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My reply was more directed to krazyivan but yes I sincerely hope they would be nations/factions with their own colors.
It is difficult to make the Serco more likeable if that endeavour is not backed by the Devs' blessings. If it depends solely on player input, it'll run aground sooner or later; if not due to lack of interest, then due to lack of time.
I think to make them more interesting, they would have to get 'the cool stuff in cybernetics'. That is, fancy communication technologies or somesuch. Like LeberMac said, it's probably the fascistoid-mechanoid image that repels most players.
I think to make them more interesting, they would have to get 'the cool stuff in cybernetics'. That is, fancy communication technologies or somesuch. Like LeberMac said, it's probably the fascistoid-mechanoid image that repels most players.
Perhaps make the Serco fuzzy? People like fuzzy creatures. They're cute.
I just started playing recently, the last race I wanted to be was Serco, I started Itani, but when I realized Serco was so sparse, I made a new Serco character.
Maybe there could be incentive(s) for the least active race, like slightly faster experience gaining, which would especially appeal to new players.
Maybe there could be incentive(s) for the least active race, like slightly faster experience gaining, which would especially appeal to new players.
I like toshiro's suggestion.
Make Serco more likeable, give them cool stuff in cybernetics. Change starting description a bit and put them on the first place of char creation list.
Make Itani less likeable by introducing Akanese extremists and pointing out their sins in the past.
And it is imperative UIT get a *wussies* description in char creation list. :)
Make Serco more likeable, give them cool stuff in cybernetics. Change starting description a bit and put them on the first place of char creation list.
Make Itani less likeable by introducing Akanese extremists and pointing out their sins in the past.
And it is imperative UIT get a *wussies* description in char creation list. :)
The problem with the Serco is the image, yeah, specially when you read the backstory. Something needs to be done to put them in a "fairer light", but the fact they are the current agressors doesn't help, so I don't think a Serco backstory would do much. I also don't think there should be any real ingame incentives to become Serco, nor should access to playing UIT be restricted; no one likes to be forced down one path, and not everyone joins VO to play the War, which is what doing this would force on people (Itani and Serco newbs often get shot down just because they are Itani or Serco).
Drazed's idea is excellent though yeah, still give the player the right to choose his nation; I've noticed people who start UIT but wanted to be aggresive in the War eventually make a serco alt or even erase their UIT chara to make a serco one. So get some PR people to make the Serco more likable, move them to the top of the "choose nation" dialog, and also downplay a bit the Itani and the UIT; those ideas people like Lexicon and Ku spout about "winning the War to unite all of Humanity for their own good" sound a lot better than "kill them Itani for what they did to us thousands of years ago". A little spin towards the Serco should do it.
Drazed's idea is excellent though yeah, still give the player the right to choose his nation; I've noticed people who start UIT but wanted to be aggresive in the War eventually make a serco alt or even erase their UIT chara to make a serco one. So get some PR people to make the Serco more likable, move them to the top of the "choose nation" dialog, and also downplay a bit the Itani and the UIT; those ideas people like Lexicon and Ku spout about "winning the War to unite all of Humanity for their own good" sound a lot better than "kill them Itani for what they did to us thousands of years ago". A little spin towards the Serco should do it.
Honestly I don't think most noobs even know what the backstory is. So be it biased to one side or another I do not think that is why there are no serco, just the default choice and short descriptions on the "Choose Nation" page.
I would still like to see a survey just because It would group similar minded people within corresponding nations together and open up some interesting politics/conflicts within the game.
I would still like to see a survey just because It would group similar minded people within corresponding nations together and open up some interesting politics/conflicts within the game.
Cast your votes! Please vote only once
As far as making the Serco more likable.. just add a reason in the choose a nation screen to justify their aggression. Regular terroristic nukings of their cities would probably do it, those darn Akanese. 'A Serco feels safer in a fighting ship than in his home' or something? Eh, I don't know, just a thought.
Since the Itani warfighters are supposed to be outnumbered but elite, perhaps new players should only be able to choose between Serco and UIT, with blue unlockable at 300 pks/combat 12/Mentor level 2, or a combination. That very neatly disqualifies me actually.. on two out of three.
