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WARNING, FAILPOST AHEAD
It has traditionally been done like Aramarth said; Greyspace is like the new frontier. Or to be more accurate, Greyspace is the new frontier, conquered by pirates.
Processed goods should be very profitable, along with other necessities and comforts.
This should form a lil' circle of life ; National space provides advanced manufacturing and processing, who needs basic and exotic minerals. The people living in national space constantly seek new excitement.
Greyspace has different priorities; they have to worry about surviving. Outside of the Corvus corporation, some of the more 'fringe' stations should be buy up the essential space goods; Parts, then food, then other support items. People inside of Corvus would want everything from literature to high art to earthly summers holodisks.
Oh, I also think that there should be more greyspace added ASAP. Right now, greyspace is not atmospherically "fringe space". It's just corporation-owned space (Or, more heavily bot infested space) It would be so much better if it had several more systems separating grey from the nationals. Increasing the depth of grey space would serve several on-topic purposes;
It would make trading there more difficult and outside of national space, increasing demand on both sides, along with making it 'dangerouser'. It would add more exploration as it is, (A 'low hanging fruit', incarnate. And a chance to test out your new universe mechanics)
Along with a chance for some experimentation with new ores- see how adding a unique ore in one system effects demand and such. And of course, you'd have a chance to use those 'green fog' stations, or maybe finally a NFZ-free station? :D
It has traditionally been done like Aramarth said; Greyspace is like the new frontier. Or to be more accurate, Greyspace is the new frontier, conquered by pirates.
Processed goods should be very profitable, along with other necessities and comforts.
This should form a lil' circle of life ; National space provides advanced manufacturing and processing, who needs basic and exotic minerals. The people living in national space constantly seek new excitement.
Greyspace has different priorities; they have to worry about surviving. Outside of the Corvus corporation, some of the more 'fringe' stations should be buy up the essential space goods; Parts, then food, then other support items. People inside of Corvus would want everything from literature to high art to earthly summers holodisks.
Oh, I also think that there should be more greyspace added ASAP. Right now, greyspace is not atmospherically "fringe space". It's just corporation-owned space (Or, more heavily bot infested space) It would be so much better if it had several more systems separating grey from the nationals. Increasing the depth of grey space would serve several on-topic purposes;
It would make trading there more difficult and outside of national space, increasing demand on both sides, along with making it 'dangerouser'. It would add more exploration as it is, (A 'low hanging fruit', incarnate. And a chance to test out your new universe mechanics)
Along with a chance for some experimentation with new ores- see how adding a unique ore in one system effects demand and such. And of course, you'd have a chance to use those 'green fog' stations, or maybe finally a NFZ-free station? :D
I see us touching upon the foundation of trading here- needs and filling those needs, supply & demand, scarcity, however you want to phrase it. Since I don't feel like retyping stuff I've already typed, I'll just work on dredging up old threads for Fun & Profit.
I'll just outline my reasoning on resource distribution given there a bit further. I fully expect that the current nations were founded in places that had items of value- all of VO was founded on a habitable planet, the Serco simply got to have it as their home after chasing off everyone else. The Itani found another habitable planet, while the UIT were explicitly founded and moved into a resource-rich area. All this happened in the distant past, story-wise. Over time, the resources that drew the initial settlers were naturally exhausted. For there to be extremely large deposits of valuable resources in any nation home system after a few millennia is absurd.
Yes, there's the "Why would the Romans mine Bauxite" reasoning for introducing new resources into home systems. I do agree with this, and feel that revolutionary metallurgical advances would be a good mechanism for introducing a few new ores as time goes by. However, that's not what's going on. We're reshuffling the ores and goods to better reflect a natural progression of trade and growth, now that the devs actually have the time to put effort into it. The current distribution is illogical and as such should be changed.
Once the ores get to the "rare" level (which I consider to be all ores that provide 10 exp per cu or more), I fully expect all significant deposits of such to have been completely stripped from the home systems, and only occasionally available in nation space. Once we reach the badge-ores (Denic, Pentric, and Heliocene) I don't expect them to be found anywhere but greyspace, because they're so valuable that they get mined out before a nation can finish securing the system as their territory. This is a natural effect of resource demand- the closest, most available supplies get used up first. For example, Pennsylvania used to be the oil heartland of the US back in the 1800s, but since the resource was so readily available, it was entirely consumed over a period of decades. Now there are only pitiful quantities of oil remaining, and almost none that would justify the time and effort to extract it. However, the people and infastructure that came to use the oil are still there, resulting in a manufacturing-heavy area with few remaining natural resources. A similar story has been told, with different locations and resources, throughout history. Mining leads to manufacturing, manufacturing leads to a large population, and a large population leads to a self-sustaining city that will persist even after the mining has come to its natural conclusion.
The VO universe should work the same way. Mining stations spring up next to important new resource fields, extensive development should change them to manufacturing (which I see as being fairly light industry), and from there they become military barracks/research/capitol(heavy industry) if the right spatial/political features exist to support them once the resources are gone. Commercial stations are unique in that their reason for being should be their location- along intersecting trade routes.
