Forums » Suggestions
Everyone knows you can increase your pilot license levels.
But- what if your equipment could "Level up" as well? You could have "Learning" widgets?
Say, for example, that your asteroid scanner kept the data from all asteroids you ever scanned. Once you scanned a couple of systems with it, that would be a VERY valuable scanner. You would not want to lose it since you've got an investment of time in it.
What if, due to the amount of time you spend with a particular widget, you get better with it? (Serco= Implant Synchronization / Itani= Mental One-Ness / UIT=Mechanical Familiarization) Make up any excuse for WHY this happens, but let's say you equip a certain Neut 3 weapon, you used it a lot, and you never died with it in your ship. After a while, you'd get "used" to the weapon and become better with it. Perhaps imparting a slightly longer range (time of weapon existence), or perhaps a slightly better autoaim cone.
More efficient mining beams, smarter homing weapons, whatever.
If you flew a ship for a long time without dying, it would gain a slight amount of extra armor, or perhaps a slight amount of maneuverability. Or turbo speed, or whatever.
I know that there are purists out there that say "No WAY! That would totally unbalance the game! Those with more skill would totally dominate!" Ooops - too late - that's already happened. The benefits of any widget would have to be balanced between being good enough to be something to WORK for and weak enough to not TOTALLY unbalance things.
Perhaps this could be worked into the crafting system in some way.
However, when you die in your ship, your cool widget dies with you. (Or is perhaps salvageable by the folks that killed you. Could the widget survive the explosion?)
Drawbacks to this idea:
1. Will encourage running & not fighting if odds look bad & you've got special stuff equipped.
2. Will probably not be able to be implemented very soon - will probably have to wait until the crafting is implemented.
3. Will unbalance ships for really skilled PvP fighters who don't die a lot.
Advantages:
1. Something more to work towards. Gives players "special" items that may offer advantages for special occasions.
2. Will encourage teamwork in eliminating the really good PvP-ers, capturing their enhanced weaponry (if this is implemented, and if it survives the explosion), and using it. Which leads to point #3:
3. Creates "artifact" items without the devs having to bother to create them. Imagine getting your hands on ViciousNanite's Mineral Scanner or UncleDave's AGT. (!!!)
"Learning" Widgets. Discuss.
But- what if your equipment could "Level up" as well? You could have "Learning" widgets?
Say, for example, that your asteroid scanner kept the data from all asteroids you ever scanned. Once you scanned a couple of systems with it, that would be a VERY valuable scanner. You would not want to lose it since you've got an investment of time in it.
What if, due to the amount of time you spend with a particular widget, you get better with it? (Serco= Implant Synchronization / Itani= Mental One-Ness / UIT=Mechanical Familiarization) Make up any excuse for WHY this happens, but let's say you equip a certain Neut 3 weapon, you used it a lot, and you never died with it in your ship. After a while, you'd get "used" to the weapon and become better with it. Perhaps imparting a slightly longer range (time of weapon existence), or perhaps a slightly better autoaim cone.
More efficient mining beams, smarter homing weapons, whatever.
If you flew a ship for a long time without dying, it would gain a slight amount of extra armor, or perhaps a slight amount of maneuverability. Or turbo speed, or whatever.
I know that there are purists out there that say "No WAY! That would totally unbalance the game! Those with more skill would totally dominate!" Ooops - too late - that's already happened. The benefits of any widget would have to be balanced between being good enough to be something to WORK for and weak enough to not TOTALLY unbalance things.
Perhaps this could be worked into the crafting system in some way.
However, when you die in your ship, your cool widget dies with you. (Or is perhaps salvageable by the folks that killed you. Could the widget survive the explosion?)
Drawbacks to this idea:
1. Will encourage running & not fighting if odds look bad & you've got special stuff equipped.
2. Will probably not be able to be implemented very soon - will probably have to wait until the crafting is implemented.
3. Will unbalance ships for really skilled PvP fighters who don't die a lot.
Advantages:
1. Something more to work towards. Gives players "special" items that may offer advantages for special occasions.
2. Will encourage teamwork in eliminating the really good PvP-ers, capturing their enhanced weaponry (if this is implemented, and if it survives the explosion), and using it. Which leads to point #3:
3. Creates "artifact" items without the devs having to bother to create them. Imagine getting your hands on ViciousNanite's Mineral Scanner or UncleDave's AGT. (!!!)
"Learning" Widgets. Discuss.
TAMAGACHI ONLINE, HERE WE COME!
