Forums » Suggestions
Hi, Been playing for about 5 hours, already decided to subscribe soon. Just a few ideas have crossed my mind while playing though.. Most of them are trivial, but i think they'd add a little to the experience, or at least hone it for some players.
Rendering a cockpit. Instead of just having the Hud floating there, have some detail like the frame of the cockpit? (Think Mechwarrior, where its as you were actually sat in the cockpit and the hud is floating inside the cockpit..) Sounds daft but i tend to find it a little more realistic than a floating HUD in space. Something like this: http://www.terragame.com/screens/mw3.jpg
(maybe not as many lights and fancy bits though)
Engine sound, i think its a bit too.. high pitched. A subtle rumble could be a little better than the whine the engines make now. Perhaps a weaker version of the sound the afterburners make. So when the afterburners kick in, its more like the engines are hitting into overdrive, rather than being completely different engines altogether. Using afterburners and being able to steer would be nice, but i'm guessing that the ability to manuever and use the afterburners at the same time was taken out for a reason.
Some other sound concerns are the doppler-effect the lasers make. Although sound in space is flawed altogether, i'm not sure if what is essentially light could make sound once its fired. (This is just me being trivial though!) Perhaps make it an option in the sound menu?
Thats mostly it, the rest of the game is pretty damn good so far. I was discussing the game with a friend earlier, and the far fetched idea of having the ability to explore the stations and actually "meet" other pilots came up. Final Fantasy Online-esque interaction. But the thought of having to basically create a whole new game, detailed station environments and an avatar system would be a rather hefty task! Not possible.
Anyway, Its time i used up the rest of my 8 hours!
Rendering a cockpit. Instead of just having the Hud floating there, have some detail like the frame of the cockpit? (Think Mechwarrior, where its as you were actually sat in the cockpit and the hud is floating inside the cockpit..) Sounds daft but i tend to find it a little more realistic than a floating HUD in space. Something like this: http://www.terragame.com/screens/mw3.jpg
(maybe not as many lights and fancy bits though)
Engine sound, i think its a bit too.. high pitched. A subtle rumble could be a little better than the whine the engines make now. Perhaps a weaker version of the sound the afterburners make. So when the afterburners kick in, its more like the engines are hitting into overdrive, rather than being completely different engines altogether. Using afterburners and being able to steer would be nice, but i'm guessing that the ability to manuever and use the afterburners at the same time was taken out for a reason.
Some other sound concerns are the doppler-effect the lasers make. Although sound in space is flawed altogether, i'm not sure if what is essentially light could make sound once its fired. (This is just me being trivial though!) Perhaps make it an option in the sound menu?
Thats mostly it, the rest of the game is pretty damn good so far. I was discussing the game with a friend earlier, and the far fetched idea of having the ability to explore the stations and actually "meet" other pilots came up. Final Fantasy Online-esque interaction. But the thought of having to basically create a whole new game, detailed station environments and an avatar system would be a rather hefty task! Not possible.
Anyway, Its time i used up the rest of my 8 hours!
in earth and beyond you could actually dock and then walk around inside a station and chat with other members and such but i think that one was already suggested somewhere
The HUD is a representation of the information gathered by the sensors located in the hull of your ship. This information is processed and turned into visual and audio cues for the human pilot. In some cases this means that something that would not technically have sounds is given a sound to help the human pilot process the data. Also some visual objects are ignored to give the pilot a greater range of vision.
The reason you don't see the a "cockpit" on your HUD is that that information is being shown to you via a link to your helmet. While there are viewing ports and regions of the ship that have sections of vismetal, the HUD is your connection to the ship.
When you dock at a station you are interacting with the various station menus and automated sysyems. In practial terms, developing humaniod avitars for interactig with the station would be a major shift in game focus and is not a priority.
The reason you don't see the a "cockpit" on your HUD is that that information is being shown to you via a link to your helmet. While there are viewing ports and regions of the ship that have sections of vismetal, the HUD is your connection to the ship.
When you dock at a station you are interacting with the various station menus and automated sysyems. In practial terms, developing humaniod avitars for interactig with the station would be a major shift in game focus and is not a priority.
(Curious fact - military aviation companies are experimenting with audio feedback. Inside a jet plane, you really can't hear anything but your own engines - but they are experimenting with simulated audio feedback, that lets the pilot hear planes and missiles around his own plane. I think it was on the agenda for the Euro-fighter project. Not sure if it has ever been actually implemented though. Anyway... If we can do it now, I'm sure it can be done in the year 5235566 AD in a spacecraft.)
