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Please don't comment unless you read the reasons, I spent well over an hour writing them... I only added the summary for the Dev's sake. Keep in mind all of the implementation details are subject to change with commenter feedback.
Terms: f2p = free to play (saves both of us typing!)
Executive Summary:
-1/1/1/1/1 max
-able to go anywhere, make guilds, join guilds, do anything that is available with those licenses
-NOT able to fly/use ships/equipment without those reqs (corvus at corvus station etc), to discourage people from stocking up and then going f2p when they have enough ships.
Proposed "Microtransactions": (Hijacked from DE's comment in Lite thread... sorry DE!):
$1.99/mo 4/4/1/1/1 Basic Combat Package
$1.99/mo 1/1/1/8/2 Basic Trade Package
$1.99/mo 1/1/U/3/U Heavy Equipment Package
$1.99/mo U/U/1/1/1 Advanced Combat Package : Requires Basic Combat Package
$1.99/mo 4/1/3/U/2 Advanced Trade Package: Requires Basic Trade Package
$1.00/mo 3/3/3/3/3 "Lite" Package
Please note here "microtransactions" means "things f2p players can pay for to get similar content to subscribers, but never more than subs" and also note that these could add up to more than $10/mo if the f2p player is stupid or just wants to support the game more.
Reasons:
-Not enough players
VO has a dearth of players, and has for a while now. We need more players to fill the universe, and while the kickstarter is helping a bit, it is only a temporary solution that hasn't boosted populations to the point that this game needs (see "but theres nothing to do at 1/1/1/1/1").
How would adding f2p help this, you may ask? Well, this time we will take the snowball effect and apply it as it is. A huge numbers of players will come in because of f2p announced. These players will see the other players, interact with them, have fun, etc. because player interaction is the basis of an MMO. The f2p players will then stick around because of the number of people to interact with, maybe join a guild, and get stuck into vo for 1-5 years, maybe even for life.
-Has worked before and nearly every major MMO has adopted it
Even the great WoW, known for their stubbornness when it comes to sticking to the p2p model, has recently entered the f2p fold, and added a f2p option. Can you think of a single MMO off the top of your head that doesn't include some sort of f2p playing, mediocre or not? I certainly couldn't, and I've seen at least 30+ MMOs. If its something that every great MMO is using, doesn't it make sense that it probably is a factor in their expansion?
-But wouldn't this decrease the current subscriber amount, as some people would go f2p?
No. Not even in the short term. Instead of me trying to explain this to you myself, which I will do shortly, I will provide you with a link that does it for me: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free-to-play#P2P_to_F2P_conversions . This link reports 2 companies which did a similar conversion to f2p, and both reported massive profits and increase in player count. Although some cases have reported a decrease in player count (D&D unlimited), they still profited and are by in large the minority. The entire article provides a good read on the subject if you are interested in a more in depth discussion of the subject.
Also, think about it; a player nowadays needs their moth. They need their valk/corvult/proms. They need their mining rags. Most couldn't imagine playing vo without these crucial factors, and the ones that could are new and unlikely to be long terms subscribers (unless the player base becomes bigger!)
As I mentioned before, adding f2p would definitely cause a nearly instant massive increase in the number of players due to the publicity and new players, and then would slowly *increase* over time because less players will leave the game due to the added vigor and innovation the new players bring and players will be more likely to recommend the game to their friends, etc.
Another way to look at it is to think about what happens now when a person doesn't have enough money or in some other way is prevented from becoming a subscriber. This is the overwhelming majority that doesn't know about friend keys and such to stay longer than 8 hours. They play for 8 hours, never talk on 100 or even glance at it. They may be in sector with a few other players occasionally, but they never interact with the players. They just pass each other, sometimes without either knowing the other exists because they either skipped the part in the tutorial, forgot that part in the tutorial, or are too lazy to press u.
The said noob will then go on to spend maybe the whole 8 hours, maybe just 1 or 2 hours, trading or botting or mining or whatever in silence and never meet the community or find out anything close to what VO is about. They probably will get maybe 1 license over the stats you get from the flight test, if that, because the missions to get your licenses up are obscured by a bunch of other missions like collect orun processors and crap. 2 weeks later, the noob has completely forgotten about the game, and if he gets cash later he will spend it elsewhere.
