Forums » Suggestions
Phaserlight, that suggestion has come up before. removing fire-and-forget for the most damaging missiles would be really nice, it'd remove most of the annoyances and make them a tactical weapon to deploy.
even if you don't hit anything you force the other pilot to disengage, pointlessly. if that's what we want to achive, make an emp weapon or something that actually does this on purpose. right now it's a bug/feature with a weapon, not the goal of it.
even if you don't hit anything you force the other pilot to disengage, pointlessly. if that's what we want to achive, make an emp weapon or something that actually does this on purpose. right now it's a bug/feature with a weapon, not the goal of it.
terjekv: Right now I think that is the primary feture of swarms. They force you to run and dodge. that might not be what they were orgiginally intended for but it does work for that purpose. And I don't see the harm in that. Its a tatic like any other. especially if you are being attacked while trading. Firing of a few rounds at you target will slow him down, hopefully enough, for you to get away.
750 damage PER missile.
8 missiles is it?
That's 6000 damage.
What's funny is that I've been killed in one hit with these things in a rev C which has more than 6000 hit points.
I've been killed in one hit with these missiles in a hog which has more than 6000 hit points.
So why the massive amounts of damage?
Let alone 20m proximity on the chaos swarm.
It's like a rocket and a missile combined with the damage of 3 rail guns.
8 missiles is it?
That's 6000 damage.
What's funny is that I've been killed in one hit with these things in a rev C which has more than 6000 hit points.
I've been killed in one hit with these missiles in a hog which has more than 6000 hit points.
So why the massive amounts of damage?
Let alone 20m proximity on the chaos swarm.
It's like a rocket and a missile combined with the damage of 3 rail guns.
...and only 5 shots
...and 1/5 the velocity
...and if anybody gets nailed with swarms in a rev c, they deserve to be ;p
Seriously though, I think the 750 damage stat is only a rough estimate, or an average at best. Proximity weapons don't always detonate exactly on the mark, and this can lead to greater or less damage since damage from explosions decreases with distance. The same goes for rockets... I've had a sunflare barely do 500 damage to my ship and I've seen a single sunflare do well over 2000 damage. It all depends on your angle/velocity relative to the missile, and when it detonates.
...and 1/5 the velocity
...and if anybody gets nailed with swarms in a rev c, they deserve to be ;p
Seriously though, I think the 750 damage stat is only a rough estimate, or an average at best. Proximity weapons don't always detonate exactly on the mark, and this can lead to greater or less damage since damage from explosions decreases with distance. The same goes for rockets... I've had a sunflare barely do 500 damage to my ship and I've seen a single sunflare do well over 2000 damage. It all depends on your angle/velocity relative to the missile, and when it detonates.
most people pack more that one swarm, as in, two. Which, in case you're wondeing, adds up to 12000 damage.
>.o
>.o
"...and only 5 shots
...and 1/5 the velocity
...and if anybody gets nailed with swarms in a rev c, they deserve to be ;p"
1/5 the velocity of what? Rail gun?
The chaos swarms are 85m/s. That's as fast as a sunflare.
Plenty fast, plus you can just increase the speed by turboing.
"most people pack more that one swarm, as in, two. Which, in case you're wondeing, adds up to 12000 damage."
Thanks genka but unless a rag can have an agt AND two swarms... it was one.
...and 1/5 the velocity
...and if anybody gets nailed with swarms in a rev c, they deserve to be ;p"
1/5 the velocity of what? Rail gun?
The chaos swarms are 85m/s. That's as fast as a sunflare.
Plenty fast, plus you can just increase the speed by turboing.
"most people pack more that one swarm, as in, two. Which, in case you're wondeing, adds up to 12000 damage."
Thanks genka but unless a rag can have an agt AND two swarms... it was one.
Swarms are most effective when you aim them like you would Sunflares. Please don't Nerf!
"Plenty fast, plus you can just increase the speed by turboing."
Not so, sir! Swarms immediately slow down once they have been fired and begin to track. The only exception is if you boost them up and fire them without targeting anything.