Sarahanne,
That just sounds like a lazy excuse! Come on, the most a hud would be in a spaceship as Wing Commander has taught us is.. as the name suggests, a heads up display. I couldn't imagine a HUD being any more than semitransparent hologram-esque information projected from a helmet. I'm not sure relying on cameras and sensors completely would be right, Imagine a system failure via damage. Sitting duck without any real visuals. I don't think complete sensory reliance would be realistic for any fighter.
So, render a cockpit for the players that want to be a bit less... Mythical about their systems! Make it an option for those who like the complete sensory reliance. Fighting in space would not be a lot different.. visual-wise, from current airspace combat. It would just be airtight and zero G.
To be honest, it wouldnt be a hard element to add, and it appears that people have mentioned it before. Battlestar Galactica and Wing Commander have shown us that space combat is not a lot different to airspace combat, if anything.. theres more dials and flashing lights! It should be considered for those that want to FEEL as if they're sat in their ship, rather than being part of it and having to use TOO much imagination. We are gamers after all.
Just a thought is all! would be a nice feature, and i think a few people would find it a nice option to have.
As for the avatar idea, that was just a fleeting thought, it would add realism.. but it is infact too hard to develop. So I agree with you on that.
Maclypse,
I think thats a valid point. Space combat would drive people insane with SILENCE if they didn't have sound to relate to. Plus it is a sensory element. I was mainly edging towards the sounds used..sounding a little odd.. Not enough "oomph" to them if you know what i mean.
That just sounds like a lazy excuse! Come on, the most a hud would be in a spaceship as Wing Commander has taught us is.. as the name suggests, a heads up display. I couldn't imagine a HUD being any more than semitransparent hologram-esque information projected from a helmet. I'm not sure relying on cameras and sensors completely would be right, Imagine a system failure via damage. Sitting duck without any real visuals. I don't think complete sensory reliance would be realistic for any fighter.
So, render a cockpit for the players that want to be a bit less... Mythical about their systems! Make it an option for those who like the complete sensory reliance. Fighting in space would not be a lot different.. visual-wise, from current airspace combat. It would just be airtight and zero G.
To be honest, it wouldnt be a hard element to add, and it appears that people have mentioned it before. Battlestar Galactica and Wing Commander have shown us that space combat is not a lot different to airspace combat, if anything.. theres more dials and flashing lights! It should be considered for those that want to FEEL as if they're sat in their ship, rather than being part of it and having to use TOO much imagination. We are gamers after all.
Just a thought is all! would be a nice feature, and i think a few people would find it a nice option to have.
As for the avatar idea, that was just a fleeting thought, it would add realism.. but it is infact too hard to develop. So I agree with you on that.
Maclypse,
I think thats a valid point. Space combat would drive people insane with SILENCE if they didn't have sound to relate to. Plus it is a sensory element. I was mainly edging towards the sounds used..sounding a little odd.. Not enough "oomph" to them if you know what i mean.
Okay, then here's the plan for you to get a cockpit.
http://media.livedigital.com/pictures/38/2f/382f1d2960174119b50f903d9760a30d.jpg
http://media.livedigital.com/pictures/38/2f/382f1d2960174119b50f903d9760a30d.jpg
sigh... we'll never escape that, will we?? :D
I admit it is a less than desiriable fix, none the less it does accomplish what is being asked.
Yeah, i've seen that before. To be honest its a pretty pathetic reply to something i would have thought was a perfectly reasonable element.
Nevermind.
Nevermind.
FlyHawaii:
Your point about the different "style" of combat sums up a big part of the draw that Vendetta has for many people. Wing Commander, Freespace and the X-wing/Tie Fighter games had space combat that was very nearly like terrestrial air combat, lacking only the need to maintain airflow over your ship's wings. The new BSG series actually broke away from the old "WWI aces in space" mold, and VO has very little of the classic "turning dogfight" dynamic in it, regardless of the level (or lack) of realism in the physics model.
And of course, there is always the required disclaimer that many of these types of suggestions fall into the "details and polish" category, which means they tend to end up shelved until the core content of the game has been built up further.
Your point about the different "style" of combat sums up a big part of the draw that Vendetta has for many people. Wing Commander, Freespace and the X-wing/Tie Fighter games had space combat that was very nearly like terrestrial air combat, lacking only the need to maintain airflow over your ship's wings. The new BSG series actually broke away from the old "WWI aces in space" mold, and VO has very little of the classic "turning dogfight" dynamic in it, regardless of the level (or lack) of realism in the physics model.
And of course, there is always the required disclaimer that many of these types of suggestions fall into the "details and polish" category, which means they tend to end up shelved until the core content of the game has been built up further.
FlyHawaii:
There hasn't really been an official response as to why there's no cockpit; something along Sarahanne's reply is the usual suggested response. The devs have said that it's a nice-to-have item, but isn't very high at all on the list of responsibilities. I suspect a lot of players would turn it off straight away, and there's a lot more core elements (like the newbie tutorial, dynamic economy, Hive system, player-owned/controlled capital ships, etc.) that are higher on the To-do list.
