Forums » Suggestions

Ion storm jump engine random interference (random sectors / uncharted sectors)

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May 02, 2010 PaladinOfLancelot link
For now, the Ion storms don't do anything particularly interesting except interrupting travels and limiting radar range.

But thinking logically, if the ion storm can interrupt the jump in progress, why shouldn't it be able to interrupt the jump being started ?

So, getting to the point: I think that there should be a (small) probability that when trying to jump-out of ion storm, jump engine may malfunction and send You somewhere far far away in space, perhaps into some totally uncharted territory on the other end of the galaxy.

Because You have completely no idea where You are (and You are very far from starting point - maybe in another galaxy or in another realm), there is no normal way to plot course from there. The only thing You can do is to plot a course back (Your ship's computer can do that by just reversing jump parameters).

The sector You jump into could either be generated completely at random every time, or there could be "presets" of different sector combinations, which would be chosen at random. For example:

- You jump into a totally empty sector. There is nothing in there.
- You jump into a sector containing extremely large amounts of roids with very rare ores and nothing else
- You jump into a sector full of bots that are nothing like the bots You have ever seen (and of course use deadly weapons You have never seen), You can choose to fight them or run.
- You jump into a sector full of floating ship debris and totally-alien weapons/equipment You can't buy anywhere in the known space.
- You jump into a sector with some other EXTREMELY valuable stuff in it.
- You jump into a sector with station of an unknown alien race, they attack You.
- You jump into a sector with station of an unknown alien race, they are peaceful and You can trade with them (of course the goods bought there are extremely valuable in the "known" parts of space).
- You jump into a sector containing damaged unmanned TOTALLY-ALIEN nothing-like-you-have-seen-before ship, which You can take over (perhaps even Capital ship when users will be able to control them).
- The sector can be a combination of few of the above (for example bots + good ore, or unmanned ship + ship debris)
- Etc etc - hunderends different ideas can be implanted here. Just watch some "Star trek voyager" to get more ideas.
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The whole mechanism could work in the following way:
1. You jump into ion storm, go to exit point
2. You try to jump out of ion storm
3. There is 4% probability that the jump engine will malfunction. Out of this 4%, there is:
- 35% probability of jumping into a random sector in the same system (total 1.40%)
- 15% probability of jumping into random sector in random known system (total 0.60%)
- 50% probability of jumping into a randomly generated sector in uncharted space (total 2%)
4. Let's say You jump into uncharted space.
5. You do something there (mine, fight, run, trade or whatever)
6. You jump back to the sector with ion storm (the only thing You can do).
7. GOTO 2 - try to jump out of ion storm (unless the storm is over already).

IMHO adding "random feature" like this one could add a lot of juice/spark to the game.

Of course, the part with uncharted random sectors will be probably fairly difficult or time consuming to implement, but the part with random *known* sector/random *known* system-sector seems very easy to do.
May 02, 2010 Kierky link
Yeah and when you arrive in the ion storm, there should be ponies, and monsters seeking candies in the closet.
May 03, 2010 PaladinOfLancelot link
@Kierky

Yeah and when you arrive in the ion storm, there should be ponies, and monsters seeking candies in the closet.

I didn't really want going to the extreme, but perhaps You should talk to the devs to make a version with some monsters & ponies specially for You.

BTW. I'm actually starting to like the trolling on this forum. Carry this on, it will be fun ;)
May 03, 2010 Kierky link
Well, Inc has promised many of us ponies ingame, though I guess it's just another soonTM.

In case my trolling did not indicate, aliens are a really fucking retarded idea.

I do, however like the idea of attempting to jump out of an ion storm sends you to a random sector.
May 03, 2010 PaladinOfLancelot link
@Kierky

In case my trolling did not indicate, aliens are a really fucking retarded idea.

You may be right, however that doesn't matter really. That's just a detail.

The general idea is that when jump engine malfunctions, something extraordinary and unexpected happens and you're sent into some fcuking weird place that's not present on any maps.

In that fcukin weird place You can get items, fight bots, mine ores which don't exist anywhere else in the known universe.

That should be interesting and would add a lot of juice to the game. As we all know, nobody likes monotony.
May 03, 2010 Infinitis link
Well, the truth is that actual ION storms are boring and there is a lot of them. That makes a very bad combination.
May 03, 2010 PaladinOfLancelot link
@Infinitis

Well, the truth is that actual ION storms are boring and there is a lot of them. That makes a very bad combination.

Exactly.

1. This will make ion storms interesting, because now when you get to ion storm there's a probability of getting something cool out of it.
2. The percentages can be adjusted properly, so the probability of jumping god-knows-where won't be too annoying.
May 03, 2010 Alloh link
+1 to random jumps on ion storms

-1 to any alien

+1 to uncharted sectors. That can become the embryo and testbed from universe redux.

* While there, does comms works? /100 becomes muted? Even more funny, you start seeing the chat from days ago?
May 03, 2010 PaladinOfLancelot link
@Alloh

-1 to any alien

For now, agreed. Too difficult to implement.
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While there, does comms works? /100 becomes muted?