Not so, sir! Swarms immediately slow down once they have been fired and begin to track. The only exception is if you boost them up and fire them without targeting anything.
The only exception and the only way to actually use them....
>The only exception and the only way to actually use them....
Let me get this straight:
You're getting killed by unguided swarms so much so that they need nerfing?
Let me get this straight:
You're getting killed by unguided swarms so much so that they need nerfing?
/me waves and a thread mysteriously rises from the deeps...
http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/9080
http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/9080
Hoax,
Once is too much.
In a game that prides itself on "twitch" combat, (aka pvp that requires skill) missiles really defeat the purpose.
[counter argument]
Well if you have skill then just dodge the dang things hypocrite!
[/counter argument]
Once is too much.
In a game that prides itself on "twitch" combat, (aka pvp that requires skill) missiles really defeat the purpose.
[counter argument]
Well if you have skill then just dodge the dang things hypocrite!
[/counter argument]
I don't see how "twitch" combat necessarily has anything to do with skill or manual aiming. It's more like having complete control of your ship and being able to react quickly enough to either kill your enemy or escape death. It's just a term used to point out that the game isn't based on the point-and-click interface of rocks/papers/scissors combat, like many other MMORPGs use. Nothing more.
With a game like Vendetta, where war is simulated, tactics is just as important as raw skill. That includes getting the upper hand on weapon technologies. That's how it's always been in the history of warfare. As the background story points out, each race is rushing to get their hands on the most lethal and most advanced military technologies out there. Sorry, but if you're expecting an arena of raw skill dogfighting, you're going to be majorly disappointed.
Autoaim weapons and missiles have their place in the game. You'll see them be used more effectively (and with an actual purpose) once meaningful missions are put into the game. Once again I point out that it would be unwise to tweak any of the weapons based on random dueling. The game isn't just about dueling and random combat. There'll be more to it than just that. It's still far being complete in terms of having some meaningful structure of missions.
With a game like Vendetta, where war is simulated, tactics is just as important as raw skill. That includes getting the upper hand on weapon technologies. That's how it's always been in the history of warfare. As the background story points out, each race is rushing to get their hands on the most lethal and most advanced military technologies out there. Sorry, but if you're expecting an arena of raw skill dogfighting, you're going to be majorly disappointed.
Autoaim weapons and missiles have their place in the game. You'll see them be used more effectively (and with an actual purpose) once meaningful missions are put into the game. Once again I point out that it would be unwise to tweak any of the weapons based on random dueling. The game isn't just about dueling and random combat. There'll be more to it than just that. It's still far being complete in terms of having some meaningful structure of missions.
"It's more like having complete control of your ship and being able to react quickly enough to either kill your enemy or escape death."
Much better said but that's my point.
Missiles automatically travel towards you. They are not linear. Therefore, the only way you can dodge them is to outstrafe (impossible unless rolling in a light ship) or turbo.
(If there's another way PLEASE tell me.)
With anything else you can dodge (actually sometimes an option in a heavy ship though not at all with swarms), turbo w/ flares sure...., or take the hit if it will put you into a position to deal more damage to your opponent than he incured upon you.
Missiles take away from your options which diminishes the "twitch" style of fighting. I mean, you won't see anyone choosing to get hit with swarms because they will be able to unload an MGC blast at you. Once you get hit that's around 6k damage PLUS you get hit and spun around in who knows what direction.
Much better said but that's my point.
Missiles automatically travel towards you. They are not linear. Therefore, the only way you can dodge them is to outstrafe (impossible unless rolling in a light ship) or turbo.
(If there's another way PLEASE tell me.)
With anything else you can dodge (actually sometimes an option in a heavy ship though not at all with swarms), turbo w/ flares sure...., or take the hit if it will put you into a position to deal more damage to your opponent than he incured upon you.
Missiles take away from your options which diminishes the "twitch" style of fighting. I mean, you won't see anyone choosing to get hit with swarms because they will be able to unload an MGC blast at you. Once you get hit that's around 6k damage PLUS you get hit and spun around in who knows what direction.