There hasn't really been an official response as to why there's no cockpit; something along Sarahanne's reply is the usual suggested response. The devs have said that it's a nice-to-have item, but isn't very high at all on the list of responsibilities. I suspect a lot of players would turn it off straight away, and there's a lot more core elements (like the newbie tutorial, dynamic economy, Hive system, player-owned/controlled capital ships, etc.) that are higher on the To-do list.
My own take is that it'd add a bit of immersion, but I wouldn't get any use out of it (I always turned the cockpit off in X-Wing).
greengeek: I think he was more referring to the feeling that the games he mentioned make you feel like you're sitting inside a cockpit, rather than anything to do with the physics engine.
(Second post made rather than an edit, because I couldn't post the entire lot in one go. Bug report sent to developers via email, bug report form has the same error.)
greengeek: I think he was more referring to the feeling that the games he mentioned make you feel like you're sitting inside a cockpit, rather than anything to do with the physics engine.
(Second post made rather than an edit, because I couldn't post the entire lot in one go. Bug report sent to developers via email, bug report form has the same error.)
Actually I was paraphrasing what my husband has told me. So while it isn't offical, it's getting close.
On the practical side, each ship would need a unique cockpit, and if you look some ships would have major reductions in range of vision.
On the practical side, each ship would need a unique cockpit, and if you look some ships would have major reductions in range of vision.
FlyHawaii:
Read. The. Backstory.
I for one am very glad that VO does not render the cockpit. It just doesn't fit a) with the way piloting ships is described and b) with the rest of VO's flavor. Give it a week, I think you'll see what I mean.
As greengeek says, it's one of the subtle ways VO is different from other flight/space sim games, and one of its draws (for me at least).
Also on the practical side, rendering your POV from inside a physical cockpit wouldn't work that well with mouselook steering. Think about it.
What I think would be cool is if each ship had a different HUD skin...
Anyway, glad you like the game so far, welcome to VO!
Read. The. Backstory.
I for one am very glad that VO does not render the cockpit. It just doesn't fit a) with the way piloting ships is described and b) with the rest of VO's flavor. Give it a week, I think you'll see what I mean.
As greengeek says, it's one of the subtle ways VO is different from other flight/space sim games, and one of its draws (for me at least).
Also on the practical side, rendering your POV from inside a physical cockpit wouldn't work that well with mouselook steering. Think about it.
What I think would be cool is if each ship had a different HUD skin...
Anyway, glad you like the game so far, welcome to VO!
And in terms of relevance. I recall that numerous ships in Star Trek, Farscape and Andromeda series used View Screens instead of Cockpit Windows for the pilots.
I find it amusing that all but one has focused on the cockpit suggestion.
But ok ok, there isnt going to be any bloody cockpit! I'll use the concept of magical video screens instead of a more basic option. I suppose i can always spraypaint some masking tape silver.
Phaserlight, About the mouselook thing.. refering to mechwarrior 3 again, (IMO, best damn cockpits ever.) The mouse controlled the players HEAD. So looking to the left would move the firing reticule, and the view out of the left window of the cockpit.
It gave a complete reticule cover of the front 180 degrees of view, which meant left hand side cannons could fire on the 180 degree mark. Perfect if you can't swing the entire ship around or just want to see whats on either side of you without having to go into external camera modes.
Its quite good for immersion, feels like you're actually there, and you can look around to your left, right.. up and down without having to physically move. Quite handy if you're sightseeing, and im sure some of us do! (well i do, in relation to escort.. seeing where your cargo ship is.) In relation to that, super futuristic high paced space combat where your head is fixed dead forward? seems a bit daft.
I'm not thinking of a HUGE console like in MW3 though, just some window support struts, seems stupidly simple for all the fuss, but it does make that much difference for some of us!
Sarahanne, not a lot of the ships there were high performance fighters though.. although thats in hazed knowledge as i havent really watched ANY of those series.
However, if the screens, sensors and viewing screens is mentioned in the backstory, then i guess this realism suggestion isnt really applicable.
It was worth a try asking for it as an optional graphical feature though. Its not urgent, i'd just like to see it..eventually implemented when the rest of the more important stuff is done.
But ok ok, there isnt going to be any bloody cockpit! I'll use the concept of magical video screens instead of a more basic option. I suppose i can always spraypaint some masking tape silver.
Phaserlight, About the mouselook thing.. refering to mechwarrior 3 again, (IMO, best damn cockpits ever.) The mouse controlled the players HEAD. So looking to the left would move the firing reticule, and the view out of the left window of the cockpit.