Now for what would happen if f2p is implemented. Initially, a huge spike in new players, sectors are so crowded they are nearly forced to talk/interact even if they dont get blown up by new f2p "pups" or f2p pirates. Noob keeps playing for years; finally, said noob manages to get hands on some extra cash. Noob wants to play with the "big boys" and splashes the cash to subscribe to vo. Noobs friends get peer pressured into becoming subscribers as well, seeing how much more fun said noob is having being a subscriber versus plain ol' f2p.
As you can see, the second case will cause a huge rise in not only the number of players, but the number of subscribers.
-Its already possible, with a little time, to play vo for free
Now heres the clincher: most of you may already know this, but you can play vo for free! Simply make a few trial accounts (30 seconds per account using yahoo email), get someone to give you a friend key (easy to pretend your new if your evil, I pay for mine), and voila an account for free for 2 weeks. From there, it takes about 30 minutes to get 2/2/1/-/-, which is enough for a vult mk i with dual neuts. With that setup, you're pretty much able to beat anyone who isn't near to you in their skill at combat. I find around 95%+ of the time, if I loose in the vult dual neut, I will loose in the corvult dual lenb as well. The ratio of 30 minutes to 2 weeks is so minuscule its not even comparable how much gameplay you get versus work you have to put in.
As for trading its a bit tougher; however heres the rub. If you can pinch a few HE/HDs, ultras off ninjr, do the first courier mission for 1 minute = trading 1,do the mining tutorial for about 30 seconds = mining 1, pop the HE/HD on a rev, mine for 2 minutes to get mining 2, then go to corvus, buy an atlas and equip with ultra, get trading 5 in about 3 hours... thats about 3.5 hours to get a moth (in case you didn't know for a moth at corvus its -/-/-/5/2). That means about 3.5 hours of grinding every 2 weeks to get what you need.
But other MMOs make you grind for much longer (sometimes up to 120-144 hours online) than this every 2 weeks to maintain a decent status/level/whatever! So compared to that, MMO-goers can view this as a piece of cake. So, anyone who wants to play your game can, but you just make it hard for them; but this is just hurting yourselves (speaking to the devs here). If you made an f2p option available, those people who just gave up and played some other game would stick around.
-f2p would be too boring with only 1/1/1/1/1!
Like I said, its the community that makes a game; as long as the gameplay is decent (and vo's is much more than that!), the community will be what makes the game attractive to new players. Imagine this: groups of noobs in dual HX, 1 megaposi revs hunting queens. Maybe even the levi! New noob guilds hunting down other noobs in lowly centurions with plasma cannons equipped. Swarms of noobs all over the CtC cargo the instant the bot comes out, causing a furball of epic proportions chronically. Every WH in grey with at least 50+ noobs, trading, pirating, mining, fighting, making friends, making enemies, etc. That is what the game could be in only a couple of weeks or less after f2p VO is implemented.
-f2p's notorious age group
Recently added due to player feedback. Please refer to "Counter arguments" for explanation. Although I will admit the f2p crowd can be rowdier than the sub crowd, I'd much rather have them here than empty space. When I'm traveling in grey in a moth, I want there to be some semblance of danger rather than the occasional famy member I can just buy off. If there are swarms of murdering f2p players, I'd definitely have to be more on my toes, regardless of the amount of cash I have to spare.
Also, if you don't like their chatting on 100, 1, and 11, you can turn to other means of communication that are more specialized. For example, the devs could implement a sub's only channel or we could simply organize one ourselves; also, you could talk amongst guildies or people in your group, or simply designate a channel amongst cross-guild friends to talk on, as there are plenty free out there.
One more thing; people in this age range are actually on all the time, albeit for only 8 hours a piece. I'd be willing to bet at least 3/5 people typically in the training station are in that age range. But do they spam 100 with useless banter? No. Generally, the only time I see a noob talking on 100 is to ask a question, or by accident (the classic "t").
-This will take at least 6 months to develop, so its not worth the devs time
On the contrary, I would argue it is well worth 6 months of no updates whatsoever. The lack in player population is what I attribute the majority of players reason for quitting, from monitoring 100 and having friends tell me so. Because it is so empty and you have to seek out other players to have player-player interaction, the game as a whole suffers. This game has great content, but not many people delve deep enough to see it!
On a side note, other notorious reasons for players quitting (in my opinion) are:
A. Not knowing where and how a hostile attacked them (could be solved with auto inclusion of targetless and TCS)
B. Tutorial. 'Nuff said. Threads about that are located elsewhere.
C. All interesting combat is PvP. The only PvE content is skirms, queens, and levis, and those aren't very fun when repeated many many times, not to mention the rewards offered are less then subpar, especially for skirms and levis. However, of the 4 this would take the longest to change I think.
