Forums » Suggestions
How about once some player gets damaged below, say 50%, their engine malfuncions and needs 5-10 seconds of not using it to be able to jump. This keeps travel from being especially boring while keeping players from running from fights.
Maybe so that traders don't get slammed by this on a trade ship (Atlas, Centaur, Moth, perhaps wraith?) one could equip a "Jump Engine" or "Back up Engine" that funcions as though no damage has been taken when a pirate attacks. Or maybe to solve the "Pirating is too hard" issue this would just lessen the count.
What I was envisioning with the first part I mentioned is that if one tries to run, they die because no one can sit 10 seconds, and then try to get to a station where they'll likely die or jump to an empty sector where they have to wait another 10 seconds.
But, to me at least, 10 seconds seems like a long time to make a trader wait, and if there were some advantage regarding the timer for trade ships it would add the element to the more cowardly crowd, since they can take a trade ship, which would me worse for fighting, but then it'd be able to run (which is why I think if this idea were implimented trade ships should only have to wait slightly less time as opposed to none).
Maybe so that traders don't get slammed by this on a trade ship (Atlas, Centaur, Moth, perhaps wraith?) one could equip a "Jump Engine" or "Back up Engine" that funcions as though no damage has been taken when a pirate attacks. Or maybe to solve the "Pirating is too hard" issue this would just lessen the count.
What I was envisioning with the first part I mentioned is that if one tries to run, they die because no one can sit 10 seconds, and then try to get to a station where they'll likely die or jump to an empty sector where they have to wait another 10 seconds.
But, to me at least, 10 seconds seems like a long time to make a trader wait, and if there were some advantage regarding the timer for trade ships it would add the element to the more cowardly crowd, since they can take a trade ship, which would me worse for fighting, but then it'd be able to run (which is why I think if this idea were implimented trade ships should only have to wait slightly less time as opposed to none).
ok, i understand that it can be anoying when somone runs to save their life when you wanted to kill them, but do we realy want to set the precedent that the game should make running a difficult tactic?
Perosonaly i agree with Beolach's statments in other threads that the better way to discourage running isn't making it harder it's giving an incentive to stay and fight.
The way it is now, from an RP perspective the only time somone has any reason to stay and fight to the death (excluding duels) is Itani* running the boarder patrole mission, or to a lesser extent the cap ship battles** and CTC***. every other fight is realy just sencless violence, so to say that players shouldn't run when they realize they can't win is just foolish.
* I say Itani on the BP mission because the Serco are the invaders in that scenario so they would only stay as long as the gain outweighs their losses.
** the cap ship battles are pret sencless from an RP perspective also.
*** While this would be a fair reason to stay and fight most people aren't so willing to die for a robot that's hauling cargo as they are when repellin invaders along the boarder.
Perosonaly i agree with Beolach's statments in other threads that the better way to discourage running isn't making it harder it's giving an incentive to stay and fight.
The way it is now, from an RP perspective the only time somone has any reason to stay and fight to the death (excluding duels) is Itani* running the boarder patrole mission, or to a lesser extent the cap ship battles** and CTC***. every other fight is realy just sencless violence, so to say that players shouldn't run when they realize they can't win is just foolish.
* I say Itani on the BP mission because the Serco are the invaders in that scenario so they would only stay as long as the gain outweighs their losses.
** the cap ship battles are pret sencless from an RP perspective also.
*** While this would be a fair reason to stay and fight most people aren't so willing to die for a robot that's hauling cargo as they are when repellin invaders along the boarder.
I actually disagree with Beo's incentive idea.
The problem is, if a person doesn't want the incentive, then they can do whatever they want.
I'm also noticing that a lot of these threads have disclaimers for traders. I would just suggest that traders adapt and bring escorts, they should have trouble running just like everyone else.
The problem is, if a person doesn't want the incentive, then they can do whatever they want.
I'm also noticing that a lot of these threads have disclaimers for traders. I would just suggest that traders adapt and bring escorts, they should have trouble running just like everyone else.
