Forums » Suggestions
or countermeasures would make you more receptive to energyweapons or heck even have a negative influence on your hps.
LC, if you made missiles the same speed as Neuts, you would have ordinance that not only was twice as fast as the fastest rocket, but had homing capabilities.
Right. It'd be AGT in a can!
You seem to be neglecting the probability that IF you made missiles that fast and difficult to evade, you'd be doing so by cutting down on the payload. If they had less sting than a single gemini missile, then there wouldn't be so much of a problem with them being too deadly.
Regardless of the payload, making them more useful as a fire and forget doesn't seem a good idea. My suggestion was to make them more useful while increasing the amount of skill necessary to score a hit.
LeChatelier says :
"Not neccesarily true, Snax. If missile were extremely fast and very long lasting but a fighter could maneuver out of the way, it would add a lot."
Here, my friends, is an example of a statement which
(a) does not answer the criticism
(b) dodges around the issue.
But, it sounds so reasonable! Why? Because the poster uses what I call "Word Calculus", i.e. makes all sorts of qualitative assertions which can be easily proven wrong by an experiment.
Of course, we are all too lazy, and we rather play word games. Welcome to rhetoric class!
Ok, class over!
"Not neccesarily true, Snax. If missile were extremely fast and very long lasting but a fighter could maneuver out of the way, it would add a lot."
Here, my friends, is an example of a statement which
(a) does not answer the criticism
(b) dodges around the issue.
But, it sounds so reasonable! Why? Because the poster uses what I call "Word Calculus", i.e. makes all sorts of qualitative assertions which can be easily proven wrong by an experiment.
Of course, we are all too lazy, and we rather play word games. Welcome to rhetoric class!
Ok, class over!
Cunjo Speaks :
You seem to be neglecting the probability that IF you made missiles that fast and difficult to evade, you'd be doing so by cutting down on the payload. If they had less sting than a single gemini missile, then there wouldn't be so much of a problem with them being too deadly.
I find it amusing that Cunjo posted this immediately after Lecter exactly described it.
Except of course, it'll be an UBER-AGT that fire bullets that actually TRACK you after they leave the muzzle! I want one!
You seem to be neglecting the probability that IF you made missiles that fast and difficult to evade, you'd be doing so by cutting down on the payload. If they had less sting than a single gemini missile, then there wouldn't be so much of a problem with them being too deadly.
I find it amusing that Cunjo posted this immediately after Lecter exactly described it.
Except of course, it'll be an UBER-AGT that fire bullets that actually TRACK you after they leave the muzzle! I want one!
Missiles vs Countermeasures :
Spammer : I see you now. Hit X targets! Fire missiles!
Runner (BEEP BEEP BEEP): Grr. Stupid missiles. Hit B. COUNTERMEASURES!
Spammer (BZZZZP) : Curses. She got countermeasures. Target X! Fire missiles again!
Runner (BEEP BEEP BEEP) : Ha! More? Hit B!
Spammer : Again? I have 10 more shots! Hit Fire!
Runner : Hit B!
Spammer : Fire!
Runner : Hit B!
Spammer : Fire!
Runner : Hit B!
Spammer : Fire!
Runner : Hit B!
...
...
...
Spammer : Damn. Ran out of missiles. Dock! Reload!
Runner : HA! Ran out? Let me shoot you! Wait! Don't run!
Spammer : (RUNS)
Runner : Curses!
Spammer : I see you now. Hit X targets! Fire missiles!
Runner (BEEP BEEP BEEP): Grr. Stupid missiles. Hit B. COUNTERMEASURES!
Spammer (BZZZZP) : Curses. She got countermeasures. Target X! Fire missiles again!
Runner (BEEP BEEP BEEP) : Ha! More? Hit B!
Spammer : Again? I have 10 more shots! Hit Fire!
Runner : Hit B!
Spammer : Fire!
Runner : Hit B!
Spammer : Fire!
Runner : Hit B!
Spammer : Fire!
Runner : Hit B!
...
...
...
Spammer : Damn. Ran out of missiles. Dock! Reload!
Runner : HA! Ran out? Let me shoot you! Wait! Don't run!
Spammer : (RUNS)
Runner : Curses!
Like I said earlier, there would be something of a balance scale for these missiles. Increased speed or maneuverability requires mechanisms that would take up space in the missile case that would otherwise have been used for more warhead. So, within a casing of size A, you sacrifice tracking/speed for more punch, or vise versa. To not sacrifice either, then you increase the size of the missile casing, which means not only does the missile weigh more, you can't fit as many in the same ship. The same as my point on multiple warheads a few posts ago.
As for countermeasures, it's not simply that missiles won't hit you if you have countermeasures, and they will hit you if you don't. The whole point in my view is to have a wide variety of weapons and a wide variety of defenses, to create the kind of balance that exists in "rock, paper, scissors," but not so absolute. Countermeasures would include various types of armor, devices that make your ship difficult to detect, and other devices that confuse the tracking mechanism in the missile. This means that future stealth possibilities would play into the whole countermeasures idea.
