Forums » Suggestions
Hey Devs,
So, reading the news, everything makes sense except for one thing.
While all of this framework that is coming in is absolutely necessary, I worry that if a suitable reward structure isn't implemented concurrently, then:
A) No one will be interested in the changes, since there's nothing but cash to gain.
B) If a reward scheme is tacked on, it won't feel consistent. We'll have all of this great functionality, and then suddenly, we have a reward system which is downright boring.
We really need both, missions and a set of real, interesting rewards, balance, for the moment, be damned.
So, reading the news, everything makes sense except for one thing.
While all of this framework that is coming in is absolutely necessary, I worry that if a suitable reward structure isn't implemented concurrently, then:
A) No one will be interested in the changes, since there's nothing but cash to gain.
B) If a reward scheme is tacked on, it won't feel consistent. We'll have all of this great functionality, and then suddenly, we have a reward system which is downright boring.
We really need both, missions and a set of real, interesting rewards, balance, for the moment, be damned.
Strange.
I interpreted the news to be sort of short-term stuff being worked on right now, not a major roadmap for the reward scheme.
It seems to me, with more and more stuff being rewarded through missions, that the missions are becoming a lot less like grinding and a lot more like working towards a tangible goal.
From what I understand this is happening at the same time, and the only thing really holding it back is the Deliverator replacement.
I love where VO seems to be headed right now!
I interpreted the news to be sort of short-term stuff being worked on right now, not a major roadmap for the reward scheme.
It seems to me, with more and more stuff being rewarded through missions, that the missions are becoming a lot less like grinding and a lot more like working towards a tangible goal.
From what I understand this is happening at the same time, and the only thing really holding it back is the Deliverator replacement.
I love where VO seems to be headed right now!
what do you mean with "more and more stuff being rewarded through missions"?
The only thing I can think of is the X1, and thats purely a test. Its a test because they're worried about balance.
BESIDES that, there's nothing really... just xp, cash, and faction standing... none of which really matters at all.
The only thing I can think of is the X1, and thats purely a test. Its a test because they're worried about balance.
BESIDES that, there's nothing really... just xp, cash, and faction standing... none of which really matters at all.
What *I* got out of the news and all the recent posts is that missions will be in trees, and that new missions and equipment will be awarded as we progress along the many branches.
The framework that is being built makes it much easier to drop rewards in. It will be relatively trivial to drop in a tweaked weapon or hull, or a badge for instance.
The framework that is being built makes it much easier to drop rewards in. It will be relatively trivial to drop in a tweaked weapon or hull, or a badge for instance.
hrm.
what *i* got through the new post was that that erlang's back end will feel the lips of deliverator (in a destabilizing process).
what *i* got through the new post was that that erlang's back end will feel the lips of deliverator (in a destabilizing process).
"The only thing I can think of is the X1, and thats purely a test. Its a test because they're worried about balance."
There is more. For example:
http://www.vo-wiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=TPG_Test_Pilot
and
http://www.vo-wiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Badges#Mining
There is more. For example:
http://www.vo-wiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=TPG_Test_Pilot
and
http://www.vo-wiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Badges#Mining
umm.... Mining Badges...
And the raptor is quite old.
My point is that there's no easy way to add rewards. They're something that is currently tacked on to the framework at the end...
And the raptor is quite old.
My point is that there's no easy way to add rewards. They're something that is currently tacked on to the framework at the end...
There are several missions that award special weapons, too.
More will come, but the missions depend on deliverator-like mechanics, and cannot be put in motion until the deliverator-replacement is ready to roll out.
I imagine it's stuff like "Go kill bot X, bet it's processor core, then go kill bot y and get it's hull plating, and we will build the two together to form a [...] that you can use further to set up a Hive listening post [or whatever]", but they don't wanna send you into the great void to hunt bots as bot X may not be there, or bot Y might not exist.
Patience, Shapenaji. I feel great things are just around the corner!
More will come, but the missions depend on deliverator-like mechanics, and cannot be put in motion until the deliverator-replacement is ready to roll out.
I imagine it's stuff like "Go kill bot X, bet it's processor core, then go kill bot y and get it's hull plating, and we will build the two together to form a [...] that you can use further to set up a Hive listening post [or whatever]", but they don't wanna send you into the great void to hunt bots as bot X may not be there, or bot Y might not exist.