Counter arguments:
-f2p's notorious age group
Since the f2p population is generally in the 10-18 category (not saying subs cant be 10-18), most of the current, more mature, subs may not enjoy their company. There has been references to a huge amount of trolling, spamming, and spewing of hate that this age group tends to specialize in.
-Let's see how the $1 android thingy works out first
Fair enough. Well played, inc.
-This will take at least 6 months to develop, so its not worth the devs time
Another good point. Added this to the reasons list.
Restrictions:
-1/1/1/1/1 or 2/2/2/2/2?
As I mentioned earlier, 2/2/2/2/2 would allow you to easily access a vulture build which is virtually equivalent (minus rockets) to any of the best builds in the game. Too OP? Thats for you to decide (devs and other players). I'm currently up in the air about this. 1/1/1/1/1 would make it many times harder, if not impossible in some cases, to beat any decent p2p player. Also note the rarity of hive posis makes them pretty much impossible to use for anyone with less than nahin-status combat skills; and if your that epic, you kinda deserve to pwn people no matter if your f2p or subscribed.
EDIT: This has been changed to 1/1/1/1/1 since it was recently brought to my attention IBG and SVG can be bought at 2/2/2/2/2.
-OMGZORS! They shouldn't be able to go anywhere but one sector!
That completely defeats the purpose of the entire post. Every wh sector, station sector, etc should have at least 5 people in it, and that can't happen unless we get a f2p player base which is allowed to go anywhere.
Obviously, since I currently don't pay for VO, I am a bit biased on this, so I encourage player and dev feedback, but once again please read the reasons before you diss the OP.
Terms: f2p = free to play (saves both of us typing!)
Executive Summary:
-1/1/1/1/1 max
-able to go anywhere, make guilds, join guilds, do anything that is available with those licenses
-NOT able to fly/use ships/equipment without those reqs (corvus at corvus station etc), to discourage people from stocking up and then going f2p when they have enough ships.
Proposed "Microtransactions": (Hijacked from DE's comment in Lite thread... sorry DE!):
$1.99/mo 4/4/1/1/1 Basic Combat Package
$1.99/mo 1/1/1/8/2 Basic Trade Package
$1.99/mo 1/1/U/3/U Heavy Equipment Package
$1.99/mo U/U/1/1/1 Advanced Combat Package : Requires Basic Combat Package
$1.99/mo 4/1/3/U/2 Advanced Trade Package: Requires Basic Trade Package
$1.00/mo 3/3/3/3/3 "Lite" Package
Please note here "microtransactions" means "things f2p players can pay for to get similar content to subscribers, but never more than subs" and also note that these could add up to more than $10/mo if the f2p player is stupid or just wants to support the game more.
Reasons:
-Not enough players
VO has a dearth of players, and has for a while now. We need more players to fill the universe, and while the kickstarter is helping a bit, it is only a temporary solution that hasn't boosted populations to the point that this game needs (see "but theres nothing to do at 1/1/1/1/1").
How would adding f2p help this, you may ask? Well, this time we will take the snowball effect and apply it as it is. A huge numbers of players will come in because of f2p announced. These players will see the other players, interact with them, have fun, etc. because player interaction is the basis of an MMO. The f2p players will then stick around because of the number of people to interact with, maybe join a guild, and get stuck into vo for 1-5 years, maybe even for life.
-Has worked before and nearly every major MMO has adopted it
Even the great WoW, known for their stubbornness when it comes to sticking to the p2p model, has recently entered the f2p fold, and added a f2p option. Can you think of a single MMO off the top of your head that doesn't include some sort of f2p playing, mediocre or not? I certainly couldn't, and I've seen at least 30+ MMOs. If its something that every great MMO is using, doesn't it make sense that it probably is a factor in their expansion?
-But wouldn't this decrease the current subscriber amount, as some people would go f2p?
No. Not even in the short term. Instead of me trying to explain this to you myself, which I will do shortly, I will provide you with a link that does it for me: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free-to-play#P2P_to_F2P_conversions . This link reports 2 companies which did a similar conversion to f2p, and both reported massive profits and increase in player count. Although some cases have reported a decrease in player count (D&D unlimited), they still profited and are by in large the minority. The entire article provides a good read on the subject if you are interested in a more in depth discussion of the subject.
