Firstly, we want Leebs.

With that out of the way, we come to the business at hand.

Here is Leebs' problem : he wanted to kill off LeberMac, but he can't because people have already gotten used to LeberMac. Now, he can invent some RP story why LeberMac is dead and Lexicon has replaced him. But! VO-style RP means you have to obtain "consent" from the rest of the community. In short : people have to play along.

Now Leebs can say it all he wants that Leebs is dead, but in everybody else's eyes, he is still Leebs. He can spout all about Lady Serco for eternity, but that's just Leebs going nuts. It's Leebs. Get used to it, Leebs. You are LeberMac, whatever you want to call yourself.

What to do? That's the problem with RP in a nutshell, VO style. Look at Ory" Hara. That's Lecter. Imagine, one day, Lecter decided to say "I am going to RP an Itani patriot, so I am going to write some RP story about how Dr. Lecter cut off his hair, become Akanese (oh he tried, that's Ory Hara and the sad sad story of [A1S]) and eat vegan style." But he is Lecter, and he won't be able to shake off his original character. I bet if he decided to kill off lecter, people will want him back too.

Victims of their own success? You bet.

VO's "RP" has its own style. People bring in their real life into the game (I blame channel 100). Some people like it, some people don't. You can't change it. Sadly, it limits your RPing horizons. (Just look at Leebs.) If you want to do some serious RP-ing, and people don't play along, then you are pretty much stuck.

What to do? One way is to become anonymous. You create an alt, create a story, and go in character 100% of the time. You have to make an alt which is "active", i.e. you force people to play along instead of hoping for people to consent to your little game.

One of the best RP alts I've met is Sun Tzu's evil Itani promdriver. He stayed in character, played him perfectly. It was a long time before people figured out who he was. And people have *no choice* but to play along, because his alt is "active" : he forced your hand whether you like it or not. It's not easy to do though, but when done well, it can be quite entertaining all around.

So, Leebs. If you want a new alt that people will not see you as just another LeberMac alter-ego : go underground. Create an alt. Stay away from 100. Change your flying styles/manner of speech/whatever. Keep it secret.

Or else, you'll just be Leebs to everyone else, sans tequila.

WE WANT LEEBS!

(And for those who has already figured out some of my alts but kept it secret for me, thank you!)

Perhaps if people didn't keep posting these stupid threads and allowed the man to RP the story he wants to tell, there wouldn't be a problem.

Exactly tumble. People won't let him. You got that right. If people 'll let him, I won't be posting this thread. Circular? Nope, just stating the obvious.

ok this post is to relayer about his post telling me to put future posts like this in role playing. but the thing is is that i wasnt roleplaying, i actually wanted leber back. im just saying that i wasnt doing some story thing. thats why the leber petition was in community projects

(pssst.... relayer.... is a *she*...)

^^^^

That's exactly what I am talking about people bringing in RL into the game. Putting on a new costume will not change you as a person if people knows who is behind the mask.

bean... drop it.

Thread creator is right. I hate people *coughMiharucough* who try to link my very seperated characters in the game somehow. It's why I've given up trying to really RP another character besides Erik.

{
edit: i toned down my message a bit because it was coming off more harshly than i really wanted to.
}

hey, "we want leebs", i dont know who you are so... if you're an in-game friend of mine, please dont take this too personally...

cut it out. i regularly talk to the guy behind lexicon and... he just, doesn't, want, lebermac back. it's not our decision. it's not anyone else's but his. he killed him. end of story. end of line.

and as far as "putting a costume" goes, you're the only one making a big fuss about this.

lots and lots of people know who i am, behind upper case, and that i have played an equally popular (actually, more popular) character before: mogul velaio, wich also died. people dont bitch about it and they dont bother me in-game as being "mogul". no. i'm "upper case".

and if the player behind ory' hara wants ory to join [itan], while *i* know full well he's also lecter, then i'd be glad he joins.

because players like him (i'll refrain from using his real name) and the player behind lexicon, know how to separate rp from rl.

so cut it. leebs dead for as long as the one behind lexicon says he is.

just sit back and enjoy the show.

