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My thoughts on ship balance.
I'm going to try to review the ships the way I reviewed the weapons. It's a little bit harder, because there are more variable involved and because not all attributes are created equal. Cargo space is probably worth a bit less than other attributes. Manueverability is probably worth a bit more. At present large slots aren't really worth that much more than small slots, but that may change (and is at least arguable) so I'm going to weight large slots higher on firepower than small ones.
EC-88: The free ship is actually pretty decent in 3.2. I don't think there is any immediate need to change from it and purchase another ship until you have the cash to purchase the best ships in the game. That's a serious problem, but its not a problem with the EC-88 - it is a probably with every other ship design in the game. I'm feeling a strong affection for 'the bus' now that 3.2 is out.
Firepower: 2
Manueverability: 3 (x2)
Durability: 1.5
Cargo Capacity: 3 Total: 12.5
Price: A bargain at ten times the cost.
Centurian: My old ship. Now almost completely useless. It's scarcely more combat capable than the bus so why bother, and its limited cargo utility makes it useless to someone who is starting out. If any design could benifit from separating small weapons into several classes and getting more ports, this is it.
Firepower: 1
Manueverability: 5 (x2)
Durability: 1
Cargo Capacity: 1 Total: 13
Price: Despite the manueverability, I'd rather pay for 'the bus'. If separate small rocket slots are out, bringing hull points back up to 6500 wouldn't hurt.
Warthog: I haven't flown it, and I don't suspect many people will given a choice in the matter.
Firepower: 3
Manueverability: 3 (x2)
Durability: 2
Cargo Capacity: 1.5 Total: 12.5
Price: Considering that a bus is probably handier to a newbie, the Warthog has lost alot in 3.2. Since its only a step above the Centurian in size, I don't see why it should lose two steps of manueverabilty. Also, it could also benifit from having more types of slots or at the very least 2 heavy slots rather than 1 and 1.
Wraith: I haven't flown it, but I like the look of it. If a newbie had to upgrade from a bus it wouldn't be a bad choice. Problem is, new players have a hard time with low manueverability.
Firepower: 4
Manueverability: 2 (x2)
Durability: 2
Cargo Capacity: 3 Total: 13
Price: Almost worth it. If you had to pay for the bus, it would be worth it. But it would be a shame to waste all that money equiping a ship like this given the low survivablity of the hull. Anything with low manueverability needs more hull points to be worthwhile. It use to take a combination of mines and swarms and rockets and more hull points to make the Wraith the equal to a light fighter, remember?
Vulture: The first worthy fighter available to a new player. Possibly worth picking up if your buses keep blowing up before you can complete your cargo run. I've had good success with a Vulture optimized for running away. Low cargo for a trader but has fast transit time compared to a bus. In numbers, they'd probably be dangerous to any ship in the game, but one on one you are meat for the better ships in the game. Is it me or is that not a sentence that should occur in reviewing a multiplayer game?
Firepower: 2
Manueverability: 4 (x2)
Durability: 1.5
Cargo Capacity: 1.5 Total: 13
Price: About right. Equiped with a fast recharge battery, a medium engine, and 2 railguns it would be a cheap but effective entry into a fleet or a decent low end pirate vessel.
Atlas: Seems to be popular among traders getting started. You might be better off tinkering with a bus since you won't survive any serious attack on you but the high cargo capacity means that it pretty quickly pays for itself.
Firepower: 3
Manueverability: 2 (x2)
Durability: 2
Cargo Capacity: 6 Total: 15
Price: Probably about right if all you want to do is trade and run from pirates.
Hornet: Among the better combat ships in the game. Quad smalls almost invariably go to railguns which results in a ship that packs a very mean punch.
Firepower: 4
Manueverability: 3 (x2)
Durability: 2.5
Cargo Capacity: 2 Total: 14.5
Price: I'm very seriously worried about getting four of the same weapon. The railgun is the current problem but its basically just a symptom of too much capability in the design to specialize at the expensive of flexibility. This is always going to result in very vanilla and standardized configurations. But other than that, it seems like a good ship at a fair price.