Also, think about it; a player nowadays needs their moth. They need their valk/corvult/proms. They need their mining rags. Most couldn't imagine playing vo without these crucial factors, and the ones that could are new and unlikely to be long terms subscribers (unless the player base becomes bigger!)
As I mentioned before, adding f2p would definitely cause a nearly instant massive increase in the number of players due to the publicity and new players, and then would slowly *increase* over time because less players will leave the game due to the added vigor and innovation the new players bring and players will be more likely to recommend the game to their friends, etc.
Another way to look at it is to think about what happens now when a person doesn't have enough money or in some other way is prevented from becoming a subscriber. This is the overwhelming majority that doesn't know about friend keys and such to stay longer than 8 hours. They play for 8 hours, never talk on 100 or even glance at it. They may be in sector with a few other players occasionally, but they never interact with the players. They just pass each other, sometimes without either knowing the other exists because they either skipped the part in the tutorial, forgot that part in the tutorial, or are too lazy to press u.
The said noob will then go on to spend maybe the whole 8 hours, maybe just 1 or 2 hours, trading or botting or mining or whatever in silence and never meet the community or find out anything close to what VO is about. They probably will get maybe 1 license over the stats you get from the flight test, if that, because the missions to get your licenses up are obscured by a bunch of other missions like collect orun processors and crap. 2 weeks later, the noob has completely forgotten about the game, and if he gets cash later he will spend it elsewhere.
Now for what would happen if f2p is implemented. Initially, a huge spike in new players, sectors are so crowded they are nearly forced to talk/interact even if they dont get blown up by new f2p "pups" or f2p pirates. Noob keeps playing for years; finally, said noob manages to get hands on some extra cash. Noob wants to play with the "big boys" and splashes the cash to subscribe to vo. Noobs friends get peer pressured into becoming subscribers as well, seeing how much more fun said noob is having being a subscriber versus plain ol' f2p.
As you can see, the second case will cause a huge rise in not only the number of players, but the number of subscribers.
-Its already possible, with a little time, to play vo for free
Now heres the clincher: most of you may already know this, but you can play vo for free! Simply make a few trial accounts (30 seconds per account using yahoo email), get someone to give you a friend key (easy to pretend your new if your evil, I pay for mine), and voila an account for free for 2 weeks. From there, it takes about 30 minutes to get 2/2/1/-/-, which is enough for a vult mk i with dual neuts. With that setup, you're pretty much able to beat anyone who isn't near to you in their skill at combat. I find around 95%+ of the time, if I loose in the vult dual neut, I will loose in the corvult dual lenb as well. The ratio of 30 minutes to 2 weeks is so minuscule its not even comparable how much gameplay you get versus work you have to put in.
As for trading its a bit tougher; however heres the rub. If you can pinch a few HE/HDs, ultras off ninjr, do the first courier mission for 1 minute = trading 1,do the mining tutorial for about 30 seconds = mining 1, pop the HE/HD on a rev, mine for 2 minutes to get mining 2, then go to corvus, buy an atlas and equip with ultra, get trading 5 in about 3 hours... thats about 3.5 hours to get a moth (in case you didn't know for a moth at corvus its -/-/-/5/2). That means about 3.5 hours of grinding every 2 weeks to get what you need.
But other MMOs make you grind for much longer (sometimes up to 120-144 hours online) than this every 2 weeks to maintain a decent status/level/whatever! So compared to that, MMO-goers can view this as a piece of cake. So, anyone who wants to play your game can, but you just make it hard for them; but this is just hurting yourselves (speaking to the devs here). If you made an f2p option available, those people who just gave up and played some other game would stick around.
-f2p would be too boring with only 1/1/1/1/1!
Like I said, its the community that makes a game; as long as the gameplay is decent (and vo's is much more than that!), the community will be what makes the game attractive to new players. Imagine this: groups of noobs in dual HX, 1 megaposi revs hunting queens. Maybe even the levi! New noob guilds hunting down other noobs in lowly centurions with plasma cannons equipped. Swarms of noobs all over the CtC cargo the instant the bot comes out, causing a furball of epic proportions chronically. Every WH in grey with at least 50+ noobs, trading, pirating, mining, fighting, making friends, making enemies, etc. That is what the game could be in only a couple of weeks or less after f2p VO is implemented.
