Forums » Suggestions
strafe-turn Dueling
Skilled fighters can and do hit at greater than 100m I never said that they didnt. All I am proposing is a changing of the scale of combat... the reactions that people use to dogfight at 50m now would be the same ones they use to dodge at 150 meters if you increased the speed... Instead of speculating endlessly on "What If's" I am just asking the developers to give it a try. that is what testing is all about after all. As for 'relative lack of experience' I have been playing this game since it was 1 sector and am currently ranked in the top 5, so no I dont think that is a factor...
PS Celebrim : 55 m/s is about 125 mph... barely WWI combat speed :)
PS Celebrim : 55 m/s is about 125 mph... barely WWI combat speed :)
There's nothing wrong with reapplying combat moves that have been used over and over. Modern fighter jet pilots today are taught to do maneuvers that were used thousands of times in the past as well. Nobody is stopping you from using your own technique either.
And I definitely agree about the variation of weapons. There are simply too many energy spray weapons out there. They only differ in damage, repeat rates, and energy usage. The railgun is probably a more unique choice out of the bunch. Once tweaked, it should make a decent long-range weapon, for those who want a little more variation in their combat. You might also want to give the advanced gatling turret a try, on some of the medium or heavy ships. It certainly changes the way you fight.
But... where I have to disagree with is your boosting argument. The limitations of boost were added to balance gameplay. If people could shoot all they want while boosting, nobody would ever be able to retreat from combat alive. Giving chase provides part of the excitement that Vendetta has to offer. I should hint, though, that it's not completely impossible to shoot while boosting. If you time it right, you can in fact fire while boosting. You simply need to practice controlling your bursts and be patient. In time you'll get used to it.
And I definitely agree about the variation of weapons. There are simply too many energy spray weapons out there. They only differ in damage, repeat rates, and energy usage. The railgun is probably a more unique choice out of the bunch. Once tweaked, it should make a decent long-range weapon, for those who want a little more variation in their combat. You might also want to give the advanced gatling turret a try, on some of the medium or heavy ships. It certainly changes the way you fight.
But... where I have to disagree with is your boosting argument. The limitations of boost were added to balance gameplay. If people could shoot all they want while boosting, nobody would ever be able to retreat from combat alive. Giving chase provides part of the excitement that Vendetta has to offer. I should hint, though, that it's not completely impossible to shoot while boosting. If you time it right, you can in fact fire while boosting. You simply need to practice controlling your bursts and be patient. In time you'll get used to it.
I agree that there isn't enough weapon variation. There are things we can do about that latter, but right now not even the weapons we have are balanced.
I happen to not use the tactics you describe, for the simple reason that I'm not very good at them. In fact, there are more combat styles than you seem to think, and I have to try to adjust the way I fight to the opponent I'm facing. A couple of them just have my number in that they know a good counter to my ordinary tactics, and since I can't face them head on in a circle strafe, I try to avoid them when I can. But many otherwise experienced players haven't yet figured out what to do with me, and newbies tend to find themselves going 'boom' in a hurry.
Consider what you are asking for. If the velocity of the weapons are greatly increased, the learning curve will be also. Intuitive actions won't work as well. Visual ques will happen too fast to respond to. Weapons will reach your ship faster than human reflexes can handle. If a weapon can reach out and touch you consitantly from beyond a certain distance, there won't be anything you can do to avoid it because the source will generally be outside your visual scanning range and must by definition be moving fast. Faster and more accurate weapons would mean that skilled pilots would just that much more quickly dispatch of unskilled ones. Shorter fights would result in less 'newbie learning' taking place. Tripling the shot speed would result in much greater than triple the number of hits.
Skilled pilots do in fact hit thier targets at greater than 100m. Are you sure that it isn't a realitive lack of experience informing your opinions?
Yes, I do know that the objects in Vendetta move with unrealistic slowness. Most of the ships move at speeds equivalent to WWII fighters, and thier weapons are generally not any faster. This is not at all accidental (even if it wasn't intentional), but an explanation of the logic of this is beyond the scope of what I'd like to into right now.
I happen to not use the tactics you describe, for the simple reason that I'm not very good at them. In fact, there are more combat styles than you seem to think, and I have to try to adjust the way I fight to the opponent I'm facing. A couple of them just have my number in that they know a good counter to my ordinary tactics, and since I can't face them head on in a circle strafe, I try to avoid them when I can. But many otherwise experienced players haven't yet figured out what to do with me, and newbies tend to find themselves going 'boom' in a hurry.