Ragnarok: I haven't seen alot of these, which leads me to believe that I'm undervaluing manuerability, overvaluing firepower, or else that the better heavy pilots haven't really gotten used to the class yet. Thoughts?
Firepower: 7
Manueverability: 2 (x2)
Durability: 3.5
Cargo Capacity: 4 Total: 18.5
Centaur: If I were a pirate, this design would scream 'free all you can eat buffet' to me.
Firepower: 5
Manueverability: 2 (x2)
Durability: 3
Cargo Capacity: 6 Total: 18
Price: A bit expensive for what you are getting.
Itani Valkyrie: The ship causing all the waves. It isn't hard to see why.
Firepower: 3
Manueverability: 5 (x2)
Durability: 4.5
Cargo Capacity: 3 Total: 20.5
Price: High price does not mean balance. It just means that an 'elite' few more easily dominate the game. That durability and cargo capacity has just got to go. It wouldn't hurt if at least one of those small weapon slots was turned into a 'rocket only' slot.
Serco Prometheus: The iron slug.
Firepower: 4
Manueverability: 2 (x2)
Durability: 6.5
Cargo Capacity: 5 Total: 19.5
Price: As a combat ship, too much of its value is tied up in cargo capacity. As a pure transport, it barely has more cargo capacity than an Atlas and takes longer to get up to speed. I'd rather save my money and fly either a Ragnarok or a Centaur. Needs more firepower to be the equal of a Valk, not that I'm in favor of making 'l33t ships. I'd rather every model represent something potentially 'l33t and useful.
Nuetral Marauder: The ultimate transport ship.
Firepower: 3
Manueverability: 3 (x2)
Durability: 4.5
Cargo Capacity: 8 Total: 21.5
Price: It's a good all around ship. It can fight better than all but a couple, and it can trade far better than any. But in straight up combat with a Valk its definately giving ground - which is fair given its cargo capacity. Like the Valk, I'm worried that it basically obseletes everything else in the game.
In general, I'm very concerned that some ships are being created that are clearly superior in every category to the majority of other ships. I don't think that helps a multiplayer game at all. It very much reminds me of the situation with the Advanced Tie in XvT, and serves to make noone happy and render the universe rather uniform and colorless.
I don't claim that my ratings are definitive. You'll note that my commentary isn't slaved to the numbers. What I am saying by showing some numbers is that in my ideal game using an ideal rating system, every available ship that isn't free ought to have a value pretty close to every other available ship. Otherwise, what is the point in having a bunch of ship? Just have three or four good ships and be done with it, because in the end that's all you are going to see anyway. I think balance was _alot_ better in 3.1
EC-88: The free ship is actually pretty decent in 3.2. I don't think there is any immediate need to change from it and purchase another ship until you have the cash to purchase the best ships in the game. That's a serious problem, but its not a problem with the EC-88 - it is a probably with every other ship design in the game. I'm feeling a strong affection for 'the bus' now that 3.2 is out.
Firepower: 2
Manueverability: 3 (x2)
Durability: 1.5
Cargo Capacity: 3 Total: 12.5
Price: A bargain at ten times the cost.
Centurian: My old ship. Now almost completely useless. It's scarcely more combat capable than the bus so why bother, and its limited cargo utility makes it useless to someone who is starting out. If any design could benifit from separating small weapons into several classes and getting more ports, this is it.
Firepower: 1
Manueverability: 5 (x2)
Durability: 1
Cargo Capacity: 1 Total: 13
Price: Despite the manueverability, I'd rather pay for 'the bus'. If separate small rocket slots are out, bringing hull points back up to 6500 wouldn't hurt.
Warthog: I haven't flown it, and I don't suspect many people will given a choice in the matter.
Firepower: 3
Manueverability: 3 (x2)
Durability: 2
Cargo Capacity: 1.5 Total: 12.5
Price: Considering that a bus is probably handier to a newbie, the Warthog has lost alot in 3.2. Since its only a step above the Centurian in size, I don't see why it should lose two steps of manueverabilty. Also, it could also benifit from having more types of slots or at the very least 2 heavy slots rather than 1 and 1.