As far as making the Serco more likable.. just add a reason in the choose a nation screen to justify their aggression. Regular terroristic nukings of their cities would probably do it, those darn Akanese. 'A Serco feels safer in a fighting ship than in his home' or something? Eh, I don't know, just a thought.
Since the Itani warfighters are supposed to be outnumbered but elite, perhaps new players should only be able to choose between Serco and UIT, with blue unlockable at 300 pks/combat 12/Mentor level 2, or a combination. That very neatly disqualifies me actually.. on two out of three.
Whoa. That are some steep restrictions for Itani chars.
But... you will have to bear in mind that not all players playing Itani chars are fighters.
I mean, look at ITAN guild as the biggest representative of Itani nation.
Look at Itani chars usually online. Most of them are just happy traders or miners.
On the other hand, majority of pirates, good and not so good ones are UIT and Serco.
And i'll say it again. Introduce Akansese and pirate nation/factions. Make Serco more likeable fighters for justice and peace. Change char creation list and put Serco first.
If we are to accept your suggestion, Itani will turn into a small number of elite fighters and rest of the Universe will be populated by 70% UIT and 29% Serco. Is that really what you want?
If you do, i'm fine with that. :)
But... you will have to bear in mind that not all players playing Itani chars are fighters.
I mean, look at ITAN guild as the biggest representative of Itani nation.
Look at Itani chars usually online. Most of them are just happy traders or miners.
On the other hand, majority of pirates, good and not so good ones are UIT and Serco.
And i'll say it again. Introduce Akansese and pirate nation/factions. Make Serco more likeable fighters for justice and peace. Change char creation list and put Serco first.
If we are to accept your suggestion, Itani will turn into a small number of elite fighters and rest of the Universe will be populated by 70% UIT and 29% Serco. Is that really what you want?
If you do, i'm fine with that. :)
Well, at the very least, make the Serco seem less like the bad guys. When you read the backstory, the Itani are the righteous victims and the Serco are the fascist victimizers. Of course there are players that like to play the "bad guy," but generally speaking, after reading the backstory, the player feels like the Itani are the race that they're SUPPOSED to choose, and having Itani as the default only reinforces that.
And then there are the huge droves of players who choose UIT because they "don't want to choose a side." That's especially annoying... There should be a real reason to choose UIT that's equal to the reasons to choose Itani or Serco.
And then there are the huge droves of players who choose UIT because they "don't want to choose a side." That's especially annoying... There should be a real reason to choose UIT that's equal to the reasons to choose Itani or Serco.
Pirate faction, Akanese faction = bad guys, scum, terrorists
Itani = isolationists
Serco = righteous fighters for justice and union of all humanity
UIT = wussies
Itani = isolationists
Serco = righteous fighters for justice and union of all humanity
UIT = wussies
Your last four line post bojan.. best framework I could have imagined save one problem: UIT = profit seekers. Defining them as wussies is not a good use of our time.
IMPORTANT: I'm about to make references to the present day. I do not present politics as the topic, merely for reference to illustrate my point. The views expressed do not mirror my own.
If the Itani seem more isolationist than pacifist, it would go a long way toward eliminating the good guys bad guys idea. Picture Switzerland nuking someone and arguing that they had every right to do so, then declaring themselves above conflict forever forward. The Akanese are that 'nuke them' arm, and the remainder of the Itani represent the 'you can't attack us, we're too good for fighting wars.' The two are absolutely essential to one another, creating a two-faced sort of politics that make the Serco aggression seem justified.
The Serco can have a reunification angle added, but the basis of the conflict is revenge. We can't lose sight of that. Think USA in Afghanistan before the stupidity of Iraq. Attacked, angry, and very aggressive. Not entirely unjustified, though utterly intent to kill.
The UIT and pirates take different angles on the same idea, get rich quick. One with markets and the other with extortion.
IMPORTANT: I'm about to make references to the present day. I do not present politics as the topic, merely for reference to illustrate my point. The views expressed do not mirror my own.
