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Station Def Bots..
Sorry for my poor grammar skills but....
Are they going to get toned down any time soon??
Just because some friends of mine wanted to go invade a hostile space so we could shoot people. However, one problem is, he was in a vulture MK IV, when approaching the wormhole towards hostile space, he was downed in seconds by the def bots..
I mean if they were toned down, we could have some little fun here.
Of its not possible for this to happen, then explain some alternatives here. Some of my buddies are from planetside and they perfer to shoot other people instead of bots from a hostile nation.
Just right now they are not satisfied with the game.
And another suggestion, where there be any other ways to gain combat or trading commision points without doing boring runs and botting??
Are they going to get toned down any time soon??
Just because some friends of mine wanted to go invade a hostile space so we could shoot people. However, one problem is, he was in a vulture MK IV, when approaching the wormhole towards hostile space, he was downed in seconds by the def bots..
I mean if they were toned down, we could have some little fun here.
Of its not possible for this to happen, then explain some alternatives here. Some of my buddies are from planetside and they perfer to shoot other people instead of bots from a hostile nation.
Just right now they are not satisfied with the game.
And another suggestion, where there be any other ways to gain combat or trading commision points without doing boring runs and botting??
I have to agree. Right now PvP is essentially impossible. Vendetta is right now more or less a player-vs-bot game. 98% of the space is either guarded by defbots or totally empty. Waiting for people in storms just doesn't work (devs, try it). We need A LOT LESS defbots, especially in the outer sectors. Flying around at the serco border is right now as safe as Itan. That doesn't make any sense. On a positive note, the new defbots are already a lot better than the last ones. The suicide bots are cool, and the bots are a lot less uber. Still, its very difficult to kill them and they respawn immediatly.
Bots are ok.. but there needs to be a little less of them, plus they also need to be toned down to these ships loadout:
Vulture MK II
Plasma Cannon HX
Medium Battery
Vulture MK II
Plasma Cannon HX
Medium Battery
The bots can't be toned down very much and still offer any form of protection to newbs against vets.
I am sure I'm not the only player who could currently take out plenty of newbs without getting killed by the defense bots. If they were made so laughably pathetic as what you're suggesting Tilt any high level character could dance into newb territory and keep anyone from starting playing Vendetta.
Though I don't think bots (who don't have the combat AI of top FPS games like UT2k4) will ever provide a good protection for newbs it's certainly the best we have at the moment since the best fighting player ship is also the best ship at running away and it is currently so easy to run. If it weren't easy to run then newbs would have the protection of other players who could chase and defeat their assailant.
I am sure I'm not the only player who could currently take out plenty of newbs without getting killed by the defense bots. If they were made so laughably pathetic as what you're suggesting Tilt any high level character could dance into newb territory and keep anyone from starting playing Vendetta.
Though I don't think bots (who don't have the combat AI of top FPS games like UT2k4) will ever provide a good protection for newbs it's certainly the best we have at the moment since the best fighting player ship is also the best ship at running away and it is currently so easy to run. If it weren't easy to run then newbs would have the protection of other players who could chase and defeat their assailant.
Eldrad, saying you're able to do something and therefore it's ok is like saying just because Shaq can dunk the the average comp nerd shouldn't complain about the height of the net.
You currently can't kill pilots from enemy nations unless you make a miraculous catch in the gray sectors. How long before people figure that one out and simply avoid the majority of gray space? It needs to be at least POSSIBLE to fly into an enemy nations territory, do some damage and then make it back out. In the other thread I proposed that the newb sectors - IE the most central ones - be protected by the current defbots and kamikazes. As you go out further they get weaker, so that incursions are possible without overwhelming death.
You currently can't kill pilots from enemy nations unless you make a miraculous catch in the gray sectors. How long before people figure that one out and simply avoid the majority of gray space? It needs to be at least POSSIBLE to fly into an enemy nations territory, do some damage and then make it back out. In the other thread I proposed that the newb sectors - IE the most central ones - be protected by the current defbots and kamikazes. As you go out further they get weaker, so that incursions are possible without overwhelming death.