Wraith: I haven't flown it, but I like the look of it. If a newbie had to upgrade from a bus it wouldn't be a bad choice. Problem is, new players have a hard time with low manueverability.
Firepower: 4
Manueverability: 2 (x2)
Durability: 2
Cargo Capacity: 3 Total: 13
Price: Almost worth it. If you had to pay for the bus, it would be worth it. But it would be a shame to waste all that money equiping a ship like this given the low survivablity of the hull. Anything with low manueverability needs more hull points to be worthwhile. It use to take a combination of mines and swarms and rockets and more hull points to make the Wraith the equal to a light fighter, remember?
Vulture: The first worthy fighter available to a new player. Possibly worth picking up if your buses keep blowing up before you can complete your cargo run. I've had good success with a Vulture optimized for running away. Low cargo for a trader but has fast transit time compared to a bus. In numbers, they'd probably be dangerous to any ship in the game, but one on one you are meat for the better ships in the game. Is it me or is that not a sentence that should occur in reviewing a multiplayer game?
Firepower: 2
Manueverability: 4 (x2)
Durability: 1.5
Cargo Capacity: 1.5 Total: 13
Price: About right. Equiped with a fast recharge battery, a medium engine, and 2 railguns it would be a cheap but effective entry into a fleet or a decent low end pirate vessel.
Atlas: Seems to be popular among traders getting started. You might be better off tinkering with a bus since you won't survive any serious attack on you but the high cargo capacity means that it pretty quickly pays for itself.
Firepower: 3
Manueverability: 2 (x2)
Durability: 2
Cargo Capacity: 6 Total: 15
Price: Probably about right if all you want to do is trade and run from pirates.
Hornet: Among the better combat ships in the game. Quad smalls almost invariably go to railguns which results in a ship that packs a very mean punch.
Firepower: 4
Manueverability: 3 (x2)
Durability: 2.5
Cargo Capacity: 2 Total: 14.5
Price: I'm very seriously worried about getting four of the same weapon. The railgun is the current problem but its basically just a symptom of too much capability in the design to specialize at the expensive of flexibility. This is always going to result in very vanilla and standardized configurations. But other than that, it seems like a good ship at a fair price.
Ragnarok: I haven't seen alot of these, which leads me to believe that I'm undervaluing manuerability, overvaluing firepower, or else that the better heavy pilots haven't really gotten used to the class yet. Thoughts?
Firepower: 7
Manueverability: 2 (x2)
Durability: 3.5
Cargo Capacity: 4 Total: 18.5
Centaur: If I were a pirate, this design would scream 'free all you can eat buffet' to me.
Firepower: 5
Manueverability: 2 (x2)
Durability: 3
Cargo Capacity: 6 Total: 18
Price: A bit expensive for what you are getting.
Itani Valkyrie: The ship causing all the waves. It isn't hard to see why.
Firepower: 3
Manueverability: 5 (x2)
Durability: 4.5
Cargo Capacity: 3 Total: 20.5
Price: High price does not mean balance. It just means that an 'elite' few more easily dominate the game. That durability and cargo capacity has just got to go. It wouldn't hurt if at least one of those small weapon slots was turned into a 'rocket only' slot.
Serco Prometheus: The iron slug.
Firepower: 4
Manueverability: 2 (x2)
Durability: 6.5
Cargo Capacity: 5 Total: 19.5
Price: As a combat ship, too much of its value is tied up in cargo capacity. As a pure transport, it barely has more cargo capacity than an Atlas and takes longer to get up to speed. I'd rather save my money and fly either a Ragnarok or a Centaur. Needs more firepower to be the equal of a Valk, not that I'm in favor of making 'l33t ships. I'd rather every model represent something potentially 'l33t and useful.
Nuetral Marauder: The ultimate transport ship.
Firepower: 3
Manueverability: 3 (x2)
Durability: 4.5
Cargo Capacity: 8 Total: 21.5
Price: It's a good all around ship. It can fight better than all but a couple, and it can trade far better than any. But in straight up combat with a Valk its definately giving ground - which is fair given its cargo capacity. Like the Valk, I'm worried that it basically obseletes everything else in the game.