It gave a complete reticule cover of the front 180 degrees of view, which meant left hand side cannons could fire on the 180 degree mark. Perfect if you can't swing the entire ship around or just want to see whats on either side of you without having to go into external camera modes.
Its quite good for immersion, feels like you're actually there, and you can look around to your left, right.. up and down without having to physically move. Quite handy if you're sightseeing, and im sure some of us do! (well i do, in relation to escort.. seeing where your cargo ship is.) In relation to that, super futuristic high paced space combat where your head is fixed dead forward? seems a bit daft.
I'm not thinking of a HUGE console like in MW3 though, just some window support struts, seems stupidly simple for all the fuss, but it does make that much difference for some of us!
Sarahanne, not a lot of the ships there were high performance fighters though.. although thats in hazed knowledge as i havent really watched ANY of those series.
However, if the screens, sensors and viewing screens is mentioned in the backstory, then i guess this realism suggestion isnt really applicable.
It was worth a try asking for it as an optional graphical feature though. Its not urgent, i'd just like to see it..eventually implemented when the rest of the more important stuff is done.
> Engine sound, i think its a bit too.. high pitched.
*Shrugs* Rumbly might be a bit nicer. I'm ambivalent.
> Using afterburners and being able to steer would be nice, but
> i'm guessing that the ability to manuever and use the
> afterburners at the same time was taken out for a reason.
Yee-yup. Incarnate came out with a nice proposal a while ago that would let people manouver while turboing, but not let it be abused (too much).
> Some other sound concerns are the doppler-effect the lasers
> make.
That's the best part of VO! :(
(Kidding. I like it. I wouldn't be opposed to turning off "non-realistic" sounds, though, I just wouldn't use it.)
> I was discussing the game with a friend earlier, and the far
> fetched idea of having the ability to explore the stations and
> actually "meet" other pilots came up.
It's been discussed to death already. Basically what you said: too much development required, etc. It's not coming Soon(tm), it's coming Way Off In The Future(tm). Maybe.
*Shrugs* Rumbly might be a bit nicer. I'm ambivalent.
> Using afterburners and being able to steer would be nice, but
> i'm guessing that the ability to manuever and use the
> afterburners at the same time was taken out for a reason.
Yee-yup. Incarnate came out with a nice proposal a while ago that would let people manouver while turboing, but not let it be abused (too much).
> Some other sound concerns are the doppler-effect the lasers
> make.
That's the best part of VO! :(
(Kidding. I like it. I wouldn't be opposed to turning off "non-realistic" sounds, though, I just wouldn't use it.)
> I was discussing the game with a friend earlier, and the far
> fetched idea of having the ability to explore the stations and
> actually "meet" other pilots came up.
It's been discussed to death already. Basically what you said: too much development required, etc. It's not coming Soon(tm), it's coming Way Off In The Future(tm). Maybe.
We used to have deeper engine sounds, but some peoples' neighbors complained that it was too bassy, and the devs changed it. Actually, I think it might have been Guild Software's neighbors. :P
Okay, I confess to being a little confused at the idea of "abusing" afterburners. How do you abuse something that is standard on every ship? If I can boost and maneuver at the same time, and YOU can boost and maneuver at the same time, who has the advantage?
~D.
"Nigel"
~D.
"Nigel"
FlyHawaii: When you're using mouselook in our game, the mouse essentially controls your "head" too, except you can magically see in all directions as if your ship weren't there. Maybe putting a few actual camera domes on the ships and letting you look around using those would be more realistic (and more interesting if you can blow them up independently) but certainly harder to jump in and get used to. But if we did render the cockpit, the essential concept behind mouselook would definitely be more obvious than it is now (e.g. "what's the blue target thing lagging behind for?") but you'd be practically blind in comparison. In fact the camera drones idea would be more intuitive/immersive too, sorta, except that it'd have to automatically jump to different cameras as you started to look towards blind spots.
Aside from the question of should-we-or-shouldn't-we (and I agree that maybe we should), we just don't have the art manpower to put together cockpits for everything. Actually Luis might be willing but we still have more pressing stuff.
We don't have any sound people either right now either, and I think everyone can agree the entire gamut of sound effects could use significant improvement.
The story reason for the sound effects is as maclypse says - intuitive situational awareness. But the sound effects weren't necessarily designed with that idea in mind. And "designed" is probably too strong a word for most of them...
Aside from the question of should-we-or-shouldn't-we (and I agree that maybe we should), we just don't have the art manpower to put together cockpits for everything. Actually Luis might be willing but we still have more pressing stuff.
We don't have any sound people either right now either, and I think everyone can agree the entire gamut of sound effects could use significant improvement.
The story reason for the sound effects is as maclypse says - intuitive situational awareness. But the sound effects weren't necessarily designed with that idea in mind. And "designed" is probably too strong a word for most of them...