Patience, Shapenaji. I feel great things are just around the corner!
yeah, I had that feeling 2 years ago... Not that I'm leaving, but meh, blind faith just don't live here.
Hm. Whaddya want, Shape?
The ability to edit and spawn your own reward items in missions? Like Neutron Blasters Mk. V with 250 m/s speed and 1,000 damage? If the devs gave the PCC mission authors that kind of ability, it wouldn't be long before we have insta-kill beam weapons.
I think that the rewards need to be tightly monitored on the PCC-created misions. Not that they aren't monitored NOW, but, if the devs keep rejecting missions based on the too-powerful rewards at the end, I think players will be frustrated. Maybe it's best to NOT allow custom reward items for now.
The ability to edit and spawn your own reward items in missions? Like Neutron Blasters Mk. V with 250 m/s speed and 1,000 damage? If the devs gave the PCC mission authors that kind of ability, it wouldn't be long before we have insta-kill beam weapons.
I think that the rewards need to be tightly monitored on the PCC-created misions. Not that they aren't monitored NOW, but, if the devs keep rejecting missions based on the too-powerful rewards at the end, I think players will be frustrated. Maybe it's best to NOT allow custom reward items for now.
if the devs keep rejecting missions based on the too-powerful rewards at the end, I think players will be frustrated. Maybe it's best to NOT allow custom reward items for now.
Right, because that's going to prevent the frustration. Huh?
Right, because that's going to prevent the frustration. Huh?
i think what shape wants is some kind of new revolutionary way to reward players in a billion different ways that no one has ever thought of before, but once someone thinks of them they are sure to be exciting and interesting once they are balanced. well until those things are thought up and balanced, i'll guess to just add new stuff thats the same old same old, at least its new.
VARIABLES!!!! WE NEED MORE VARIABLES!!!
VARIABLES!!!! WE NEED MORE VARIABLES!!!
Exactly, we need upgrades, all kinds of upgrades.....
...
suggest some, then?
suggest some, then?
Yeah - suggest some.
So, some other kind of rewards, besides:
1) money/credits
2) XP towards your levels (any level)
3) Faction Standing increases
4) neat little badges & badge icons
5) availability of special ships (unlocking)
6) availability of special weapons/items (unlocking)
I'll say that we should have:
Ego-Driven rewards:
7) Customizeable ship icons/decals/whatnot designating you as the "super-great pilot who killed 10 queens in 10 minutes"
8) A "Board of Heroes" or somesuch on the forums that detail the current record-holders of whatever great deeds people have accomplished. i.e. "LeberMac holds the record for most Strike forces killed in one sector: 83."
9) Higher PK-level badges (1,000, 2,500, 5,000, 10,000)
10) Levi killer badges (must solo it 3 times or whatever)
etc.
Monetary rewards:
11) Maybe there are financial "missions" you can take. The ability to operate your own bank once you've accumulated enough credits & completed missions (and the dynamic economy is working, so that banks can accumulate interest on deposits, and make money on loans)
12) The ability to operate your own stock market once you've been successful with a bank for a while. (once the dynamic economy makes sense, being able to invest with nations or corporations, speculate on currency exchanges, speculate on commodities trading, etc.)
Item rewards:
13) Change the color of your energy weapons to whatever you like (puce!)
14) Change the color of your missile weapons "" ""
15) Options like: missiles leave trails/ etc.
16) Award plaques that you can keep in a special area in a "home" station for you. (Like tumblemonster's ROID WAR tournaments) Other knicknacks, etc.
17) Missions could unlock almost anything as far as new items/equipment. Being able to customize them is obviously cool.
Mission rewards:
18) Complete one mission, opens up a whole slew of more missions. Like EV:Nova etc.
19) New ships/equipment/engines/features once you complete said missions.
20) Essentially, completing missions can be thought of very much like a "tech tree" in games like Civilization or WarCraft. You complete missions, you get the ability to purchase more stuff™, which helps you to reach the next level of mission, etc. I think that this is the way we're headed as far as game progression goes, anyway - levels will go bye-bye and everything will be mission-driven.
(At least I'm pretty sure Inc. said something like that a while ago.)