Trade good availability should reflect this. I firmly believe that all ores should be available to buy somewhere, even if it's only at one station. Fringe territories should have the rare ores, greyspace should have the exotics, and home systems should count their lucky stars if they can offer something as good as Xithricite. Alternately, the newness of the greyspace stations should make them have poor production abilities in comparison to the vast industrial and commercial manufacturing complexes of the home systems. Sure, they can probably make some alloys, but everything beyond that requires facilities that simply aren't available in the wilds. Mildly complex items and special orders can be made in the nation outskirts, but the real bulk manufacturing ability should only exist in the home systems. Resources are acquired and shipped in, processed into finished goods, and shipped back out to sustain the highly dependent fringe. It's this constant back-and-forth need for a flow that should drive galactic trade. If goods and ores continue to be rather haphazardly scattered across the universe, then in-system trade will continue to be the primary method of good moving.
I suppose that means a shakedown of station types is also in order, to better reflect how they would have developed. Kick those mining stations out of Dau and bring in those commercial stations. Who would bother to keep a huge mining station going when all that's around (or going to be around, post ore revamp) to mine is a bunch of Ferric and Aquean?
*starts chanting*
SHIP OUT GOODS!~
SHIP IN ORES!~
LONG-HAUL PROFITS~ WILL BE OURS!
I'll just outline my reasoning on resource distribution given there a bit further. I fully expect that the current nations were founded in places that had items of value- all of VO was founded on a habitable planet, the Serco simply got to have it as their home after chasing off everyone else. The Itani found another habitable planet, while the UIT were explicitly founded and moved into a resource-rich area. All this happened in the distant past, story-wise. Over time, the resources that drew the initial settlers were naturally exhausted. For there to be extremely large deposits of valuable resources in any nation home system after a few millennia is absurd.
Yes, there's the "Why would the Romans mine Bauxite" reasoning for introducing new resources into home systems. I do agree with this, and feel that revolutionary metallurgical advances would be a good mechanism for introducing a few new ores as time goes by. However, that's not what's going on. We're reshuffling the ores and goods to better reflect a natural progression of trade and growth, now that the devs actually have the time to put effort into it. The current distribution is illogical and as such should be changed.
Once the ores get to the "rare" level (which I consider to be all ores that provide 10 exp per cu or more), I fully expect all significant deposits of such to have been completely stripped from the home systems, and only occasionally available in nation space. Once we reach the badge-ores (Denic, Pentric, and Heliocene) I don't expect them to be found anywhere but greyspace, because they're so valuable that they get mined out before a nation can finish securing the system as their territory. This is a natural effect of resource demand- the closest, most available supplies get used up first. For example, Pennsylvania used to be the oil heartland of the US back in the 1800s, but since the resource was so readily available, it was entirely consumed over a period of decades. Now there are only pitiful quantities of oil remaining, and almost none that would justify the time and effort to extract it. However, the people and infastructure that came to use the oil are still there, resulting in a manufacturing-heavy area with few remaining natural resources. A similar story has been told, with different locations and resources, throughout history. Mining leads to manufacturing, manufacturing leads to a large population, and a large population leads to a self-sustaining city that will persist even after the mining has come to its natural conclusion.
The VO universe should work the same way. Mining stations spring up next to important new resource fields, extensive development should change them to manufacturing (which I see as being fairly light industry), and from there they become military barracks/research/capitol(heavy industry) if the right spatial/political features exist to support them once the resources are gone. Commercial stations are unique in that their reason for being should be their location- along intersecting trade routes.
Trade good availability should reflect this. I firmly believe that all ores should be available to buy somewhere, even if it's only at one station. Fringe territories should have the rare ores, greyspace should have the exotics, and home systems should count their lucky stars if they can offer something as good as Xithricite. Alternately, the newness of the greyspace stations should make them have poor production abilities in comparison to the vast industrial and commercial manufacturing complexes of the home systems. Sure, they can probably make some alloys, but everything beyond that requires facilities that simply aren't available in the wilds. Mildly complex items and special orders can be made in the nation outskirts, but the real bulk manufacturing ability should only exist in the home systems. Resources are acquired and shipped in, processed into finished goods, and shipped back out to sustain the highly dependent fringe. It's this constant back-and-forth need for a flow that should drive galactic trade. If goods and ores continue to be rather haphazardly scattered across the universe, then in-system trade will continue to be the primary method of good moving.
I suppose that means a shakedown of station types is also in order, to better reflect how they would have developed. Kick those mining stations out of Dau and bring in those commercial stations. Who would bother to keep a huge mining station going when all that's around (or going to be around, post ore revamp) to mine is a bunch of Ferric and Aquean?
*starts chanting*
SHIP OUT GOODS!~
SHIP IN ORES!~
LONG-HAUL PROFITS~ WILL BE OURS!
I see one flaw with your post IRS, and its really not a flaw, as more of nuance of gameplay..