In general, I'm very concerned that some ships are being created that are clearly superior in every category to the majority of other ships. I don't think that helps a multiplayer game at all. It very much reminds me of the situation with the Advanced Tie in XvT, and serves to make noone happy and render the universe rather uniform and colorless.
I don't claim that my ratings are definitive. You'll note that my commentary isn't slaved to the numbers. What I am saying by showing some numbers is that in my ideal game using an ideal rating system, every available ship that isn't free ought to have a value pretty close to every other available ship. Otherwise, what is the point in having a bunch of ship? Just have three or four good ships and be done with it, because in the end that's all you are going to see anyway. I think balance was _alot_ better in 3.1
I have to disagree about the Centurion. I've found that it's quite useful, mostly because of manueverability. Having only 1 gun does give it a disadvantage, but it is also a very inexpensive ship. It's also the only non-Blue ship that can compete with the Blue special in terms of agility. If the hull was bumped up to 6k, though, I'd be much happier. Even with the 4k hull (I think its 4k), I've still used it with quite some success, and have seen others use it successfully too (The Gnat Pirates coming to mind). While they lack firepower and armor, three Centurions are more than a match for a blue Valk, as long as you have decent pilots.
I've also used the Ragnarok extensively. It works great against most ships, minus the Valk. It packs major firepower, and can take some punishment, too. It seems like it would make a great pirate ship, because it can hold 2 large, 3 small weapons, and has a cargo capacity of 8. Great for escorting as well. Load it up with 3 railguns and 2 gatling guns and you've got yourself quite a gun platform. It is quite sluggish, but when you fire all of your weapons at once, it'll scare most players off. It's not practical in a dogfight situation though, because of it's lack of agility and the massive energy drain from 5 weapons(which can be avoided by using weapon groups).
-Professor Penguin
I've also used the Ragnarok extensively. It works great against most ships, minus the Valk. It packs major firepower, and can take some punishment, too. It seems like it would make a great pirate ship, because it can hold 2 large, 3 small weapons, and has a cargo capacity of 8. Great for escorting as well. Load it up with 3 railguns and 2 gatling guns and you've got yourself quite a gun platform. It is quite sluggish, but when you fire all of your weapons at once, it'll scare most players off. It's not practical in a dogfight situation though, because of it's lack of agility and the massive energy drain from 5 weapons(which can be avoided by using weapon groups).
-Professor Penguin
I think the warthog is the perfect botting ship. It's cheap, manouevers OK, and has a small and large slot.
Unfortunately, I don't see any other use.
Unfortunately, I don't see any other use.
So actually, when I come back
Try to trade in the blue only ship "me loves being blue :D"
cheers
Try to trade in the blue only ship "me loves being blue :D"
cheers
THANK YOU DEVS!!! :D Yes, the blue special is NOW balanced!!!
so you can kick blue special ass now fur :D
cheers
cheers
Hmm, the rail gun is no longer a feasible option on the Hornet.... Maybe 4 linked rockets? /me grins. Also, the Warthog is a good anti-Valk ship. Put either a nuke or screamer rocket in it. I was givin' White Magic a lotta heart burn with it.
Yup... the blue special is killable now... (Not that it wasn't before... but MUCH easier now!)
Yes! Go Gnat Pirates!
Gnat Pirates ???
who are they ?
cheers
who are they ?
cheers
The Warthog kicks ass.
I withdraw my statement regarding significantly increasing the damage points of the advanced gatling turret. As suspected (after actually playing the update), the unbalanced Itani advanced fighter was the issue with that. Of ocurse that's no more now. Thanks.
Regarding the gattling turret, I was on last night right after the update and El Guapo commented that he thought he had tweaked it but that it appeared to be no better than before.
The only weapons that were tweaked were the rail gun, and the small straight-fire rockets. I've played around with the stats of a couple of the other weapons, but we only want to change a few at a time for the release version.