-f2p's notorious age group
Recently added due to player feedback. Please refer to "Counter arguments" for explanation. Although I will admit the f2p crowd can be rowdier than the sub crowd, I'd much rather have them here than empty space. When I'm traveling in grey in a moth, I want there to be some semblance of danger rather than the occasional famy member I can just buy off. If there are swarms of murdering f2p players, I'd definitely have to be more on my toes, regardless of the amount of cash I have to spare.
Also, if you don't like their chatting on 100, 1, and 11, you can turn to other means of communication that are more specialized. For example, the devs could implement a sub's only channel or we could simply organize one ourselves; also, you could talk amongst guildies or people in your group, or simply designate a channel amongst cross-guild friends to talk on, as there are plenty free out there.
One more thing; people in this age range are actually on all the time, albeit for only 8 hours a piece. I'd be willing to bet at least 3/5 people typically in the training station are in that age range. But do they spam 100 with useless banter? No. Generally, the only time I see a noob talking on 100 is to ask a question, or by accident (the classic "t").
-This will take at least 6 months to develop, so its not worth the devs time
On the contrary, I would argue it is well worth 6 months of no updates whatsoever. The lack in player population is what I attribute the majority of players reason for quitting, from monitoring 100 and having friends tell me so. Because it is so empty and you have to seek out other players to have player-player interaction, the game as a whole suffers. This game has great content, but not many people delve deep enough to see it!
On a side note, other notorious reasons for players quitting (in my opinion) are:
A. Not knowing where and how a hostile attacked them (could be solved with auto inclusion of targetless and TCS)
B. Tutorial. 'Nuff said. Threads about that are located elsewhere.
C. All interesting combat is PvP. The only PvE content is skirms, queens, and levis, and those aren't very fun when repeated many many times, not to mention the rewards offered are less then subpar, especially for skirms and levis. However, of the 4 this would take the longest to change I think.
Counter arguments:
-f2p's notorious age group
Since the f2p population is generally in the 10-18 category (not saying subs cant be 10-18), most of the current, more mature, subs may not enjoy their company. There has been references to a huge amount of trolling, spamming, and spewing of hate that this age group tends to specialize in.
-Let's see how the $1 android thingy works out first
Fair enough. Well played, inc.
-This will take at least 6 months to develop, so its not worth the devs time
Another good point. Added this to the reasons list.
Restrictions:
-1/1/1/1/1 or 2/2/2/2/2?
As I mentioned earlier, 2/2/2/2/2 would allow you to easily access a vulture build which is virtually equivalent (minus rockets) to any of the best builds in the game. Too OP? Thats for you to decide (devs and other players). I'm currently up in the air about this. 1/1/1/1/1 would make it many times harder, if not impossible in some cases, to beat any decent p2p player. Also note the rarity of hive posis makes them pretty much impossible to use for anyone with less than nahin-status combat skills; and if your that epic, you kinda deserve to pwn people no matter if your f2p or subscribed.
EDIT: This has been changed to 1/1/1/1/1 since it was recently brought to my attention IBG and SVG can be bought at 2/2/2/2/2.
-OMGZORS! They shouldn't be able to go anywhere but one sector!
That completely defeats the purpose of the entire post. Every wh sector, station sector, etc should have at least 5 people in it, and that can't happen unless we get a f2p player base which is allowed to go anywhere.
Obviously, since I currently don't pay for VO, I am a bit biased on this, so I encourage player and dev feedback, but once again please read the reasons before you diss the OP.
-1
The"lite" sub just started for android players.
Think F2P is a very bad idea, period
If they can not afford $10/month then they should be looking for a better job.
To me the $10/month is a commitment, F2P isn't
I am very sure most will not agree with me, but so be it.
The"lite" sub just started for android players.
Think F2P is a very bad idea, period
If they can not afford $10/month then they should be looking for a better job.
To me the $10/month is a commitment, F2P isn't
I am very sure most will not agree with me, but so be it.
@ Sleepy:
Your completely ignoring the fact that a lot of players cannot do any transactions, $1 or $10. And also the commitment would now be $1/month, not $10 a month; the price of a candy bar. Are you really willing to sacrifice how great a game this could be with a big player base for $1/mo from maybe 50 people in the devs pockets? When the game becomes bigger from f2p, they would get a hell of a lot more than that in real subs. Also, out of curiosity, I'm wondering if your read all the reasons? No point in having an argument if one side doesn't listen.