Now enough jargon, what I'm referring to is the fact that the roids dont seem to contain any finite amount of resources, the only limiting factor is their heat. This is not really realistic, and I think it would add a dynamic to gameplay if ores could be depleted, but would have to be counteracted in some way where the ore thats being depleted becomes more abundant somewhere else, such that the actual amount of ore never decreases, but becomes shuffled to less trafficked areas. Even oil returns after millions of years, hopefully ore can be replenished through some quicker mechanism.
Now enough jargon, what I'm referring to is the fact that the roids dont seem to contain any finite amount of resources, the only limiting factor is their heat. This is not really realistic, and I think it would add a dynamic to gameplay if ores could be depleted, but would have to be counteracted in some way where the ore thats being depleted becomes more abundant somewhere else, such that the actual amount of ore never decreases, but becomes shuffled to less trafficked areas. Even oil returns after millions of years, hopefully ore can be replenished through some quicker mechanism.
Generally, when you pull rocks out of other rocks, they don't reappear in the same rocks you pulled them out of. Oil is based off the decay of dead plants and animals over long periods of time under certain conditions, so it's a bit of a different matter. To say ores should be a renewable resource is a bit strange.
However, I do agree that neverending supplies of raw resources is a bit unrealistic, but it's that way for gameplay reasons. It'd be a bit unfriendly to new players to pop into the game and all the ore until you get 80 systems out is completely mined out, and beyond that you only have ferric ore until 140 systems out.
However, I do agree that neverending supplies of raw resources is a bit unrealistic, but it's that way for gameplay reasons. It'd be a bit unfriendly to new players to pop into the game and all the ore until you get 80 systems out is completely mined out, and beyond that you only have ferric ore until 140 systems out.
Dunno if anyone has said it yet, but sale prices for items that can be purchased within the same system should be perpetually crashed to the point of making profits paltry. Trade rewards should be proportional to distance, risk, scarcity (let things run out!) and outlay (gotta spend money to make money).
For game play betterment and to match real life the profit for shipping low value items needs to be close to that of the high value items. In example if luxury buys for 1000 at one station and sells for 2000 at destination then water should buy for 10 but sell for 950 at same destination if both needed there.
I have formal training in area but a easier area to explain is use a simple game mechanic example.
If price of good bought increased if sold 10% say in a month if enough sold and fell 10% if not sold enough and at destination prices payed for goods rose 10% a month if demand not met and fell 10% if demand was meet. You would find over time that people would carry luxury goods causing there price to raise at source and fall at destination while the neglect of water would cause over time it's price at source to lower and price at destination rise till you would get the same profit carring a load of water or luxury goods.
Now local sale conditions and the fact that pirates like to steal more expensive cargo will tend to make the profit for luxury good shipping normally higher but not that much.
Other game reason for this is why have something sold that no one carries as it clutters things up with no practical use.
Real life example of reason. Railroad charges the same per ton for loading a box car no matter what you ship in it if no special handling needed.
Real life you can look up the fact that mark up of food vs luxury goods source to destination is roughly close but easy way to view it is Walmart has grown rich buying and shipping cheap stuff.
IRS is very right on how the ores would work. Depleting an ore resource roid might take awhile like years so there might not need to be any game play adjustment. But in game history terms of a thousand years you would expect any of the rare ores to be mined out in developed areas. It's nice that this fits good game play well as you want rare ores in your danger new areas.
Idea of having developed goods in good areas to trade back also realistic and good game play.
If prices adjust you will see any short trade opportunities used up quickly so any new area or reset area should be set up as if that already done.
I have formal training in area but a easier area to explain is use a simple game mechanic example.
If price of good bought increased if sold 10% say in a month if enough sold and fell 10% if not sold enough and at destination prices payed for goods rose 10% a month if demand not met and fell 10% if demand was meet. You would find over time that people would carry luxury goods causing there price to raise at source and fall at destination while the neglect of water would cause over time it's price at source to lower and price at destination rise till you would get the same profit carring a load of water or luxury goods.
Now local sale conditions and the fact that pirates like to steal more expensive cargo will tend to make the profit for luxury good shipping normally higher but not that much.
Other game reason for this is why have something sold that no one carries as it clutters things up with no practical use.
Real life example of reason. Railroad charges the same per ton for loading a box car no matter what you ship in it if no special handling needed.
Real life you can look up the fact that mark up of food vs luxury goods source to destination is roughly close but easy way to view it is Walmart has grown rich buying and shipping cheap stuff.
IRS is very right on how the ores would work. Depleting an ore resource roid might take awhile like years so there might not need to be any game play adjustment. But in game history terms of a thousand years you would expect any of the rare ores to be mined out in developed areas. It's nice that this fits good game play well as you want rare ores in your danger new areas.
Idea of having developed goods in good areas to trade back also realistic and good game play.
If prices adjust you will see any short trade opportunities used up quickly so any new area or reset area should be set up as if that already done.
Yes, well, I have formal training in volume. Take that.