So, some other kind of rewards, besides:
1) money/credits
2) XP towards your levels (any level)
3) Faction Standing increases
4) neat little badges & badge icons
5) availability of special ships (unlocking)
6) availability of special weapons/items (unlocking)
I'll say that we should have:
Ego-Driven rewards:
7) Customizeable ship icons/decals/whatnot designating you as the "super-great pilot who killed 10 queens in 10 minutes"
8) A "Board of Heroes" or somesuch on the forums that detail the current record-holders of whatever great deeds people have accomplished. i.e. "LeberMac holds the record for most Strike forces killed in one sector: 83."
9) Higher PK-level badges (1,000, 2,500, 5,000, 10,000)
10) Levi killer badges (must solo it 3 times or whatever)
etc.
Monetary rewards:
11) Maybe there are financial "missions" you can take. The ability to operate your own bank once you've accumulated enough credits & completed missions (and the dynamic economy is working, so that banks can accumulate interest on deposits, and make money on loans)
12) The ability to operate your own stock market once you've been successful with a bank for a while. (once the dynamic economy makes sense, being able to invest with nations or corporations, speculate on currency exchanges, speculate on commodities trading, etc.)
Item rewards:
13) Change the color of your energy weapons to whatever you like (puce!)
14) Change the color of your missile weapons "" ""
15) Options like: missiles leave trails/ etc.
16) Award plaques that you can keep in a special area in a "home" station for you. (Like tumblemonster's ROID WAR tournaments) Other knicknacks, etc.
17) Missions could unlock almost anything as far as new items/equipment. Being able to customize them is obviously cool.
Mission rewards:
18) Complete one mission, opens up a whole slew of more missions. Like EV:Nova etc.
19) New ships/equipment/engines/features once you complete said missions.
20) Essentially, completing missions can be thought of very much like a "tech tree" in games like Civilization or WarCraft. You complete missions, you get the ability to purchase more stuff™, which helps you to reach the next level of mission, etc. I think that this is the way we're headed as far as game progression goes, anyway - levels will go bye-bye and everything will be mission-driven.
(At least I'm pretty sure Inc. said something like that a while ago.)
Ok, I should have clarified more. (Though, there are thousands of suggestions for upgrades, I don't really think they need more)
What they need is a better way of designing new ones rapidly
The current system allows for a trickle of new rewards. Each must be handcrafted, tested and then implemented. Much the way the old mission system was, and was one of the reasons why they spent so much time on framework.
The same thing needs to be done for a reward system, it needs to be fast enough that they can release floods of rewards (varied and unique, so that the game experience is different each time) long before anyone has time to explore it all.
This should start with a balance concept. Magic the Gathering has one, they have a general idea of balance, and then make hundreds upon hundreds of cards.
Sure, some of them are broken, but the style is to release tons of them first, and then the "by-hand" part just becomes pruning.
What they need is a better way of designing new ones rapidly
The current system allows for a trickle of new rewards. Each must be handcrafted, tested and then implemented. Much the way the old mission system was, and was one of the reasons why they spent so much time on framework.
The same thing needs to be done for a reward system, it needs to be fast enough that they can release floods of rewards (varied and unique, so that the game experience is different each time) long before anyone has time to explore it all.
This should start with a balance concept. Magic the Gathering has one, they have a general idea of balance, and then make hundreds upon hundreds of cards.
Sure, some of them are broken, but the style is to release tons of them first, and then the "by-hand" part just becomes pruning.
Let me translate Shape to the rest of you. What he says VO needs is a FORMULA to make upgrades that won't unbalance the game SUCH THAT the devs can create lots of upgrades without testing/worrying them thus SAVING much time.
I henceforth call it Shape's Equation :
X - f(pros, cons) = 0
where
X = balance quantifier
f = function of pros and cons
I henceforth call it Shape's Equation :
X - f(pros, cons) = 0
where
X = balance quantifier
f = function of pros and cons
Thank you, WWL. Much better. An overall balance equasion that ensures that any one item cannot be all-powerful.
Given those constraints, the devs could allow the PCC to essentially make any reward item / upgraded item.
Given those constraints, the devs could allow the PCC to essentially make any reward item / upgraded item.
All of these issues would be quickly and easily solved if this game can get to the point where the devs feel comfortable hiring a larger team. I just wish I knew when/if that is going to happen.
Exactly, instead of making new items every time, you can just make new upgrades, and then all the testing goes into deciding what the balance function for that upgrade is.