Vengeance: Increase turbo drain to 60
IDF: decrease armor to rune level.
X-1: mirror the vengeance (or the idf)

Please lead your post with a +/- 1 for/against my idea(s).

Feel free to follow with your position, alternate suggestions, etc...

If you wish to debate someone else position, please include a link to the persons post you are debating.

My position:

I believe the valk is a galaxy wide problem. It is favored by the itani, as it should be. But it is also favored well outside itani circles, which helps to identify it as a problem ship.

It has been banned from the deneb races for being too fast. it is a favored ship in nation wars, by all sides. it is favored by pirates and anti pirates alike. even serco are known to drive valks. It is a ship with no equal, no mirror, and no match. it's effects are perhaps felt the hardest in deneb, by serco, whom, by the nature of their pursuits, can not obtain a valk.

it is the only ship that competes for top position in both chase and fighter categories at the same time. there is no ship that is significantly better in either category, much less both.

the valk, in it's current form, is a plague on the galaxy at large, due to no fault of any ship other than the valk itself.

Edit 2010 08 07 2:32
Crusader:
http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/23647/edit/294639
I appreciate Ghost starting a thread on pvp. However, Ghost perspective in many ways represents a regional perspective. I believe the valk to represent an issue far exceeding the region Ghost appears to be concerned with. Where Ghost has prefixed his concerns with serco/itani balance, i am prefixing mine with valk/ "the rest of the galaxy" concerns.

Tally:
.For: +2
look... no hands, Crusader8389

.Against:

.Unspecific:
Ghost, ShankTank, Jmvcilus, The Shedu, Alloh, drazzed, Maalic

I wholly agree with roda's position here.

The valk is flat out, the best fighter. And Unless your going further than 10km, the best chaser/runner. Even if the valk was a little slower than the hound it would hardly matter, once the chase is up, the valk is still a tough ship to beat, the hound, isn't.

I agree... the valk needs to be nerfed. But, Roda, isnt this being covered in the PvP thread by Ghost? Please move this convo/post there.

+1, x1 mirrors vengeance not idf though.

I don't see any mention of the the PvP thread by Ghost in your OP

I'm actually in support of this idea. Just still trying to hash out the alternatives/combinations in the other thread.

I think that dropping the IDF's armor to rune levels might be too much. IDF is still a relatively big target. Maybe something closer to 10500? That puts it at 1100 less than the vengeance and 1000 more than the rune.

On a side note, perhaps the x1 being the smaller profiled ship should use the lighter IDF stats as opposed to the heavier armored vengeance?

An interceptor of that caliber shouldn't have that much armor, in the first place. 9,500 armor is perfectly reasonable, considering that it would not receive any further stat reductions. All it does is punish people a little more for making mistakes, which I am generally in favor of.

not a good idea

With that big of a difference between the two, I think you may find this causes the extinction of the IDF as most will opt for the vengeance or x1.

Also, if this is implemented, we may as well just remove the Rune... not that that's a bad thing.

I noticed that the Rune was being overlooked in the suggestions, but I assumed that there would be some post-implementation balancing. We could always include a proportional increase in mass and thrust for the Rune... with a little more net acceleration power (more thrust than mass increase). It makes sense, anyways, since the Rune has a lower max turbo speed and has room to carry some cargo.

There is no nerf being suggested for the rune. the rune would become more viable than before. and it is the only one with 6 cargo. not being able to grab that floating ultra power cell is a big deal on some people's list.

Do you think that the rune and the valk1 also need a nerf? I was using them as a base for the other nerfs.

no

for me, slightly reduce turbo thrust, increase weight and decrease armour on all them but X1.

and X1 gets a major reduction in armour and spin torque.

Another idea to consider, reduce one port on most valks. X1, Rune and regular goes. While the ones with 3 ports gain +800kg.

Rethinkg my vote.

No nerfs. We need to raise the bar.

Make grayhound/SVG faster, make Prom3 more agile, etc.

Think this as a Serco reaction to itani superiority in group combat. Then Itan replies with a better heavy...

I dont think the rune needs a nerf, I just think the IDF should be somewhere in between the rune and the vengeance in terms of armor.

I would rather the X-1 remain a chaser, but looking at the stats it was obviously designed as a fighter. I can see the logic, and how the X-1 would be favored in the fighter role.

If this proposal gains consensus, the fate of the X-1 may need to be a new thread.

I would also like to find a better purpose for the Rune. Ever since infini-boost was removed it's lost its purpose. The extra 3 cargo spots are not a good enough reason to take such a significant loss in combat ability IMHO. Although that may be a discussion for a different topic as well.

On topic (kind of), I would support the X1 using the stats of the IDF instead of the vengeance.

The rune has an extra 4 cargo. most valks can not pick up a power cell. a rune can. i have on occasion seen the rune used, and would on occasion use it myself.

On a side note, if the valks in general are brought into balance, I could support an X-2 option, with the X-1 mirroring the vengeance, and the X-2 mirroring the IDF.

I like the idea Alloh. But we would need to decrease SVG's mass to around 3K kg or less, since it has less weapons ports then the valks, it should be the same or less weight. Also, decrease the wegiht of the centurion SL to something less ridiculously high (in comparison to the relatively bulky valks), as well as other centurion variants. This way, the valk won't have a clear advantage in a 1v1 fight with any other light fighter... that extra sunnie makes a huge difference Imo.

The valk is the PRIDE of the itani fleet, just as the prom is the PRIDE of the serco fleet... to criple either is foolish...

These ships should NOT be on-par with a vulture or any other fighter in the game, you're silly nerf stick idea is gonna COST the game and I STRONGLY disagree with it.

BEGIN SARCASM...How about we just SCRAP all the ships except the EC-89, that's the only one noobs can get anyways so it's unfair to have better ships in the game, this is about skill after all and EVERY ship should have identical stats or else skill is meangingless...END SARCASM

That will be all.

PS. Neither the valk nor the prom are overpowered, they're both military ships and are just fine as is, and have been for years.

I don't see the problem with the general spirit of the idea: lowering the stats of certain variants, but leaving what they happen to be best at unaltered. It helps to make the Valk a little more specialized and less well-rounded, promoting variant choice depending on what, exactly, a pilot intends to do with the craft.

However, I do think that your suggested numbers might need a little refinement.