Of course if the person doesn't want the incentive, then they can still run. But if there is no incentive, then more people are going to want to run. And here's the thing: there is no reasonable way to stop them. If a player is going to run, they're going to run. Yes, there's many ways that running can be made more difficult, but this is something that I honestly don't think can be balanced. Either it's not going to be enough, or it's going to be too much.
Well, my point was more that people should be responsible for their actions, whatever they are.
And I honestly feel that anything that promotes real conflict, rather than dispersing it as the current system does, is a good thing.
And I honestly feel that anything that promotes real conflict, rather than dispersing it as the current system does, is a good thing.
I agree with you on both of those. A player should have to choose: stay & try to complete the mission objectives, risking the loss of their ship; or else run and save their ship, but risk failing their mission.
And I think that having more missions & combat objectives would "promote real conflict" and also (depending on what the objective is) discourage running. Some examples of what I mean: Itani or Serco constructing a new station inside enemy space, to use as a forward base to launch attacks from. During its construction it is very vulnerable to enemy attack, so it must be defended. Either the defenders or the attackers *can* run, but any time they spend running to repair, is time lost, making their enemy that much more likely to win. Another example is how I think the BP mission should be: the mission objective shouldn't be "kill <X> number of enemy ships," but rather should be "clear the sector of enemy ships". Now you have a big reason not to run: if you leave the sector, that's one less ship your enemy has to destroy to clear the sector.
Also, I want to be clear that I'm not really against most of the suggestions to make running more difficult. I just think that with out also giving an incentive to stay, people are still going to run, because saving their ship is going to be a better end result than losing their ship, unless there is some other incentive worth losing their ship over. And as long as people want to run, I think they should have that option; I don't think running should be made impossible. But without making running completely impossible, there's no way to stop people from running if they want to. Which is why I think it's a better solution to encourage players not to run, rather than making it more difficult to run.
And I think that having more missions & combat objectives would "promote real conflict" and also (depending on what the objective is) discourage running. Some examples of what I mean: Itani or Serco constructing a new station inside enemy space, to use as a forward base to launch attacks from. During its construction it is very vulnerable to enemy attack, so it must be defended. Either the defenders or the attackers *can* run, but any time they spend running to repair, is time lost, making their enemy that much more likely to win. Another example is how I think the BP mission should be: the mission objective shouldn't be "kill <X> number of enemy ships," but rather should be "clear the sector of enemy ships". Now you have a big reason not to run: if you leave the sector, that's one less ship your enemy has to destroy to clear the sector.
Also, I want to be clear that I'm not really against most of the suggestions to make running more difficult. I just think that with out also giving an incentive to stay, people are still going to run, because saving their ship is going to be a better end result than losing their ship, unless there is some other incentive worth losing their ship over. And as long as people want to run, I think they should have that option; I don't think running should be made impossible. But without making running completely impossible, there's no way to stop people from running if they want to. Which is why I think it's a better solution to encourage players not to run, rather than making it more difficult to run.
Interesting, the way Shape insists that us traders have to have it as bad as the fighters, when many of us traders don't even really want to fight.
It would be cool to have system damage so things like having to wait for the damaged grav drive to work would happen; it would be fluffy, and radically alter the dynamics of a fight. Who played Wing Commander or X-Wing, where damage took out your ship systems making it more difficult to carry on? now THAT was cool and made for intense fights. It would also make piracy somewhat easier, since a lucky shot could cripple a trading ship in a way the only two options would be to yield to the pirate or die in a futile escape attempt. But this is for the future.
What I am against, however, is to making running more difficult just for the SAKE of making running more difficult. I want to play this game a certain way, and that way DOESN'T include having to pay people or NPCs to defend me; I want a good chance to escape pirates if I'm in a good ship and have decent skills on my own(barring things like lucky shots, better tactics and "Fate"). So every time some PvP jock mentions "traders will have to bring escorts" it sets my hairs on end. I love this game so far because it allows me to play the way I want to play it (unlike, say, Shadowbane, which is why I quit that game) and I'd really hate to have that taken from me just because some people feel it should be taken from me.
So yeah, add systems damage and/or incentives to stay on a fight, but please DO NOT simply make it harder to run.