Hell Bent for Leather!!
The hardcore player base like the game the way it is, which is "player skill based", they don't want this to become a "grind" game where it's all about how much time you spend with items to improve and give you an advantage. They like it twitch based and I'll put money on it that it will never change. While your idea is good in theory, it will just fall on deft ears here, sorry.
I think this is an awesome idea, but it has one problem:
If I get really good at using a weapon, why would I not be good at using that weapon generally, as opposed to that specific one?
AGT = AGT = AGT?
Maybe with crafting, I could improve the weapon?
For the mineral scanner, however, it makes sense "out of the box" for it to have "memory" of scanned rocks.
If I get really good at using a weapon, why would I not be good at using that weapon generally, as opposed to that specific one?
AGT = AGT = AGT?
Maybe with crafting, I could improve the weapon?
For the mineral scanner, however, it makes sense "out of the box" for it to have "memory" of scanned rocks.
I like anything that brings the "danger" back to the game for me. If I have a +5 vorpal scanner of doom, and I see the local PvP gunslinger moving in, I know my heart is going to be pumping while I decide on fight or flight.
(I think LeberMac is part of the hardcore player base.)
(deaf)
(I think LeberMac is part of the hardcore player base.)
(deaf)
The thing is... didn't Inc say that items were supposed to decay over time? Or am I confused?
I see a problem with this idea, namely that my AGT would have an aiming cone of 180 degrees and a range of 6 kilometers. :P
Nah seriously, its a cool idea. I don't think its a problem when it comes to the grinding to get your ships maxed out if the bonuses were small enough to be more psychological than effectual- that is to say, next-to-insignificant. In the same way someone experienced in a mkII prom can batter the crap outta someone in a skycommand, someone in a fresh ship who kicks ass would annihilate someone in a slightly improved battle-worn ship whose favorite pastime is running like a pansy.
If anything, I would say that so long as weapons don't improve in speed/power and INCREASE in drain every step, ships don't improve in thrust/speed/torque, and batteries don't improve in charge rate, its a good idea.
Scanner/navmap data widgets are a superb idea.
Personally, I think we have to avoid being total purists on matters like this. At the end of the day, its a minor change to combat as it is now, but it adds a side-goal to it all. Perhaps if the boosts were only obtained through pvp combat? Conkers-style. You have a +1 L-port weapon, they have a +4 L-port weapon, you win. You now have a +5 one.
Nah seriously, its a cool idea. I don't think its a problem when it comes to the grinding to get your ships maxed out if the bonuses were small enough to be more psychological than effectual- that is to say, next-to-insignificant. In the same way someone experienced in a mkII prom can batter the crap outta someone in a skycommand, someone in a fresh ship who kicks ass would annihilate someone in a slightly improved battle-worn ship whose favorite pastime is running like a pansy.
If anything, I would say that so long as weapons don't improve in speed/power and INCREASE in drain every step, ships don't improve in thrust/speed/torque, and batteries don't improve in charge rate, its a good idea.
Scanner/navmap data widgets are a superb idea.
Personally, I think we have to avoid being total purists on matters like this. At the end of the day, its a minor change to combat as it is now, but it adds a side-goal to it all. Perhaps if the boosts were only obtained through pvp combat? Conkers-style. You have a +1 L-port weapon, they have a +4 L-port weapon, you win. You now have a +5 one.
johnhawl said: The hardcore player base like the game the way it is, which is "player skill based", they don't want this to become a "grind" game where it's all about how much time you spend with items to improve and give you an advantage. They like it twitch based and I'll put money on it that it will never change.
No no I LOVE the twitch-based aspect of the game. That's why I'm still here playing after a year or so. I'm thinking that the rewards of using the same ship/weapon/widget would be small, on the order of maxing out at a 5% boost or so, maybe 10% improvement MAX, but you'd have to go through 100 fights to see that kind of improvement. 10% would only matter when you fight someone who you are evenly matched against, anyway. I mean if I had 10% longer range on a Neut 3 weapon, Prince Slaanesh is still gonna wipe the sector with me.
So, there's a limit to how good you can become with a particular piece of equipment/weapon/ship/widget/whatever.
I liken it to your first (or favorite) car: You know how to drive it, you know exactly how fast you can take right turns in it, and you've got that hand-Brake powerslide maneuver down pat. You know where all the controls are, and you could drive it in your sleep. Now, put yourself into a NEW car, and I mean sure, you can drive it, but you aren't going to be as comfortable with the vehicle.