Excellent idea !! Everything becomes muted (except sector chat), because You're too far away to contact anything in the known universe!
+ 1
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Even more funny, you start seeing the chat from days ago?

Hmmm. Temporal disruptions. Seems interesting :). However, some people will view this as stupid idea.
+1
May 03, 2010 toshiro link
These forums do not require filter-circumvention methods.

That is all.
May 03, 2010 Dr. Lecter link
Estrogen won the thread via AVP, and I expect that he'll call for its dissolution.
Aug 31, 2010 PaladinOfLancelot link
Conception update based on discussion & new ideas.

General conception:
There should be a (small) probability that when trying to jump-out of ion storm, jump engine may malfunction and send You somewhere far far away in space, perhaps into some totally uncharted territory on the other end of the galaxy.

Because You have completely no idea where You are (and You are very far from starting point - maybe in another galaxy or in another realm), there is no normal way to plot course from there. The only thing You can do is to plot a course back (Your ship's computer can do that by just reversing jump parameters).

Details:
+ The sector You jump into could either be generated completely at random every time, or there could be "presets" of different sector combinations, which would be chosen at random.
+ Suggested possibilities for the stuff found in uncharted sectors:
..... * You jump into a totally empty sector. There is nothing in there.
..... * You jump into a sector containing extremely large amounts of roids with very rare ores and nothing else
..... * You jump into a sector full of bots that are nothing like the bots You have ever seen (and of course use deadly weapons You have never seen), You can choose to fight them or run.
..... * You jump into a sector full of floating ship debris and totally-alien weapons/equipment You can't buy anywhere in the known space.
..... * You jump into a sector with some other EXTREMELY valuable stuff in it.
..... * The sector can be a combination of few of the above (for example bots + good ore, or unmanned ship + ship debris)
..... * Etc etc - hundereds of different ideas can be implanted here.
+ Every channel on chat becomes muted until You get back to normal (known) space.
+ Normal navigation screen doesn't work (is blank or something). There is only one button/writing on the screen - "plot course back".

Advantages:
+ Makes the game MUCH more entertaining
+ Makes the game more unpredictable (and unpredictability kills boredom)
+ That can become the embryo and testbed from universe redux (Alloh's comment).

Fixes for annoyances:
+ The shorter the jump is, the smaller probability of engine malfunction. For one-sector-length jumps, the probability may be almost unexistant, and rising exponentially for greater distances. So, If You want to avoid problems when jumping out of storm, just make a very short jump to escape the storm.
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EDIT: Example algorithm conception update:

1. You jump into ion storm, go to exit point

2. You try to jump out of ion storm

3a. If the jump is one sector long, there is X = 1% total probability that the jump engine will malfunction
3a. If the jump is 2 sectors long, there is X = 2% total probability that the jump engine will malfunction
3c. If the jump is 3 or more sectors long, there is X = 4% total probability that the jump engine will malfunction.

Out of this X%, there is:
- 35% probability of jumping into a random sector in the same system
- 15% probability of jumping into random sector in random known system
- 50% probability of jumping into a randomly generated sector in uncharted space

4. Let's say You jump into uncharted space.

5. You do something there (mine, fight, run, trade or whatever)

6. You jump back to the sector with ion storm (the only thing You can do).

7. GOTO 2 - try to jump out of ion storm (unless the storm is over already).
Aug 31, 2010 yodaofborg link
Makes no sense. Sorry, yeah, it's just a game, but things have got to be kept real on some level. Take this example, the *jump drive* you refer to is for intra-system travel and cannot be used to travel between systems, A worm hole is required for that. A storm exit point is not a worm hole, it's just the place in the storm with least interference allowing you to jump.

Also just so you are aware, although jumping/exiting a storm and using a worm hole looks very similar right now, thats only because the *old* jump effect was removed. upon jumping/exiting a storm the ships used to fly forward at a very high velocity, it was removed due to abuse. So one has to ask, how the hell can an intra-system jump drive *malfunction* and throw you light years away? Simple answer, it cannot.
Aug 31, 2010 PaladinOfLancelot link
@yodaofborg

[[[Makes no sense. Sorry, yeah, it's just a game,]]]

Yes its just a game. A game which could be 10 X as interesting and entertaining as it is now. With proper set of ideas that add juice & unpredictability.
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[[but things have got to be kept real on some level.]]]

No, things don't have to be kept real,because It's just a game.
A game is not "real" by any definition. Everything we do in that "game" is far from reality.

And even speaking about the real life, IRL malfunctions & anomalies still happen. Think of the sudden-apearing-out-of-nowhere tidal wawes of 30m and more height, while sea is steady. It's a known phenomenon happening on seas in real life, affecting ships.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rogue_wave

So, making an analogy (and some technobabble), ion storm engine malfunction can be caused by a natural phenomenon called "rogue subspace disruption wave" which pushes ship far far away when the engine tries to jump in the vicinity of such wave passing in the subspace.

