons you can get, and then head into a bot-infested sector. Like GRAIG said, look for Dentek, TyCorp, or Prosus assault bots. They give good XP without being too much of a pain to kill.

The main skill to master with killing bots is to hit them while you're still adjusting to your position. My tactic for killing the Assault-type bots:

This works for one-on-one really well, two-on-one pretty good, but for three-on-one or more, I suggest not using the single-strafe dodge at ALL.

Turn Fight Assist on and set your power to about halfway. Strafe HARD in one direction, and use AutoAim to land a string of shots onto the bot. There's a point where the bots will adjust to your strafe as you're fighting. Their shots will lag behind you, and then they will adjust and fire ahead to meet your vector.

When you see them adjust their firing, throw in the slightest of rolls, just enough to make them miss. They will lag behind in their firing again. A stray shot may hit you. Don't panic. Quickly reacquire your target and get in a couple more shots before they can adjust their firing pattern.


My tactic for killing Guardian-type bots:

Turn Flight Assist off and circle-strafe your bot opponent, much as you would in any other FPS shooter game. However, add in a bit of roll about every 3 seconds, just enough to force the bots to adjust their firing pattern. Guardians are easy to hit, but take a while to kill with energy. Be patient. The main thing to remember is to stay farther away from them to avoid the AGT and gauss shots.

When guardians are in-sector, make sure to watch your 6 - they like to sneak up on you and open up with everything they've got.

That's about it. Someone else chime in with a better strategy.
Jun 06, 2006 piglamamonkey link
Just my 2c: you don't need to roll at all against bots like tycorp, valent or prosus. If you don't, you'll save lots of botting time, cause rolling screw your aim.
Jun 06, 2006 Cunjo link
Pigalamonkey: at close range, the roll won't mess your aim provided that you have a joystick for aiming. one of the best tactics for those assaults is to get close and roll really slowly while strafing hard. It has the same sort of effect as what Leber suggested, only you don't need to deal with a jerky aim adjustment or mistiming your roll.

If you can get to within 40m (there's no need to be afraid of the assault bots as long as you have a lightweight ship and can keep up your strafe and roll - you can get as close as you want, though it can sometimes be nerve-wracking) then you'll have no trouble at all landing a steady stream of fire.

If you need to get up your heavy weapons license, get a warthog or wraith and do the same thing, only equip a l-port weapon to use in finishing off the bots (you get the XP for the last weapon to hit the target, so you can weaken them with neutrons)
Jun 06, 2006 softy2 link
(a) Take any hornet, armed with 4 neutron blasters of anytype.

(b) Go to a Tycorps Assault only sector.

(c) They attack in pairs. Find a couple.

(d) Rotate you ship until you are targeting the LEFT one, with his buddy on your RIGHT.

(e) Turn FA off. Turn ON Autoaim.

(f) Strafe LEFT and UP.

(g) Aim about halfway to the TOP RIGHT of your Targeting Recepticle, still keeping in Yellow. Usually, the bot hover between 100-150m from you.

(h) Fire in bursts of 5 shots until the bot is dead.

(i) Do likewise for his buddy.

(j) Profit!!!!

Note :

1) Don't get sandwiched (i.e. one at your back, one in front)
2) Don't fall asleep (yes, I once nearly did).
3) Don't ask me why this mechanical method only works with hornets...must be because of some magic window of ship characteristics. I've botted literally hundreds of tycorps each run. Satisfied customers of the Holden Caulfield's Five-Fingered Blossom Botting Technique includes Alamar and many others.

EDIT : In due course, you'll find that the most efficient way of botting tycorps is to fly a centurion (any will do) with a Plasma HX. Sadly, this experience is brought to you by many many hours of lonely botting to bring many of my RP alts to PvP levels for, uh, "events".
Jun 06, 2006 thurisaz link
it's a personal-preference thing but I'm more for plasma weapons myself; I recommend all new players try gausses once they can get them
Jun 06, 2006 TRS link
The controls:
This game enjoys 6 degrees of freedom (three diminsional + three rotational). A simple joystick can only handle two degrees, and even a good one usually only 3 degrees. Some people play with two joysticks.

The default keyboard/mouse setup is traditional quake style with roll rotation and strafe up/down crowbarred in. This puts your rotate left key in conflict with your strafe left key (ditto right keys). This is why you will not see some players do certian roll/strafe combinations. Take time to consider remapping your default keys, with consideration for how you will accomplish all combinations.

The Dodge:
Players and Bots alike will shoot at where your ship is going to be, according to your current direction of motion. It's your job to not be there. There are two major methods to alter coarse. The most popular is the "rolling strafe". You strafe in one direction, and roll as needed. The second method is the "alternating strafe". Alternating between two strafe directions is limited and can actually cause you to pass into the line of fire. A good alternating strafe should have at least three strafe directions, preferable with the directions adding up to a circle (i.e. clockwise diamond strafe: up, right, down, left, ...). There is little or no need to roll when using alternating strafe. There are scripts that will strafe for you, but I recommend that you do it manually, so you can make it faster when you get closer to the line of fire. For ships with very good spin torque, the rolling strafe is ok, otherwise try the alternating strafe.

The Ship:
It pays to learn the light ships, because they are so available, cheap, and... The Vulture MKIII is a top class ship. Just because it has two ports, doesn't mean you have to have two weapons. A single nuetron or positron is usually plenty (two plasma cannon HX can really milk a battery, but the slow 140ms velocity is an increadable test of patience). Try to keep your total weight down.

Once you have a good ship and good control over that ship, you can study other players and understand what they are trying to do. I recommend the variable zoom bind for watching other players from a distance. Many players can not really explain what their reflexes are trying to do or even understand what they are doing, they just do what they have learned that works. By watching these players you can gain insight that even they themselves might not see or understand.
Jun 06, 2006 ktchinn link
So the extra weight of the filled ports will change the flight characteristics of the spacecraft? ie. FIlling up all of the Vulture's weapon slots opposed to filling up just the one.
Jun 06, 2006 TRS link
For a ship that is already heavy, an extra light weapon might not make much differance. but for a light fighter, where a single high class weapon can be %10+ of the ships total weight, it can make a big differance. It is a choice between fire power, and the abilty to dodge.
Jun 07, 2006 LeberMac link
Try a Centurion with ONE Gauss.Works well.

<sigh> I wish for the day when I can have 6 analog dimensions of motion. I've got 2 now with the 'ol gamepad, so my rolls are either ON or OFF. Perhaps I *should* get another cheapo Evo stick and figure out how to do the dual stick thing.
Jun 07, 2006 ktchinn link
Well, thanks to all the advice I did very well using a Centurion Itani Border Guardian, 2 neutron blasters, and a heavy battery. The bots seem to be able to dodge the neutron blaster at 200m so I set my AF button on my joystick so I could flip in and out of it to charge the bots to get within point blank range.

I did try 2 flechette MKIIs and a FC battery. It was pretty neat like having an automatic shotgun and not having to worry about power levels. however, it was like throwing spit balls at the bots. It took forever and many hits to kill a bot.

Are there any "good" fighters with a large port? I wanted to give the gatling a try. How are the wraith or warthog for maneuverability?
Jun 07, 2006 LeberMac link
I'd recommend a Hog Mk. II. With a Fast Charge Battery. I't maneuverable, but not as nice as the Cent or Vult.
Gat is OK I suppose, until you get the best combo out there by killing queens:
Megaposi and Neut on a Hog. Nice.
Jun 07, 2006 Gavan link
Hog Mk IV!
Jun 07, 2006 thurisaz link
TPG Atlas X .....all else is insufficient