Same thing with a firearm. Sure, any idiot can fire it, but it takes familiarity and time spent with the weapon to use it well.
Hell, even cell phones. You hand anyone a cell phone, they can probably figure out how to make a call. But ask that same person to take pictures, connect to the internet, and add a contact to the database and they'll probably have to take some time to figure it out.
I think the same thing could (should) apply to ships, weapons, widgets, equipment, etc. once the crafting is done.
No no I LOVE the twitch-based aspect of the game. That's why I'm still here playing after a year or so. I'm thinking that the rewards of using the same ship/weapon/widget would be small, on the order of maxing out at a 5% boost or so, maybe 10% improvement MAX, but you'd have to go through 100 fights to see that kind of improvement. 10% would only matter when you fight someone who you are evenly matched against, anyway. I mean if I had 10% longer range on a Neut 3 weapon, Prince Slaanesh is still gonna wipe the sector with me.
So, there's a limit to how good you can become with a particular piece of equipment/weapon/ship/widget/whatever.
I liken it to your first (or favorite) car: You know how to drive it, you know exactly how fast you can take right turns in it, and you've got that hand-Brake powerslide maneuver down pat. You know where all the controls are, and you could drive it in your sleep. Now, put yourself into a NEW car, and I mean sure, you can drive it, but you aren't going to be as comfortable with the vehicle.
Same thing with a firearm. Sure, any idiot can fire it, but it takes familiarity and time spent with the weapon to use it well.
Hell, even cell phones. You hand anyone a cell phone, they can probably figure out how to make a call. But ask that same person to take pictures, connect to the internet, and add a contact to the database and they'll probably have to take some time to figure it out.
I think the same thing could (should) apply to ships, weapons, widgets, equipment, etc. once the crafting is done.
I'd like to add something to the "Scanner remembers scans" part:
What if it could be sold?
I'd by a scanner full of Helio roid info for alot...
Ofcourse, that would introduce scamming to the game, but that'll happen as soon as there are more than the handful of widgets we have now anyway.
What if it could be sold?
I'd by a scanner full of Helio roid info for alot...
Ofcourse, that would introduce scamming to the game, but that'll happen as soon as there are more than the handful of widgets we have now anyway.
"You know how to drive it, you know exactly how fast you can take right turns in it, and you've got that hand-Brake powerslide maneuver down pat"
...but you forget about your left front tire being worn a little too much and slam into a curb (again!) with your right wheel. /me turns away in anger with another empty bank account and a new wheel and new framework (<- this the right word? the thing where your wheel is attached to the car). Thanks for bringing that up again Leber! :p
[/off-topic]
on the topic, I like the idea too!
...but you forget about your left front tire being worn a little too much and slam into a curb (again!) with your right wheel. /me turns away in anger with another empty bank account and a new wheel and new framework (<- this the right word? the thing where your wheel is attached to the car). Thanks for bringing that up again Leber! :p
[/off-topic]
on the topic, I like the idea too!
definately a good idea.
"What if, due to the amount of time you spend with a particular widget, you get better with it? (Serco= Implant Synchronization / Itani= Mental One-Ness / UIT=Mechanical Familiarization) Make up any excuse for WHY this happens, but let's say you equip a certain Neut 3 weapon, you used it a lot, and you never died with it in your ship. After a while, you'd get "used" to the weapon and become better with it."
Since this happens naturally, why the hell would you need to impose an artificial advantage?
I mean seriously... a player that uses an N3 a lot will naturally become experienced with it, and learn to use it to better advantage. Making the weapons themselves improve as you use them eliminates this thing called 'skill', which is what makes this game so great to begin with.
now, I'm all for the non-military applications of 'learning' equipment (the roid scanner which has a memory, or the ship's nav computer that remembers goods prices and traderoutes), but that's really about it... These sort of advantages should not extend onto the competative feild of PvP.
if anything, weapons and equipment should DEcREASE in performance over time - this is natural wear. If you use a specific blaster for years without replacement, it should be liable to lose some power, and likewise batteries should perhaps lose some of their capacity/recharge rate with time, forcing you to buy a new one. However, while this adds realism, its really not a good thing for the game, since people don't want to be bothered with swapping out old equipment occasionally to compensate for performance loss (who likes performance loss anyway?).
Since this happens naturally, why the hell would you need to impose an artificial advantage?