It would be cool to have system damage so things like having to wait for the damaged grav drive to work would happen; it would be fluffy, and radically alter the dynamics of a fight. Who played Wing Commander or X-Wing, where damage took out your ship systems making it more difficult to carry on? now THAT was cool and made for intense fights. It would also make piracy somewhat easier, since a lucky shot could cripple a trading ship in a way the only two options would be to yield to the pirate or die in a futile escape attempt. But this is for the future.
What I am against, however, is to making running more difficult just for the SAKE of making running more difficult. I want to play this game a certain way, and that way DOESN'T include having to pay people or NPCs to defend me; I want a good chance to escape pirates if I'm in a good ship and have decent skills on my own(barring things like lucky shots, better tactics and "Fate"). So every time some PvP jock mentions "traders will have to bring escorts" it sets my hairs on end. I love this game so far because it allows me to play the way I want to play it (unlike, say, Shadowbane, which is why I quit that game) and I'd really hate to have that taken from me just because some people feel it should be taken from me.
So yeah, add systems damage and/or incentives to stay on a fight, but please DO NOT simply make it harder to run.
Jex, Adapt
Here's the thing about escorts: they should be required to even up what would otherwise be an uneven fight. Here's the way I see it, there's two sides to the fight, the trader's side, that pirates' side. If the trader doesn't have any escorts, and is attacked by a single pirate, I'm fine with the trader have a good chance of escaping (but it shouldn't be something the trader can take for granted). Even if a single trader is attacked by two pirates, if the trader is skilled enough I'd still be OK with the trader being able to escape, but it should be significantly more difficult, and if three pirates attack an unescorted trader, the trader should have next to no chance at escaping. 1v1 (1 trader, 1 pirate), 2v2 (1 trader, 1 escort, 2 pirates), etc. should be an even fight; 2v1 should be difficult for the 1 to win, 3v1 still more difficult, etc.
"Adapt"? Isn't that what Arolte's been preaching about his griefing?
I've already adapted by cutting greyspace from my trade runs; I refuse to adapt any further if trading is to become also ridiculously hard inside nation space just so PvP jocks can have an easier time hunting down less-skilled people and newbies.
Beolach has it right; I don't mind losing a ship to a coordinated attack by two or more pirates; I'd absolutely hate it if I had little chance to escape from a single pirate because of all the hazards thrown our way; if I want to run I should be able to, and the only way anyone could stop me from that is to use better tactics or better equipment.
I've already adapted by cutting greyspace from my trade runs; I refuse to adapt any further if trading is to become also ridiculously hard inside nation space just so PvP jocks can have an easier time hunting down less-skilled people and newbies.
Beolach has it right; I don't mind losing a ship to a coordinated attack by two or more pirates; I'd absolutely hate it if I had little chance to escape from a single pirate because of all the hazards thrown our way; if I want to run I should be able to, and the only way anyone could stop me from that is to use better tactics or better equipment.
I still think a simple 3 second jump timer would solve the problem best.
3 seconds isn't really that long, if another ship is chasing you when you hit 3k, alter course just a bit and tag the activate key. most pilots will take about half a second to alter course to correct aim. unless they are literally right on top of you they then have to fire.
it takes about another second and a half to bring a stream of fire into effect, adjusting for drift and shot speed, so its really almost 2 seconds before you start to take damage, especially since if you were turboing away then for part of that time YOUR ships speed is changing (you are slowing down out of turbo drift).
at this point unless the ship that was chasing you had infinite turbo, he's probably low on energy anyhow, so unless you are really badly damaged, you can probably still jump successfully.
If 3 seconds turns out to be too long, it can be reduced.. the point is that right now running from a fight is FAR too easy for everyone.
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To those of you that are traders, an additional few seconds on every jump isnt going to make it that much farther to travel. nation space is supposed to be mostly safe from pirates anyhow so unless you are wandering around in grey space alone you shouldnt be significantly inconvinienced by this.
3 seconds isn't really that long, if another ship is chasing you when you hit 3k, alter course just a bit and tag the activate key. most pilots will take about half a second to alter course to correct aim. unless they are literally right on top of you they then have to fire.
it takes about another second and a half to bring a stream of fire into effect, adjusting for drift and shot speed, so its really almost 2 seconds before you start to take damage, especially since if you were turboing away then for part of that time YOUR ships speed is changing (you are slowing down out of turbo drift).
at this point unless the ship that was chasing you had infinite turbo, he's probably low on energy anyhow, so unless you are really badly damaged, you can probably still jump successfully.