Lets say what we have now, virtually eleminates the possibilities of PvP.
If we were to tone down the bots or get rid of them, then there will be vets going down to other nation space greifing newbies out of the game.
If someone wanted a large player fleet of vultures ships to invade another space, how are they going to proclaim that they are invading another nation space?? You can't goto a station and camp there, or how about back stabbing other people in the back while they are botting? Which is kind of rude.
Is there anything that players can fight over?? Besides killing other people in a rude way?
In planetside, there was a way to claim contents like hack the conroles one way or another, there would be other players from the opposite team trying to kill your group and retake over the consoles.
Should we brainstorm?
If we were to tone down the bots or get rid of them, then there will be vets going down to other nation space greifing newbies out of the game.
If someone wanted a large player fleet of vultures ships to invade another space, how are they going to proclaim that they are invading another nation space?? You can't goto a station and camp there, or how about back stabbing other people in the back while they are botting? Which is kind of rude.
Is there anything that players can fight over?? Besides killing other people in a rude way?
In planetside, there was a way to claim contents like hack the conroles one way or another, there would be other players from the opposite team trying to kill your group and retake over the consoles.
Should we brainstorm?
Starfisher, the devs don't want anyone (myself included) to be killing newbs who just signed up for the game repeatedly.
If you find anybody without a FC bat in territory where they're unprotected and you can get within 1km of them it's pretty easy to follow them wherever (and if you're a better fighter than them kill them). The problem is that high lvl characters (with FCs and hvy engines) can't be caught.
As for killing people in the fringe sections of their territory that's something anyone can do regardless of skill. These places are much less guarded. Here's a step by step instruction of how:
1) Plot a course into an empty sector inside them enemy system.
2) Take the WH into the system.
3) Make it 3km from any large object and jump to your empty system. (this is the only hard part)
4) When you arrive plot a course to another empty sector
5) Jump
6) Check your sector list (of the sector you're leaving) for defense bots if there aren't any skip 7
7) Go back to 4.
8) Go to any sector that isn't monitored or guarded and kill enemy nation players without bots bothering you. The only monitored/guarded sectors will have a station or WH in them in the outer systems, as you get closer to newb territory botting sectors will also be monitored. I would suggest picking sectors with hard to find bots which are often on combat lists (like 17s, there aren't very many sectors where players can find these).
Picking on lower lvl players who aren't into PvP isn't something I do, but I do test out how it can be done, so I posted this explanation to make sure that come release such things have been tested and balanced.
Here's how one goes about killing utter newbs in the top defended places (you'll need a hvy engine, a fast charge battery and some form of non-energy weapon, homers or sunflares, or if you're crazy try it with tachs).
1) Get into the system where new players are created
2) Ditch the def bots and hide out in a empty sector using the technique described above (You'll still be dealing with def bots, but only 1 group this way instead of bots from each system you passed through this way).
3) Pick your target sector;
a. botting sectors are the easiest, the players will be distracted with the bots they're hunting, the problem is they're least populated.
b. next easiest are WH sectors lots of traffic through these sectors, but your targets probably won't just be waiting around they'll move.
c. station sectors you have to deal with the station bots in addition to the strike force, on the other hand newbs will be floating around doing nothing and not really paying attention.
4) This is where it gets hard, jump to your desired sector, charge your batter for as long as you can before the def bots arrive (often no time at all). Then turbo, make small turns, go around objects, the person leading can make shorter paths than the followers (bots). You can't really rest at this point bots will be all over you.
5) While still turboing in a jagged path take a moment to look for your target.
6) If you're about 1km away from your target turbo at them (other wise just turn your path roughly towards them while still dodging until 1km away, the distance depends on your weapon load out and how much they're moving).