/raises hand
I think dodging swarms can be a lot of fun! Just head for an asteroid field and make all the incoming swarms crash into the nearest asteroid.
I think dodging swarms can be a lot of fun! Just head for an asteroid field and make all the incoming swarms crash into the nearest asteroid.
That's part of the strategy. Swarms are meant to keep fighters at bay from heavy ships. They're supposed to be so annoying that you'd have to boost. If you can dodge 'em they'd be completely useless.
In larger groups of combat this'll provide a crucial defense system for getting injured teammates to safety while distracting the enemy. You have to look at the bigger picture here. They're not meant for PvP dueling.
Obviously swarm dueling would be boring. And if you do encounter a missile Ragnarok loadout, chances are that person isn't interested in dueling to begin with. So be on the lookout for that. Avoid them altogether.
In larger groups of combat this'll provide a crucial defense system for getting injured teammates to safety while distracting the enemy. You have to look at the bigger picture here. They're not meant for PvP dueling.
Obviously swarm dueling would be boring. And if you do encounter a missile Ragnarok loadout, chances are that person isn't interested in dueling to begin with. So be on the lookout for that. Avoid them altogether.
KixKizzle: Missiles have a maximum turning speed and thus a minimum turning radius. All you have to do to dodge 'em is put yerself on the inside of their turning circle, and they'll fly around you.
And because swarms stay so nicely together, dodge one, and you'll most likely dodge all of 'em. They really ought to shoot out in a flower form, to all sides so they don't stick together that much.
And because swarms stay so nicely together, dodge one, and you'll most likely dodge all of 'em. They really ought to shoot out in a flower form, to all sides so they don't stick together that much.
yep 'rolte, I'm scary :P
<i>"the problem isn't that they don't hit, the problem is that they're a weapon which translates to "put combat on hold until one player runs out of ammo and rearms".
this doesn't promote anything but running and counterspamming. it's dreadfully boring and from a tactical point of view it only serves as a way to buy time. I would much rather see you have to use some sort of skill to buy your buddies time, like actually engage and drive off people."</i>
This is PRECISELY the problem. when people load up on swarms, go in to a sector, blast them all off, and then leave (rearm! rearm!) it matters little whether the defending pilot can counter them - what matters is that the defending pilot cannot fihgt back efectively while doing so, and almost always has to let the swarmer escape. Combat becomes one-sided and boring.
this doesn't promote anything but running and counterspamming. it's dreadfully boring and from a tactical point of view it only serves as a way to buy time. I would much rather see you have to use some sort of skill to buy your buddies time, like actually engage and drive off people."</i>
This is PRECISELY the problem. when people load up on swarms, go in to a sector, blast them all off, and then leave (rearm! rearm!) it matters little whether the defending pilot can counter them - what matters is that the defending pilot cannot fihgt back efectively while doing so, and almost always has to let the swarmer escape. Combat becomes one-sided and boring.
I haven't actually read this thread yet. I will tomorrow when I'm a little less tired. I just wanted to add something for reference:
I created swarms for the purpose of giving very large, lumbering, unmaneuverable craft something to use as self-defense. They could easily be put back into this sort of role. Sufficient mass that only, perhaps, a Behemoth or other large craft could effectively carry them. But more lethal.
Regardless, a countermeasures system is something that's been requested for like 3 years, and would make all of this much easier to balance. And yes, I do want to make missiles targetable, it's come up in the last couple of meetings (a requirement for cap ship defensibilty against torpedos).. anyway.
I created swarms for the purpose of giving very large, lumbering, unmaneuverable craft something to use as self-defense. They could easily be put back into this sort of role. Sufficient mass that only, perhaps, a Behemoth or other large craft could effectively carry them. But more lethal.
Regardless, a countermeasures system is something that's been requested for like 3 years, and would make all of this much easier to balance. And yes, I do want to make missiles targetable, it's come up in the last couple of meetings (a requirement for cap ship defensibilty against torpedos).. anyway.