I mean seriously... a player that uses an N3 a lot will naturally become experienced with it, and learn to use it to better advantage. Making the weapons themselves improve as you use them eliminates this thing called 'skill', which is what makes this game so great to begin with.
now, I'm all for the non-military applications of 'learning' equipment (the roid scanner which has a memory, or the ship's nav computer that remembers goods prices and traderoutes), but that's really about it... These sort of advantages should not extend onto the competative feild of PvP.
if anything, weapons and equipment should DEcREASE in performance over time - this is natural wear. If you use a specific blaster for years without replacement, it should be liable to lose some power, and likewise batteries should perhaps lose some of their capacity/recharge rate with time, forcing you to buy a new one. However, while this adds realism, its really not a good thing for the game, since people don't want to be bothered with swapping out old equipment occasionally to compensate for performance loss (who likes performance loss anyway?).
I guess that was what I was aiming at: Having a ship that was unique, and not the same as everyone else's ship. Like Lecter's car (which remember, recently lost a wheel at an inopportune time) - players could slightly modify their ships/equipment just by becoming familiar with them.
Kind of like low-grade crafting. No effort other than just not dying is involved for the equipment, but for the weapons, you need to win fights without dying in order to get ahead. So, the weapon/ship gets slightly better after a set XP level.
Let's say you equip a maud with a scanner, a mining beam, and a neut 3. You get no bonuses for mining with a Neut 3 attached, but your mining beam gets a little better with every cu of ore you extract. Depending on the ore, it gets better more quickly, as a function of your own XP awards.
Now say mean 'ol Cunjo warps into the sector with you and you dispatch him with your N3 when he's not looking. Your mining beam gets no benefit from that, but the +50 XP that Cunjo gives you also goes into the N3 weapon, which needs like 10,000 XP to get a 2% aiming benefit.
As far as Cunjo & johnhawl's worries about unbalancing the game: Don't worry. Something like UncleDave's AGT would never occur (6 km range, 180 degree firing arc). There would be limits placed on the weapons so that they could not get too outrageous.
Now, the real problem that I forsee is that, instead of treating items as clones of each other, each item in the game will have separate stats, possibly increasing load times and/or server response rates.
Kind of like low-grade crafting. No effort other than just not dying is involved for the equipment, but for the weapons, you need to win fights without dying in order to get ahead. So, the weapon/ship gets slightly better after a set XP level.
Let's say you equip a maud with a scanner, a mining beam, and a neut 3. You get no bonuses for mining with a Neut 3 attached, but your mining beam gets a little better with every cu of ore you extract. Depending on the ore, it gets better more quickly, as a function of your own XP awards.
Now say mean 'ol Cunjo warps into the sector with you and you dispatch him with your N3 when he's not looking. Your mining beam gets no benefit from that, but the +50 XP that Cunjo gives you also goes into the N3 weapon, which needs like 10,000 XP to get a 2% aiming benefit.
As far as Cunjo & johnhawl's worries about unbalancing the game: Don't worry. Something like UncleDave's AGT would never occur (6 km range, 180 degree firing arc). There would be limits placed on the weapons so that they could not get too outrageous.
Now, the real problem that I forsee is that, instead of treating items as clones of each other, each item in the game will have separate stats, possibly increasing load times and/or server response rates.
nr 3, yes, thats the one mr evil scientist, de ophanging dus :p
Don't drag my name into the mud with Cunjo's, I'm FOR the idea, I just don't see the collective _______ vets going for it. :D
Haha, john, this late in the game? We're ALL _______ Vets, including you :D
I think the idea is interesting.
I wanted something like this with kills with certain weps.
For example, I think that the only person to really deserve the advanced rails is Alamar, for actually pulling off 500 pk's with rails.
This seems to be right up that alley as well.
I think the idea is interesting.
I wanted something like this with kills with certain weps.
For example, I think that the only person to really deserve the advanced rails is Alamar, for actually pulling off 500 pk's with rails.
This seems to be right up that alley as well.
Heh. I think the idea's fine. Though everybody get ready their popcorn to watch the gazillion threads that are going to crop up about "balancing upgrades" :D.
And specially for you johnhawl, since you are feeling a bit insecure about those "collective _______ vets", those collective _______ vets probably have most to gain from this :D.
/_______ vet
And specially for you johnhawl, since you are feeling a bit insecure about those "collective _______ vets", those collective _______ vets probably have most to gain from this :D.
/_______ vet
_______s :p
:D
Then bring it…
:D
Then bring it…
_______ sounds interesting.