This can happen only in the Ion storm, because exotic particles of Ion storm tear apart the boundary between space & subspace, so the rogue waves can affect ship's engines.
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[[[Take this example, the *jump drive* you refer to is for intra-system travel and cannot be used to travel between systems,]]]

It doesn't matter. As You said - It's just a game. Whatever we think out, we can make real.

You can't stop imagination with foolish & limiting reality. Without imagination the humanity would get nowhere, because everybody would say "Nah, that's stupid and impossible. Can't be done.".
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[[[A worm hole is required for that. A storm exit point is not a worm hole, it's just the place in the storm with least interference allowing you to jump.]]]

Why limit Your mind so much ?
It doesn't matter. "Wormhole is required" is just a rule. We can change rules & break rules & make exceptions.

Come on - it's just a game.
Aug 31, 2010 yodaofborg link
OK then, if we can magically jump across systems, then we should have no problem getting back to Earth right? Game over dude, game over.

There DOES need to be a level of realism, or you may as well just delete the backstory, delete all info on how engines work, stick us in a 9 worm hole system with maybe 10 or so hidden systems, and remove the jump drive, be called *Red, Blue and Gold team* :P Oh wait, that was late Alpha...
Aug 31, 2010 PaladinOfLancelot link
@yodaofborg

[[[OK then, if we can magically jump across systems, then we should have no problem getting back to Earth right? Game over dude, game over.]]]

I think You misunderstood.

The problem with _phenomenons_ is that they're unpredictable. So scientist for now can't find a way to use them to travel far far away. It's as simple as that.

Perhaps in thousands years (or Vendetta 3.0 :P) they will, and entire new way of wormhole-free intergalactic travel will be invented, but not yet. This could open a set of another potentially interesting conceptions, though.
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[[[There DOES need to be a level of realism,]]]

Anomalies are also real. And unpredictable. What's wrong with anomalies ?
I think that "rogue subspace wave" containing tachyons, muons & other exotic particles which can really mess Your engines is close to realism enough.
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[[[or you may as well just delete the backstory, delete all info on how engines work,]]]

No need for that. I can create any amount of believable technobabble - believe me, I'm good at it.

So no changes needed, everything stays as it was, except jumping out of storms.
Aug 31, 2010 yodaofborg link
Maybe if you kept the randomness to the same system (even maybe uncharted space in the same system) then I could buy it, being flung from a storm in Kraz to Deneb just isn't feasible dude, you do know the distances involved right? Some form of randomness in storms may add to the game play for you, but personally it would just make another reason to avoid the buggers!

Of course, that's just my opinion.
Aug 31, 2010 PaladinOfLancelot link
@yodaofborg

[[[Maybe if you kept the randomness to the same system (even maybe uncharted space in the same system) then I could buy it,]]]

It's just a game, so stop being so terribly serious. We have games so we can create a simulation of anything our imagination creates. If You treat a game 100% serious, then what is difference between game & real life ? None. That kills all the fun in it.
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[[[ being flung from a storm in Kraz to Deneb just isn't feasible dude,]]]

Of course it is feasible. It's all unreal anyway, so travelling far far away is just different form of unrealism.
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[[[you do know the distances involved right?]]]

"Distance" no longer exists if You fold/bend space. So what kind of "distance" are You talking about ?
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[[[but personally it would just make another reason to avoid the buggers!]]]

Actually, if it's profittable enough, people would go into storms just to get something out of it (the same as they did when storms gave You 400% XP when botting).

You see an Ion storm as an annoyance, but this can be easily changed. When You can turn annoyances into profits, then annoyances becomes just another way of earning profit & getting stuff.
Aug 31, 2010 yodaofborg link
Well, I don't care about profit, so I'll leave that comment well alone. But seriously, bend space? We don't have these fabled deflector arrays or such on VO ships, so where would we re-route power from the primary conduit to? :P

Why do I think so real? Because I indeed want a game to be fun, but also want it to provide an alternate reality. So yeah, there needs to be some form of realism. Bending space and whatnot just does not fit with the *current* base for this realism. Sure, things can change, stories can be made up, devices invented and such, but I just think it sensible to keep a bit of a lid on fantasy content. I mean FFS the devs even renamed Tachyon cannons to Neutron Blasters, because there's no proof Tachyon's exist!

I think if the idea was toned down a little bit, there's more chance of it being implemented. And please please please, no space bending :P
Aug 31, 2010 PaladinOfLancelot link
@yodaofborg

[[[Because I indeed want a game to be fun, but also want it to provide an alternate reality. So yeah, there needs to be some form of realism]]]

Realism ?

I will tell You what is wrong with realism. Reality is boring, dull, repetative & (in most everyday-life situations) 98% predictable.

So there is not much fun in reality. This is why we watch movies, play games, do unpredictable things - to EXTEND REALITY, and to make it more fun.

If people wanted to make games exactly like reality, 99% games would be like the sims.