Hey no problems, u.c. :). Everyone is entitled to their own opinions.

You should remember that mogul velaio thing :) on mixing up RL w/ RP. Just look at some frayed emotions over there.

I've been experimenting with RP techniques in VO. Some are more successful than others. The successful ones are the Wailing Widow story and The Raven, the less successful ones I'd better keep it to myself :D.

I'm not writing this to "bring Leber back". I am writing this to highligh a problem that Leebs is facing. I sympathize with him even though I poke him about, I'm doing it all in half-jest. He poked me when I killed off my old alt too!

The point of this thread is to basically point out the obvious : it's hard to RP in VO. You can scream all around "let people RP whatever", but once the veil is lifted, you are asking *a lot* for people to pretend you are somebody else. Respect their wishes? Sure, but if people don't play along what can you do?

Anyway, I hope this thread remains flame free. The whole point is to open up a debate about the state of RP. Leebs' dilemma is a good starting point, because it seems like everyone is involved.

By the way, there is no secret about who I am. Leebs know me too. I'm softy2 aka Holden Caulfield. God knows how hard i tried to get rid of HC's persona! People still call me Holden, 1.5 years after he died.

very few people actually gave me a hardship after mogul died.

i got some of that when fewer people didn't (/wouldn't?) acknowledge a separation between mogul and myself when mogul (not me!) willingly freed lecter. some thought i was betraying my guild. heck, even during my one month ban, i was still an active member of the guild and trying to help steer the guild. pass that, everything went smooth sailing.

what helped for the mogul/upper case transition is that i was able to pass for a noob long enough to establish a complete different persona and then, when people realized, they really went along just fine.

the-player-behind-lexicon's only real dilema is people not acknowledging that lebermac was killed. and constantly bringing the subject up again is really starting to irritate him. we lost lebermac. i dont want to loose the player behind him.

and trust me when i say i didn't want to loose lebermac. as far as i'm concerned, i gave him all the tools i could give him, as upper case, for his eventual return in [itan].

and if i can suggest anything, a good rp-ed character begins with some solid background. or at least, a background that can be built upon.

if you read the rp forum, then these backgrounds help separate people from characters.

heck. maybe i will surprise some more in a near futur. and i'm sure the lexicon puppeteer will too.

UPPER CASE said : what helped for the mogul/upper case transition is that i was able to pass for a noob long enough to establish a complete different persona and then, when people realized, they really went along just fine.

Right. If you have not had this 'grace' period, do you think you'll have a smooth transition?

Well, I just don't think people feel comfortable calling you "softy". And I guess just relax and play along, and shaddup already.

I'm smart enough to not have any RP story elements that require everyone's buy-in. I only needed buy-in from ONE person for this one, and we're seeing where this one goes.

Part of the fun is allowing the community to help dictate where the story goes, and having backup plans to allow for likely reactions. One of the likely reactions is exactly what is happening now, and I've had contingency plans for that. Of course, I was granted an unexpected bit of help from someone that will really help in the resolution of this story.

Of course, you'll all just have to keep paying and playing to see where the story goes from here. I'm surprised you all haven't learned to go with the flow. ;)

Hehe. Have fun and stop calling me Holden :P. Or maybe you should!

And about going with the flow, I totally am. You just don't know it ;).

Well you could always just shoot him.

Oh my, the many tell the one on how he should "live" his life and play this game? I applaud Lebermac's puppet master and the explaination that the puppet master gave here for that character's change. Who know's maybe he deleted that character. It's his call now.

As for RP I think the best advice is best summed up by Lecter (my appologies for not getting it right as memory is always fallible),"I'd be your buddy but it would screw up my other characters."

Let the games begin!