Consider what you are asking for. If the velocity of the weapons are greatly increased, the learning curve will be also. Intuitive actions won't work as well. Visual ques will happen too fast to respond to. Weapons will reach your ship faster than human reflexes can handle. If a weapon can reach out and touch you consitantly from beyond a certain distance, there won't be anything you can do to avoid it because the source will generally be outside your visual scanning range and must by definition be moving fast. Faster and more accurate weapons would mean that skilled pilots would just that much more quickly dispatch of unskilled ones. Shorter fights would result in less 'newbie learning' taking place. Tripling the shot speed would result in much greater than triple the number of hits.
Skilled pilots do in fact hit thier targets at greater than 100m. Are you sure that it isn't a realitive lack of experience informing your opinions?
Yes, I do know that the objects in Vendetta move with unrealistic slowness. Most of the ships move at speeds equivalent to WWII fighters, and thier weapons are generally not any faster. This is not at all accidental (even if it wasn't intentional), but an explanation of the logic of this is beyond the scope of what I'd like to into right now.
Is anyone else sick of strafe-turn dogfights at 50 meters or less? A tight turning duel like this has its charm, but I, for one, would like a little more out of my combat. Once you learn to press 'a' and 'e' at the same time, most combat in Vendetta is reduced to this type. Even the bots are doing it now :). There are two major game feature forcing people into this style of fighting. One is the speed and range of the weapon systems. The other is the insane level of manuveability the lateral thrusters on the ships provide.
Due to their slow shot speed, most weapons are ineffective at a range of greater than 100m and totally useless at a range of 300m or more. One way to 'open up' the combat range would be to increase the shot speed and range of all weapons. You could double or possibly even triple the values. This would be (i am guessing) fairly easy to do, so it would be easy to try it and see how the game reacts. If it is to much, it can be changed back just as easily.
As for ship maneuverability: Ships can acc laterally to the reg top speed of their engines. The only way to go faster forwards than laterally is to use boost, and, if you boost, you can't shoot. You also can not engage w/ missles at boost speed because ships can outrun the missles! The only way you could engage in a high speed chase/duel was w/ rails. Now you can't even do that. This problem is a little more tricky than the weapon speed issue.
and would require much more extensive retweeking of the games controls and physics. Therefore, I would recommend a trial in which the shot speed (not rate of fire) of all weapons and missles is doubled or trippled. If this turns out to be to extreme, it can be scaled back easily enough.
If this sounds excessive, consider that all of the weapons in the game except the railgun travel at less than the speed of sound (aprx 330 m/s). far slower than most modern bullets!!
Oh, and give players the option to turn off auto aim so that we can at least lead distant targets correctly! :)
Due to their slow shot speed, most weapons are ineffective at a range of greater than 100m and totally useless at a range of 300m or more. One way to 'open up' the combat range would be to increase the shot speed and range of all weapons. You could double or possibly even triple the values. This would be (i am guessing) fairly easy to do, so it would be easy to try it and see how the game reacts. If it is to much, it can be changed back just as easily.
As for ship maneuverability: Ships can acc laterally to the reg top speed of their engines. The only way to go faster forwards than laterally is to use boost, and, if you boost, you can't shoot. You also can not engage w/ missles at boost speed because ships can outrun the missles! The only way you could engage in a high speed chase/duel was w/ rails. Now you can't even do that. This problem is a little more tricky than the weapon speed issue.
and would require much more extensive retweeking of the games controls and physics. Therefore, I would recommend a trial in which the shot speed (not rate of fire) of all weapons and missles is doubled or trippled. If this turns out to be to extreme, it can be scaled back easily enough.
If this sounds excessive, consider that all of the weapons in the game except the railgun travel at less than the speed of sound (aprx 330 m/s). far slower than most modern bullets!!
Oh, and give players the option to turn off auto aim so that we can at least lead distant targets correctly! :)
I love the close-quarters strafing duels. It's what makes this game so unique and cool after the endless turning fights of games like X-Wing and Freespace. Having the weapons be more effective at long range would just shift the balance even more in favor of pirates.
drooling,
but 50 m is a tad short, if it would be 150m , then I can dodge things very easilly :D. Like rockets and ions :D
cheers
but 50 m is a tad short, if it would be 150m , then I can dodge things very easilly :D. Like rockets and ions :D
cheers
Would it be possible to make the bots try and maintain a certain distance from you (e.g 50m)? I've noticed that they bump into me a lot when I get into a strafing duel with one, and neither of us actually hit.
The bots try to maintain 100m distance, but sometimes they're overzealous with boosting and strafing. They'll bump into you if they think they're avoiding something behind them.
hmm the bots i keep fighting in 8 and 14 seem to want to maintain a 500 m distance from me.. i cant catch the silly things untill theres a pack of 8 of them, or we're in the middle of an asteroid field... are they supposed to do that or am i just chasing them around into a group?