7) Unleash your weapon of choice, ideally you'll be killing your target in one pass... if you don't quickly repeat these steps until they are dead or have successfully run.
(Obviously this does not work when you're attacking a skilled player, the def bots are more than enough to protect them, barring situations like them being AFK)
Hopefully that'll make it some what easier for people who want to test the newb protection and then help the devs make it both adequate for the newbs without stifling higher level combat.
If you find anybody without a FC bat in territory where they're unprotected and you can get within 1km of them it's pretty easy to follow them wherever (and if you're a better fighter than them kill them). The problem is that high lvl characters (with FCs and hvy engines) can't be caught.
As for killing people in the fringe sections of their territory that's something anyone can do regardless of skill. These places are much less guarded. Here's a step by step instruction of how:
1) Plot a course into an empty sector inside them enemy system.
2) Take the WH into the system.
3) Make it 3km from any large object and jump to your empty system. (this is the only hard part)
4) When you arrive plot a course to another empty sector
5) Jump
6) Check your sector list (of the sector you're leaving) for defense bots if there aren't any skip 7
7) Go back to 4.
8) Go to any sector that isn't monitored or guarded and kill enemy nation players without bots bothering you. The only monitored/guarded sectors will have a station or WH in them in the outer systems, as you get closer to newb territory botting sectors will also be monitored. I would suggest picking sectors with hard to find bots which are often on combat lists (like 17s, there aren't very many sectors where players can find these).
Picking on lower lvl players who aren't into PvP isn't something I do, but I do test out how it can be done, so I posted this explanation to make sure that come release such things have been tested and balanced.
Here's how one goes about killing utter newbs in the top defended places (you'll need a hvy engine, a fast charge battery and some form of non-energy weapon, homers or sunflares, or if you're crazy try it with tachs).
1) Get into the system where new players are created
2) Ditch the def bots and hide out in a empty sector using the technique described above (You'll still be dealing with def bots, but only 1 group this way instead of bots from each system you passed through this way).
3) Pick your target sector;
a. botting sectors are the easiest, the players will be distracted with the bots they're hunting, the problem is they're least populated.
b. next easiest are WH sectors lots of traffic through these sectors, but your targets probably won't just be waiting around they'll move.
c. station sectors you have to deal with the station bots in addition to the strike force, on the other hand newbs will be floating around doing nothing and not really paying attention.
4) This is where it gets hard, jump to your desired sector, charge your batter for as long as you can before the def bots arrive (often no time at all). Then turbo, make small turns, go around objects, the person leading can make shorter paths than the followers (bots). You can't really rest at this point bots will be all over you.
5) While still turboing in a jagged path take a moment to look for your target.
6) If you're about 1km away from your target turbo at them (other wise just turn your path roughly towards them while still dodging until 1km away, the distance depends on your weapon load out and how much they're moving).
7) Unleash your weapon of choice, ideally you'll be killing your target in one pass... if you don't quickly repeat these steps until they are dead or have successfully run.
(Obviously this does not work when you're attacking a skilled player, the def bots are more than enough to protect them, barring situations like them being AFK)
Hopefully that'll make it some what easier for people who want to test the newb protection and then help the devs make it both adequate for the newbs without stifling higher level combat.
I think that defense bots to protect the newbies is good, but I think that a majority of them should only be kept in the really newbie systems. The core two or three systems for each nation. The border systems should be relatively undefended by bots, and be mainly for PvP attacking and defending.
This afternoon, silentsuicide (Itani) made a small incursion into Serco space, and stopped in the wormhole sector leading out of Initros. He decides to challenge any Serco who wants to fight. A little curious, (and being nearby) I jumped to meet him. We're in the same guild, so we technically could have dueled, but we didn't... Don't know why. Anyway, all of a sudden, a Serco suicide bot comes out of nowhere and blows up near silentsuicide (I think he killed it at the last minute). He's deep into the red, so I could have shot him once and kiled him. I'm about to ask him what was going on, when two more suicide bots jump in, and I watch the three of them rocketing out of the system. He made the jump to safety, and ended up getting KOS because he retaliated against a Serco who fired on him in Neutral space. Kinda funny, but it underscores how impossible it is to PvP. To be able to PvP successfully, people have to go way out of the way to places like Odia where they aren't monitored. Serco and Itani should be able to battle in the border systems as they were meant to.