If the Itani seem more isolationist than pacifist, it would go a long way toward eliminating the good guys bad guys idea. Picture Switzerland nuking someone and arguing that they had every right to do so, then declaring themselves above conflict forever forward. The Akanese are that 'nuke them' arm, and the remainder of the Itani represent the 'you can't attack us, we're too good for fighting wars.' The two are absolutely essential to one another, creating a two-faced sort of politics that make the Serco aggression seem justified.
The Serco can have a reunification angle added, but the basis of the conflict is revenge. We can't lose sight of that. Think USA in Afghanistan before the stupidity of Iraq. Attacked, angry, and very aggressive. Not entirely unjustified, though utterly intent to kill.
The UIT and pirates take different angles on the same idea, get rich quick. One with markets and the other with extortion.
Ok, OK, i will stop with teh *wussies*, lets just call them "independent merchants".
Only thing is, that sounds very tempting for wussies, heh.
I am not sure that kind of description will significantly reduce new UIT chars creation.
P.S. I am glad you grasped the concept of Itani/Akanese and the reason why am I trying to push Akanese into existence.
Only thing is, that sounds very tempting for wussies, heh.
I am not sure that kind of description will significantly reduce new UIT chars creation.
P.S. I am glad you grasped the concept of Itani/Akanese and the reason why am I trying to push Akanese into existence.
*bump*
so, there clearly is a problem. no one denies it. what can be done?
1) write new intro text for the character creation screen.
i've been told by a dev that any good suggestion that makes sense could easily find it's way into the client.
2) finish up the serco-side back story.
i actually started an outline of history to fill the gap. there's actually some details in the backstory during that 1800 years of "missing" info but even that leaves a lot of holes to be plugged.
if you have good writing (or moderately good one that can be fixed up without rewriting) and preferably have written up some RP before that, you can send me an email at upper_case (at) mac (dot) com. we'll arrange to distribute the workload on writing the serco backstory.
so, there clearly is a problem. no one denies it. what can be done?
1) write new intro text for the character creation screen.
i've been told by a dev that any good suggestion that makes sense could easily find it's way into the client.
2) finish up the serco-side back story.
i actually started an outline of history to fill the gap. there's actually some details in the backstory during that 1800 years of "missing" info but even that leaves a lot of holes to be plugged.
if you have good writing (or moderately good one that can be fixed up without rewriting) and preferably have written up some RP before that, you can send me an email at upper_case (at) mac (dot) com. we'll arrange to distribute the workload on writing the serco backstory.
to adress item 1, let's see what you folks can think of (i'll be writing my suggestion a bit later).
the current text is:
Itani
The Itani are an advanced people, having the longest history of space travel among the three races. Their civilisation, living in isolation for a thousand years, has made great development in science, the arts, and spiritual, mental, and martial powers. hoever, a darkness lingers in their past. The Serco, once fellow colonists on Terra II, suffered countless atrocities commanded by the purist Itani leaders. The climatic battle of this war drove the Itani people near to extinction, and they fled the planet in search for a new life. Though the culture as a whole has moved beyond their bloody past, the Serco seem committed to reviving old hatreds, and the Itani have had no choice but to fight back.
Serco
The Serco Dominion is a proud nation, valuing personal strength and honor in combat above all else. They were once a peaceful people, scientists and thinkers whose advanced research methods proved crucial for the Exiles' survival. However, philosophical and cultural differences with the other Terra II colonists quickly began to alienate the Serco people, eventually leading to all-out war. Their enemies, the Itani, were driven off the planet, and the Serco military leaders installed a provisional government to protect it's people against any futur attacks. This government, and the culture of war it fostered, have persisted for over a thousand years, leaving the Serco with the largets military in known space.
Wus^H^H^H UIT
The Unition of independent Territories is a loosely knit union of corporations, merchants and explorers clinging to life in deep space. They are widely revered as innovators, as life without a homeworld [sic] has called for truly unique advances in space station and ship construction technology. However, this societal structure has also made UIT space a haven for pirates, unscrupulous merchants, and the results of autonomous technological experiments gone awry. Like the Itani, the UIT has occasionally fallen under the ill graces of the Serco. However, many UIT merchants have highly advantageous trade agreements with the Serco government, so past affronts are often overlooked.
the current text is:
Itani
The Itani are an advanced people, having the longest history of space travel among the three races. Their civilisation, living in isolation for a thousand years, has made great development in science, the arts, and spiritual, mental, and martial powers. hoever, a darkness lingers in their past. The Serco, once fellow colonists on Terra II, suffered countless atrocities commanded by the purist Itani leaders. The climatic battle of this war drove the Itani people near to extinction, and they fled the planet in search for a new life. Though the culture as a whole has moved beyond their bloody past, the Serco seem committed to reviving old hatreds, and the Itani have had no choice but to fight back.