The problem as I see it is that the 'death' of LeberMac seemed fairly abrupt. True, we may have had some degree of warning, but we all secretly hoped that our lovable tequila-guzzling drunkard would make a comeback. What's more, is that LeberMac as a person is by no means dead, merely his personality. This sort of technique just doesn't seem fair to some, after all to kill of a persona as beloved as Leber seems almost a crime, but nevertheless it has happened. Realistically, it probobly would have been better just to retire LeberMac and build a new character from the ground-up, as the former has certain expectations attatched to its use. When mogul went out, we knew months in advance that he was planning to bite it, and we steeled ourselves for the day. When the uppercase took mogul's place, we understood that they were seperate entities. But LeberMac and Lexicon, no matter how different mentally or socially, are physically the same person no matter how many Serco 'enhancements' you add. They are joined at the hip, and there is no escaping that fact. There is no escaping LeberMac whilst he is still alive in some form--no matter how remote it may be. And I, for one, will never stop hounding him for that fact. To build anew one must first sweep away the ruin, lest what is newly built come to ruin also.
I respect the player behind the character's skill at both the game itself, and the roleplay aspect, but I cannot simply ignore his folly on how to deal with his character's end. Were Leber simply to have died there would have been mourning, yes, but also a sendoff to match. Life would be go on, and we would realize that LeberMac was in a better place. But instead he is entrapped within a glass coffin which he is helpless to escape--forever doomed to live buried alive by his alternate's twisted ideals.
The characters are not real, certainly, but our emotions and efforts to their affect are. And we must not forget, that the characters are also a reflection, at least on some level, of who we are. We must not forget that.

I have made my statement, and, for the moment, I shall put it to rest. This is but one chroinicle--insignificant in the looming shadow of the closing chapter--but it shall not be forgoten.

Firstly: Accept change and move on. You'll find out that this is usually the best way to deal with change.

Secondly: Part of why RPing in VO is so difficult might be due to the fact that your account name equals your first character name, as well as your forum name. I won't pretend to have a solution to that particular problem, but I think that's where it's at.

uc said: {
edit: i toned down my message a bit because it was coming off more harshly than i really wanted to.
}

upper case: I don't think you needed to tone down your message at all. I mean, just because it's the guy behind the Holden Caulfield and The Raven and The Riddler character in VO doesn't mean he should get more or less respect. Feel free to light into him. Is he even playing anymore? ;)

[OOC] I've mentioned this before, mainly that: LeberMac the character #55140 has been deleted, and is no more. There is no going back.[/OOC]

[IC]LeberMac's death was rather abrupt, as most deaths are, agreed. He was a useless drunk, regardless, with no standing left anywhere but Corvus, comparitively broke, and hunted by several guilds. His death was appropriate, and... "although I could not attend his funeral, I wrote a nice letter saying I approved of it."[/IC]

just to clarify something;

my account name is actually "mgl_mouser". that's the account that hold every character i actually *play*.

now, because "mgl_mouser" had been use to rp-post the mogul stuff, i created a new account, 'upper case', for the sole purpose of rp posts. ditto for other rp-only characters.

upper case, the in-game character, is actually a new entity and not mogul renamed. he was actually built from the ground up in few months to what is now a 12/12/12/4/5 character.

the mogul character was actually swapped with a 0/0/0/0/0 character, just to save the name. if you find "mogul velaio" in the character list, you'll see he's a zero-skill corpse (wich is appropriate). the character name that now holds mogul's previous character is "vaal'ok dasmar" (wich i also have an rp forum -only account for). i've not played vaal'ok much because i've had a hard time finding a niche for that character as a pirate (aka, it's hard, and i suck, at being a pirate).

so, "upper case" didn't take mogul's place. more so like vaal'ok dasmar did. in a way. i also rp-ed some of that but it's not quite complete. vaal'ok was a side character of the mogul saga. he was the one mogul bribed to get into the weapons depot for snatching the avalon. vaal'ok eventually got imprisoned for it and that's how he turned pirate.

there are, believe it or not, other characters involved around the mogul story and some of that is being developed right now. i have a big sense of continuity and i use that a lot.

so, like lexicon/lebermac, let's leave the events and characters flow and we'll see all it all meshes up in the end.