This afternoon, silentsuicide (Itani) made a small incursion into Serco space, and stopped in the wormhole sector leading out of Initros. He decides to challenge any Serco who wants to fight. A little curious, (and being nearby) I jumped to meet him. We're in the same guild, so we technically could have dueled, but we didn't... Don't know why. Anyway, all of a sudden, a Serco suicide bot comes out of nowhere and blows up near silentsuicide (I think he killed it at the last minute). He's deep into the red, so I could have shot him once and kiled him. I'm about to ask him what was going on, when two more suicide bots jump in, and I watch the three of them rocketing out of the system. He made the jump to safety, and ended up getting KOS because he retaliated against a Serco who fired on him in Neutral space. Kinda funny, but it underscores how impossible it is to PvP. To be able to PvP successfully, people have to go way out of the way to places like Odia where they aren't monitored. Serco and Itani should be able to battle in the border systems as they were meant to.
Let me summarize Eldrads report: griefing noobs is still possible, higher level combat is not.
I spent some time yesterday after I had messed up, and the squads are definitely fightable. The Aerna seekers are -wonderful- fun.
What I would like to see is less monitored space, that'd make the whole game a tad more interesting (monitor a few sectors around a station and the wormholes...) Especially in "outer" systems.
What I would like to see is less monitored space, that'd make the whole game a tad more interesting (monitor a few sectors around a station and the wormholes...) Especially in "outer" systems.
Ok, how about this, if you happen to kill someone in a bus that is 1/1/x/1 or below in a nation space while you are in a ship thats a wraith or higher, then kamakazi bots and strike force bots should come and get you.
If you are in a bus with newbie equipment you kill another bus, tour rating should go down by 1. If anyone thats level 3/3/x/1 thats not in a bus or higher that kills another pilot that is about the same, then weaker def bots should come ofter you in small numbers. After, I think this is a fair game unless someone gets singled out.
If you are in a bus with newbie equipment you kill another bus, tour rating should go down by 1. If anyone thats level 3/3/x/1 thats not in a bus or higher that kills another pilot that is about the same, then weaker def bots should come ofter you in small numbers. After, I think this is a fair game unless someone gets singled out.
You don't need less defbots. You need a reason to pull people into grey systems.
I have to agree with Eldrad, his skill far surpasses mine, but with a FC/Heavy Vulture I find it only a little more difficult to avoid the def bots than it was to circle them for hours in the million credit flag cap days (when once before they were momentarily thought to be impossibly hard). Mind you with any other battery they tend to waste me within seconds of entering monitored space.
I see lots of good feedback here but we really need to wait on this one and see how things go as the level treadmill evens out. History has taught us that once you learn the def bots tricks they become MUCH less effective. Remember the bots were brought to this level because we testers have continually been able to subvert them and grief n00bs.
My current opinion: leave the bots but give them less sectors to patrole.
OTH: things were a lot more fun when there were minimal defenses and flag caps were player armada against player defense force. As the game population increases maybe some of the defense bot roles can be taken over by guilds. Or balanced against active player counts or something.
I see lots of good feedback here but we really need to wait on this one and see how things go as the level treadmill evens out. History has taught us that once you learn the def bots tricks they become MUCH less effective. Remember the bots were brought to this level because we testers have continually been able to subvert them and grief n00bs.
My current opinion: leave the bots but give them less sectors to patrole.
OTH: things were a lot more fun when there were minimal defenses and flag caps were player armada against player defense force. As the game population increases maybe some of the defense bot roles can be taken over by guilds. Or balanced against active player counts or something.