If 3 seconds turns out to be too long, it can be reduced.. the point is that right now running from a fight is FAR too easy for everyone.
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To those of you that are traders, an additional few seconds on every jump isnt going to make it that much farther to travel. nation space is supposed to be mostly safe from pirates anyhow so unless you are wandering around in grey space alone you shouldnt be significantly inconvinienced by this.
your all a bunch of cry babies about runners. Your the ones that need to adapt, Shape, Spellcast, etc. Not every one is a pvp fighter, and not everyone has 30mill in the bank. Dieing just because you got into a fight is INSANE, if you feel your not going to win you HAVE EVERY RIGHT TO RUN. Running is a basic instinct, it's called fight or flight. If you feel your not going to make it you preserve your life by getting away. Only an idiot would stay and die simply because they were engaged in combat.
As Beolach has suggested, IF, there were some motivating force to stay, like a bonus or a mission that will give the pilot some sort of negative effect to him, then I could see staying and fighting. This game is changing, it's not like it was in alpha and beta where it was primarily deathmatches to test the ability of the combat engine, it's now more of a real RP game, and as such there are new tactics. You are all the ones that need to adapt not the new players and there new tactics for playing VO. STFU already about this, quite playing if it bothers you that much.
As Beolach has suggested, IF, there were some motivating force to stay, like a bonus or a mission that will give the pilot some sort of negative effect to him, then I could see staying and fighting. This game is changing, it's not like it was in alpha and beta where it was primarily deathmatches to test the ability of the combat engine, it's now more of a real RP game, and as such there are new tactics. You are all the ones that need to adapt not the new players and there new tactics for playing VO. STFU already about this, quite playing if it bothers you that much.
Well, no we'd rather talk about this, but thanks for your opinion john
john, please edit your post, its most assuredly flamebait.
as to running, please explain to me how a 3 second delay on a jump would inconvinience those who dont want to PvP?
the nation spaces are fairly safe, even for botting, and IMO should become even safer than they are now, every sector monitored, changes to faction/reputation to make actions have more realistic concequences.
when the new hive becomes active everywhere and with the new mission editor i can easily see stations offering "trade route clearing" missions, where you and a group are assigned to check and clear the sectors between the stations and wormholes of a system to ensure that there are no hive bots in them, making direct routes safe for traders.
the only place it would matter is in grey space, which is supposed to be dangerous. Even in grey if you RAN right away while at full health a short timer wouldnt prevent you from escaping all the time.
the main thing it would stop is players flying in, STARTING A FIGHT, then getting thier butt beat and then fleeing. In my opinion CHOOSING to engage in a fight means you should NOT have an easy way to get out of it.
as to running, please explain to me how a 3 second delay on a jump would inconvinience those who dont want to PvP?
the nation spaces are fairly safe, even for botting, and IMO should become even safer than they are now, every sector monitored, changes to faction/reputation to make actions have more realistic concequences.
when the new hive becomes active everywhere and with the new mission editor i can easily see stations offering "trade route clearing" missions, where you and a group are assigned to check and clear the sectors between the stations and wormholes of a system to ensure that there are no hive bots in them, making direct routes safe for traders.
the only place it would matter is in grey space, which is supposed to be dangerous. Even in grey if you RAN right away while at full health a short timer wouldnt prevent you from escaping all the time.
the main thing it would stop is players flying in, STARTING A FIGHT, then getting thier butt beat and then fleeing. In my opinion CHOOSING to engage in a fight means you should NOT have an easy way to get out of it.
Carrot & stick analogy again, sorry...
You can't adjust someone's behavior by using carrots, when that person is bound and determined to be a dick. (Incarnate said it I believe.) Kind of like cajoling North Korea to give up its nukes by promising to give them food if they behave. It's laughable.