Your completely ignoring the fact that a lot of players cannot do any transactions, $1 or $10. And also the commitment would now be $1/month, not $10 a month; the price of a candy bar. Are you really willing to sacrifice how great a game this could be with a big player base for $1/mo from maybe 50 people in the devs pockets? When the game becomes bigger from f2p, they would get a hell of a lot more than that in real subs. Also, out of curiosity, I'm wondering if your read all the reasons? No point in having an argument if one side doesn't listen.
"Please don't comment unless you read the reasons"
Take. Your. Own. Advice.
Please don't make a 'Make VO F2P' post until you have read all the other 'Make VO F2P' posts all of these questions and more have been discussed to death and it's simply not going to happen right now.
Adios.
Take. Your. Own. Advice.
Please don't make a 'Make VO F2P' post until you have read all the other 'Make VO F2P' posts all of these questions and more have been discussed to death and it's simply not going to happen right now.
Adios.
@TRS:
I've talked to the devs directly about it several times, and they've explained their reasons to me; I see no reason to include past conversations into this. I've addressed all the said reasons in the "Reasons" part of the post. I'd appreciate it if you actually read it instead of just shrugging it off, as it took me years of experience in vo to come up with these arguments, and over an hour just to write them down coherently. Like I said before about the one sided argument....
I didn't include any of the previous threads because:
A. Things have changed.
B. All of the arguments against it have either been addressed by me above, or by the devs themselves when they implemented the $1 thing.
Whereas my post is time relevant and presents a valid argument for every single counterargument I could think of. If you don't like it, give me your counterargument instead of whining.
In short, if you don't have anything to contribute but hate on the OP, beat it.
I've talked to the devs directly about it several times, and they've explained their reasons to me; I see no reason to include past conversations into this. I've addressed all the said reasons in the "Reasons" part of the post. I'd appreciate it if you actually read it instead of just shrugging it off, as it took me years of experience in vo to come up with these arguments, and over an hour just to write them down coherently. Like I said before about the one sided argument....
I didn't include any of the previous threads because:
A. Things have changed.
B. All of the arguments against it have either been addressed by me above, or by the devs themselves when they implemented the $1 thing.
Whereas my post is time relevant and presents a valid argument for every single counterargument I could think of. If you don't like it, give me your counterargument instead of whining.
In short, if you don't have anything to contribute but hate on the OP, beat it.
Seriously, we just get Lite and you ask for more.
Wait until Lite is on PCs, then cough up a buck, Crusader. F2P is not going to happen.
Arguing that we're "hating" on your idea isn't a valid argument. Our points have been made in other threads and you refuse to let it die.
There is no dearth of players. VO is more active than it has ever been, literally, and things are moving forward now with the KS.
IBGs, WTDs, SVGs, and Corvults are all available with 2 licenses.
Allowing F2P players to make guilds just invites massive alt spam.
Most of your claims are fallacious and pure hopeful speculation with no backup. Prove that implementing F2P would massively spike playerbase instantly. Prove that it would not just drive away new players because all the kids that troll for F2P games would home in on VO, like they always do. I don't play MMOs except VO because VO is not F2P and does not permit that kind of personality.
Why would a noob play VO for years on 1/1/1/1/1?
You wasted an hour on pointless tripe.
Wait until Lite is on PCs, then cough up a buck, Crusader. F2P is not going to happen.
Arguing that we're "hating" on your idea isn't a valid argument. Our points have been made in other threads and you refuse to let it die.
There is no dearth of players. VO is more active than it has ever been, literally, and things are moving forward now with the KS.
IBGs, WTDs, SVGs, and Corvults are all available with 2 licenses.
Allowing F2P players to make guilds just invites massive alt spam.
Most of your claims are fallacious and pure hopeful speculation with no backup. Prove that implementing F2P would massively spike playerbase instantly. Prove that it would not just drive away new players because all the kids that troll for F2P games would home in on VO, like they always do. I don't play MMOs except VO because VO is not F2P and does not permit that kind of personality.
Why would a noob play VO for years on 1/1/1/1/1?
You wasted an hour on pointless tripe.
tl;dr
Is "lite" already available?
Is "lite" already available?
I will preface my post by saying two things:
1) I am one of the largest advocates of a sensible implementation of the micro-transaction supported business model you will find in the VO community, and I have a very specific idea of how it should be done
2) I believe it is an inevitable evolutionary step for Vendetta if it builds up to a certain point it will need to adopt micro-transaction supported revenue as the business case will become overwhelmingly strong, but there are prerequisites.