Serco
The Serco Dominion is a proud nation, valuing personal strength and honor in combat above all else. They were once a peaceful people, scientists and thinkers whose advanced research methods proved crucial for the Exiles' survival. However, philosophical and cultural differences with the other Terra II colonists quickly began to alienate the Serco people, eventually leading to all-out war. Their enemies, the Itani, were driven off the planet, and the Serco military leaders installed a provisional government to protect it's people against any futur attacks. This government, and the culture of war it fostered, have persisted for over a thousand years, leaving the Serco with the largets military in known space.
Wus^H^H^H UIT
The Unition of independent Territories is a loosely knit union of corporations, merchants and explorers clinging to life in deep space. They are widely revered as innovators, as life without a homeworld [sic] has called for truly unique advances in space station and ship construction technology. However, this societal structure has also made UIT space a haven for pirates, unscrupulous merchants, and the results of autonomous technological experiments gone awry. Like the Itani, the UIT has occasionally fallen under the ill graces of the Serco. However, many UIT merchants have highly advantageous trade agreements with the Serco government, so past affronts are often overlooked.
one of my gripes in the intro text is that it introduces a number of factoids that are misleading.
they're actually facts in the backstory but there's no way to act on them in-game so they become misleading lures and i think those are in favor of the itani.
ITANI:
i would remove any mention of:
great development in science, the arts, and spiritual, mental, and martial powers
the facts are that the Itani has exactly the same level of development as other races. they dont have better ships (they should), they dont have better weapons (they should) and there's no way i can go ape-crazy in karate moves onto a serco.
i would change the following:
the Serco seem committed to reviving old hatreds
er... justly so damnit. the itani have never done squat to stop the akanese and thus, the itani have basically declared open war. so the serco response, back-story -wise, is basically self defense if you ask me. but that makes it sound as though the itani are the good guys while in fact, it's not that clear cut.
SERCO:
i would remove any mention of:
mentions of "Exiles", "Terra II" and other elements not in-game. the proper terms for that would be "" and "Serco Prime".
they're not terms used in-game and unless you read the backstory, doesn't tell you anything.
i would change the following:
the other Terra II colonists quickly began to alienate the Serco
well i'd be allienated if i was being bombarded all the time all right. scrap that.
However, philosophical and cultural differences with the other Terra II colonists eventually leading to all-out war.
is quite sufficient.
This government, and the culture of war it fostered, needs a bit more:
This government, and the culture of war it fostered for centuries of peace, until a rogue Itani group appeared spying on them and eventually nuked the planet. Open war was declared.
i would scrap leaving the Serco with the largets military in known space. that's currently not the case at this point.
UIT:
i would remove any mention of:
truly unique advances in space station
all nations have the same kind of stations. meh.
i would change the following:
Like the Itani, the UIT has occasionally fallen under the ill graces of the Serco
this against depicts the serco as the bad guys. i'd change it to:
The UIT has occasionally been caught at the center of the Serco-Itani war as they try to keep neutral and supply both sides.
the UIT text also needs the word "wuss" somewhere. ;-)
they're actually facts in the backstory but there's no way to act on them in-game so they become misleading lures and i think those are in favor of the itani.
ITANI:
i would remove any mention of:
great development in science, the arts, and spiritual, mental, and martial powers
the facts are that the Itani has exactly the same level of development as other races. they dont have better ships (they should), they dont have better weapons (they should) and there's no way i can go ape-crazy in karate moves onto a serco.
i would change the following:
the Serco seem committed to reviving old hatreds
er... justly so damnit. the itani have never done squat to stop the akanese and thus, the itani have basically declared open war. so the serco response, back-story -wise, is basically self defense if you ask me. but that makes it sound as though the itani are the good guys while in fact, it's not that clear cut.