What you need is a stick, a punishment. Give the guides a tool they can use to discipline as they see fit. Like my "ghosting" idea.
http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/11221#131868
Of course, this'll require work by devs to code it, and judgement by guides to implement it, and the presence of a guide online will be required. But it's better than nuthin. And it's "kindler & gentler" than banning or kicking a person offline.
You can't adjust someone's behavior by using carrots, when that person is bound and determined to be a dick. (Incarnate said it I believe.) Kind of like cajoling North Korea to give up its nukes by promising to give them food if they behave. It's laughable.
What you need is a stick, a punishment. Give the guides a tool they can use to discipline as they see fit. Like my "ghosting" idea.
http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/11221#131868
Of course, this'll require work by devs to code it, and judgement by guides to implement it, and the presence of a guide online will be required. But it's better than nuthin. And it's "kindler & gentler" than banning or kicking a person offline.
Well I agree johnhawl218. Not so much because I do it so much and annoy people with it, as I suppose most people would think at this point. But because I have no problem chasing and destroying runners down. I never thought killing should always be such an easy thing to do. I always thought it should be something that you should work for, whether you adhere to an honor code or not.
Unfortunately I guess everyone plays with the expectation of getting a hundred some kills on a daily basis. But see, I play the game with the mindset that there will always be close calls during combat, and only a handful of kills per day. It makes the game more exciting for me to have all those close calls. I mean that's how it is with real dogfights, right?
I don't think anyone in the history of the Air Force, Navy, Marines, or Army has had pilots who have ever reached a thousand kills in a lifetime. And yes I know it's just a game. But I also know this isn't purely a deathmatch game of fair duels either. Not everyone flexes their muscles with kill counts and high rankings. Some try to role play a career which involves the instinct to survive battles.
Unfortunately I guess everyone plays with the expectation of getting a hundred some kills on a daily basis. But see, I play the game with the mindset that there will always be close calls during combat, and only a handful of kills per day. It makes the game more exciting for me to have all those close calls. I mean that's how it is with real dogfights, right?
I don't think anyone in the history of the Air Force, Navy, Marines, or Army has had pilots who have ever reached a thousand kills in a lifetime. And yes I know it's just a game. But I also know this isn't purely a deathmatch game of fair duels either. Not everyone flexes their muscles with kill counts and high rankings. Some try to role play a career which involves the instinct to survive battles.
Did anyone notice that Yet Another Running Suggestion can be abbreviated: "Yars!"
Shape, if you've canceled your accoutn Shut your mouth and leave already, your all a bunch of babies, boycotting VO cause your not getting your way, you think your so special because you were all hear 2 years ago and not that game has changes and does not suit you any more you come up with a list of demands that if not met you will leave. Leave with some style and grace and just fade away, your just wasting dev time over something that could be solved with a little work on your part to catch the runner. I personally have caught a handfull of runners personally just following them to there jump destination. IT's not that hard!!! Your simply too lazy to go after them. YOUR fault not the game or the devs.
And I agree completely with Arolte about having a career in the game, trying to die as little as possible while still trying to get kills, exactly how I play too, perhaps that's why I have little issues with how he plays. In any case, your all wrong about this I only hope that the devs don't cave to your demands simply out of fear that of loss of subscriptions.
Get over yourself Shape, your not all that and a bag of chips!!
And I agree completely with Arolte about having a career in the game, trying to die as little as possible while still trying to get kills, exactly how I play too, perhaps that's why I have little issues with how he plays. In any case, your all wrong about this I only hope that the devs don't cave to your demands simply out of fear that of loss of subscriptions.
Get over yourself Shape, your not all that and a bag of chips!!
I have a three month subscription, mine runs out in october. So I may be boycotting playing, but you'll still hear m.
As far as chasing people down. I think I catch more runners than most.
But any reasonably intelligent person should NEVER be caught if they get a chance to jump.
As far as chasing people down. I think I catch more runners than most.
But any reasonably intelligent person should NEVER be caught if they get a chance to jump.
IF your account is canceled your voice should be forfit to any suggestions or comments to the devs, that's a right you give up when you stop paying to play, so for all you who've recently canceled your accounts to boycott Guild SHUT YOUR MOUTHS!!!! You have no right to an opinion any more!