More variety to weapons means that before launching, more thought would have to go into what you equip your ship with, since you have to predict what you'll encounter, and how to defend against it. Also, you have to predict what defenses you'll encounter, and how to get around them, if that's your goal. More strategy, more interesting game.
As for countermeasures, it's not simply that missiles won't hit you if you have countermeasures, and they will hit you if you don't. The whole point in my view is to have a wide variety of weapons and a wide variety of defenses, to create the kind of balance that exists in "rock, paper, scissors," but not so absolute. Countermeasures would include various types of armor, devices that make your ship difficult to detect, and other devices that confuse the tracking mechanism in the missile. This means that future stealth possibilities would play into the whole countermeasures idea.
More variety to weapons means that before launching, more thought would have to go into what you equip your ship with, since you have to predict what you'll encounter, and how to defend against it. Also, you have to predict what defenses you'll encounter, and how to get around them, if that's your goal. More strategy, more interesting game.
/me goes on to expand what Prof. Chaos is saying
Now, as I see it there are three definitive tiers in game equipment: Civilian, Industrial, and Military. Civilian grade stuff is dirt cheap and generally ineffective, but its better than nothing. Industrial grade is better than civ. grade but not up to mililitary standards. Access to industrial grade products in reliant on the manufacturer thereof (ie you wouldn't find an Axia ECM suite at a Valient station). Military grade equipment is top-of-the-line, but is difficult to obtain through legal means and is very expensive.
Types of countermeasues fall into one of these categories:
Electronic CounterMeasure (ECM) Suites: Energy-consuming devices that attempt to jam a seeker's guidance by flooding the immediate area with interference. Gives diminishing returns as range increases range, and still requires the pilot to dodge the 'blinded' projectiles.
Stealth CounterMeasure Systems (SCMS): Stealth armor, cloaking devices, and things of such nature. Attempts to subvert detection from seeker guidance systems; more effective as range increases.
Jettisoned CounterMeasures (JCMs): Decoy flares and chaff. Attempts to detonate the seeker prematurely by dropping a countermeasure with mine-like properties. Only effective at short range, and only from the rear.
Point Defence (PD) Weaponry: Projectiles which are fired to detonate incoming seekers at a safe distance. Effectiveness linked to speed/range of projectile and skill of gunner. Typically reserved for capital class ships.
Now, as I see it there are three definitive tiers in game equipment: Civilian, Industrial, and Military. Civilian grade stuff is dirt cheap and generally ineffective, but its better than nothing. Industrial grade is better than civ. grade but not up to mililitary standards. Access to industrial grade products in reliant on the manufacturer thereof (ie you wouldn't find an Axia ECM suite at a Valient station). Military grade equipment is top-of-the-line, but is difficult to obtain through legal means and is very expensive.
Types of countermeasues fall into one of these categories:
Electronic CounterMeasure (ECM) Suites: Energy-consuming devices that attempt to jam a seeker's guidance by flooding the immediate area with interference. Gives diminishing returns as range increases range, and still requires the pilot to dodge the 'blinded' projectiles.
Stealth CounterMeasure Systems (SCMS): Stealth armor, cloaking devices, and things of such nature. Attempts to subvert detection from seeker guidance systems; more effective as range increases.
Jettisoned CounterMeasures (JCMs): Decoy flares and chaff. Attempts to detonate the seeker prematurely by dropping a countermeasure with mine-like properties. Only effective at short range, and only from the rear.
Point Defence (PD) Weaponry: Projectiles which are fired to detonate incoming seekers at a safe distance. Effectiveness linked to speed/range of projectile and skill of gunner. Typically reserved for capital class ships.
The reason why I suggested that the missiles have the speed of neutron blasts and stack with your velocity, is that, instead of missiles getting to come back again and again, with this, they would only get one shot, and if you dodge them you're safe. Furthermore, if you make them have rail autoaim for a lock, you immediately cut down on their usage as spam weapons.
Neutron blasts are easily dodged if you're not running away from them, and that's sort've the same way I see missiles working. Except that missiles would allow greater range in targetting runners on a straightaway.
Neutron blasts are easily dodged if you're not running away from them, and that's sort've the same way I see missiles working. Except that missiles would allow greater range in targetting runners on a straightaway.
Good point, shape. Slow missiles can turn around and track again, like a free shot. If there's a specific amount of time the tracking system works (after which the missile runs out of fuel or power and can't propel itself anymore), then it stays on its final course after that. Once it gets a certain distance away from everyone, the server can stop keeping track of it. It would already be past any chance of tracking you again by the time it's turned around, because it was going very fast and is now out of fuel.