SERCO:
i would remove any mention of:
mentions of "Exiles", "Terra II" and other elements not in-game. the proper terms for that would be "" and "Serco Prime".
they're not terms used in-game and unless you read the backstory, doesn't tell you anything.
i would change the following:
the other Terra II colonists quickly began to alienate the Serco
well i'd be allienated if i was being bombarded all the time all right. scrap that.
However, philosophical and cultural differences with the other Terra II colonists eventually leading to all-out war.
is quite sufficient.
This government, and the culture of war it fostered, needs a bit more:
This government, and the culture of war it fostered for centuries of peace, until a rogue Itani group appeared spying on them and eventually nuked the planet. Open war was declared.
i would scrap leaving the Serco with the largets military in known space. that's currently not the case at this point.
UIT:
i would remove any mention of:
truly unique advances in space station
all nations have the same kind of stations. meh.
i would change the following:
Like the Itani, the UIT has occasionally fallen under the ill graces of the Serco
this against depicts the serco as the bad guys. i'd change it to:
The UIT has occasionally been caught at the center of the Serco-Itani war as they try to keep neutral and supply both sides.
the UIT text also needs the word "wuss" somewhere. ;-)
*sigh*
I am Itani.. I kinda like the way their background sounds.
THAT is a prime example of the problem.
I am Itani.. I kinda like the way their background sounds.
THAT is a prime example of the problem.
"and itani for fighters/explorers?"
Aren't Itani supposed to be pacifists/explorers?
EDIT: I fully intend to revisit this in the near future.
Aren't Itani supposed to be pacifists/explorers?
EDIT: I fully intend to revisit this in the near future.
Well pacifists yes, but after a couple of hundred years of war you must have warriors appear.
Firstly, I must admit to skimming the background when I first read it, but the impression that I got was that the Itani were religious nutcases who, having a hatred of technology, had forced the Serco into a war. The fact that the Serco managed to win the war wasn't the fault of the Serco.
Later events seemed to be a mixture of bad luck and bad decisions made by individuals on both sides. Later Serco hatred was created by initial Itani intolerance.
At least, that was what I got out of my skim read.
My first character was UIT, my second Serco. Unfortunately I don't play the Serco very much because he's very similar in style to the UIT character (both are traders). My third character, designed to be a far more aggressive 'test' character is Itani and ends up being played more than the Serco when I want to try something stupid.
Possibly one 'fix' would be to change the descriptions at character generation to be more subjective - give each side a chance to sell itself. It doesn't have to be entirely accurate, and they can be mutually contradictory. Possibly allow each side to give their opinion on the others.
Another idea might be to give Serco/Itani characters more support at the start. They are backed by larger governments than the UIT, so maybe both Serco and Itani get better free stuff than the UIT do. This helps both of the major factions (though doesn't have to be balanced) at the expense of the UIT.
Finally, if the Itani are supposed to be pacifist, shouldn't they have more restrictions on what they sell? I haven't checked, but the Itani seem to just as happy to sell weapons as the Serco do.
Later events seemed to be a mixture of bad luck and bad decisions made by individuals on both sides. Later Serco hatred was created by initial Itani intolerance.
At least, that was what I got out of my skim read.
My first character was UIT, my second Serco. Unfortunately I don't play the Serco very much because he's very similar in style to the UIT character (both are traders). My third character, designed to be a far more aggressive 'test' character is Itani and ends up being played more than the Serco when I want to try something stupid.
Possibly one 'fix' would be to change the descriptions at character generation to be more subjective - give each side a chance to sell itself. It doesn't have to be entirely accurate, and they can be mutually contradictory. Possibly allow each side to give their opinion on the others.
Another idea might be to give Serco/Itani characters more support at the start. They are backed by larger governments than the UIT, so maybe both Serco and Itani get better free stuff than the UIT do. This helps both of the major factions (though doesn't have to be balanced) at the expense of the UIT.
Finally, if the Itani are supposed to be pacifist, shouldn't they have more restrictions on what they sell? I haven't checked, but the Itani seem to just as happy to sell weapons as the Serco do.