However, that being said, you have failed to address the central question which is when does the investment in the development overhead in converting the existing game into a proper F2P supported model start paying off in terms of increased profit. Because there isn't really an answer to that question in your post, and yes I did read it before I made my post and I stand by what I said, you haven't properly familiarized yourself with the subject matter.
There is quite a bit of involved work in proper F2P conversion, and whether or not it will work is basically pure speculation. There is far too much unfinishedness about the current version that I don't think it has any merit to discuss it at this point. What needs to happen is the devs need to raise the capital from the kickstarter, they need to pump out 1.9 and then start thinking about this when 2.0 knocks around. And I think they will.
You know, if you plan to make a serious commitment to the game, 200 dollars for two years or whatever the usual sub price is for that time is virtually nothing. I'm set for the next almost two years assuming KS comes through. Call it an antiquated business model all you like but the subscription model is much more egalitarian than F2P supported ones it's just the way it is.
1) I am one of the largest advocates of a sensible implementation of the micro-transaction supported business model you will find in the VO community, and I have a very specific idea of how it should be done
2) I believe it is an inevitable evolutionary step for Vendetta if it builds up to a certain point it will need to adopt micro-transaction supported revenue as the business case will become overwhelmingly strong, but there are prerequisites.
However, that being said, you have failed to address the central question which is when does the investment in the development overhead in converting the existing game into a proper F2P supported model start paying off in terms of increased profit. Because there isn't really an answer to that question in your post, and yes I did read it before I made my post and I stand by what I said, you haven't properly familiarized yourself with the subject matter.
There is quite a bit of involved work in proper F2P conversion, and whether or not it will work is basically pure speculation. There is far too much unfinishedness about the current version that I don't think it has any merit to discuss it at this point. What needs to happen is the devs need to raise the capital from the kickstarter, they need to pump out 1.9 and then start thinking about this when 2.0 knocks around. And I think they will.
You know, if you plan to make a serious commitment to the game, 200 dollars for two years or whatever the usual sub price is for that time is virtually nothing. I'm set for the next almost two years assuming KS comes through. Call it an antiquated business model all you like but the subscription model is much more egalitarian than F2P supported ones it's just the way it is.
@nahin, obviously you didn't read the reason entitled "f2p would be too boring with only 2/2/2/2/2 or 1/1/1/1/1!" There is plenty to do with 1/1/1/1/1 and you are only limiting it by your lack of imagination.
Also, can I take that as your vote for 1/1/1/1/1 instead of 2/2/2/2/2? I forgot about the SVG/IBG bit, so I admit 1/1/1/1/1 is sounding a lot more attractive.
@TRS fair enough, sorry I got so vehement. Niether of us will change our minds because we are too stuck into our opinions :)
Also, can I take that as your vote for 1/1/1/1/1 instead of 2/2/2/2/2? I forgot about the SVG/IBG bit, so I admit 1/1/1/1/1 is sounding a lot more attractive.
@TRS fair enough, sorry I got so vehement. Niether of us will change our minds because we are too stuck into our opinions :)
@everyf2pthreadever
You have been crushed
You have been crushed
@ Crazyspence:
Correction: every previous f2p thread made before this Lite update which changes everything and didn't address every single argument against f2p. If you can think of another one, I'll not only give you a cookie but I'll make a counterargument for that as well. How about you read my reasons, then comment on what makes you think they are wrong instead of just assuming that you know everything about the situation? Lots of things have changed since the concept of f2p has come up, including a very similar "lite" subscription model the devs have pushed.
I'm growing tired of this, if no one is going to actually try to provide a counterargument against me, I'll be forced to assume my logic is completely and totally correct, and you guys are just trolling the OP because of some unknown hatred for the game as a whole.
Correction: every previous f2p thread made before this Lite update which changes everything and didn't address every single argument against f2p. If you can think of another one, I'll not only give you a cookie but I'll make a counterargument for that as well. How about you read my reasons, then comment on what makes you think they are wrong instead of just assuming that you know everything about the situation? Lots of things have changed since the concept of f2p has come up, including a very similar "lite" subscription model the devs have pushed.
I'm growing tired of this, if no one is going to actually try to provide a counterargument against me, I'll be forced to assume my logic is completely and totally correct, and you guys are just trolling the OP because of some unknown hatred for the game as a whole.
Doesn't matter if you are growing tired of it, the whole thread is you arguing with people, which in the history of suggestions threads == immediate defeat
</crushed>
</crushed>
Crusader, you can take my vote to put a boot up your rear. I read your post and it's bull. Nobody is going to play for years with the most basic guns.
People who don't want to contribute to what the thread is about, or at least give me a reason why they think f2p won't work please do not bother to comment on this thread as I will no longer respond to your trolling comments. As CS pointed out, this is going nowhere unless someone can actually give a contributive comment for once instead of trolling. Here's a hint: instead of just saying "The OP is shit" or some such sentiment, say "The OP is shit because...". At least nahin gave some reasons even if he didn't read my entire post...
Of course I'm going to argue with everyone if the only comments I get is something akin to "the OP is shit" with no explanation as to why you think so! Your first comment, CS, is a perfect example of that.
Of course I'm going to argue with everyone if the only comments I get is something akin to "the OP is shit" with no explanation as to why you think so! Your first comment, CS, is a perfect example of that.
@nahin:
really? You ignore lenbs and hive posis, which while they will go up in price significantly, will still be available at 1/1/1/1/1. I've played plenty of times at 1/1/-/-/- and had plenty of fun.
But even if they have only shit guns, other f2p players will only have shit guns, and they will be the majority of the population. Maybe thats why your so scared, having a new large community? Is that your counterargument, fear of a bit of change to an innovative subscription model that every other god damn mmo uses? How very antiquated.
really? You ignore lenbs and hive posis, which while they will go up in price significantly, will still be available at 1/1/1/1/1. I've played plenty of times at 1/1/-/-/- and had plenty of fun.
But even if they have only shit guns, other f2p players will only have shit guns, and they will be the majority of the population. Maybe thats why your so scared, having a new large community? Is that your counterargument, fear of a bit of change to an innovative subscription model that every other god damn mmo uses? How very antiquated.
I'd be interested to hear what you (OP) are basing this "snowball effect in reverse" theory on; you have a strongly worded argument, which requires strong evidence, of which you have presented none.
Hah. You just want a free game. Screw you, "antiquated" and "scared." Instead of insulting everyone that disagrees with you (everyone), why not read what we've already said dozens of times? I and so many others have already written F2P to death.
@Phaserlight
Finally someone who actually read the OP and isn't a troll. You have no idea how long I've waited, lol.
I've based that theory off of the visible decrease in players over the past 5-6 years. There have been bumps and falls in the player count, but over all you cannot deny there has been a massive decrease over that period of time. For example, I went to a NW recently; the only two teams with more than 1 person were grey and itani. And the max there was I believe 4. Compare that to the NWs of old; at least 10 people a team! That's a huge decrease in the active population. The explanation I give is simply my thinking as to how this decrease is occuring: less people just leads to more people quiting and it feeds itself. If you have any other reasons as to why this could be happening, I'll be glad to add them in there.
Finally someone who actually read the OP and isn't a troll. You have no idea how long I've waited, lol.
I've based that theory off of the visible decrease in players over the past 5-6 years. There have been bumps and falls in the player count, but over all you cannot deny there has been a massive decrease over that period of time. For example, I went to a NW recently; the only two teams with more than 1 person were grey and itani. And the max there was I believe 4. Compare that to the NWs of old; at least 10 people a team! That's a huge decrease in the active population. The explanation I give is simply my thinking as to how this decrease is occuring: less people just leads to more people quiting and it feeds itself. If you have any other reasons as to why this could be happening, I'll be glad to add them in there.
(EDITED)
@nahin:
Just because you've discussed it to death before doesn't mean you should dismiss someone else's take on it by default and not even read the OP. As helpful as you've been I'd appreciate it if you read the post before trying to argue against it.
@nahin:
Just because you've discussed it to death before doesn't mean you should dismiss someone else's take on it by default and not even read the OP. As helpful as you've been I'd appreciate it if you read the post before trying to argue against it.
There is no visible decrease in players, you moron. There is _more_ activity. NW is dead because of the ridiculous politics surrounding it; in case you forgot, we had a furball with over twenty people participating Thursday night.
Read the dozen threads on F2P again.
I told you I read the OP you annoying pecker. Good lord you're either thick or a troll.
Read the dozen threads on F2P again.
I told you I read the OP you annoying pecker. Good lord you're either thick or a troll.