Forums » Suggestions
Trading rewards and running away
On the ever-famous topic of running away from fights... Traders run for two reasons: (1) they can; (2) they know with 100% certainty they are going to lose a fight against an SVG. Even if I fire off my missiles, I only use that as a distraction to escape.
Let's suppose that running away is nerfed, since there is good reason to believe that it's going to be. That just leaves the 100% certainty of destruction. (Supposedly taxing is an option, but I've never been taxed, just shot at.) The remedy for this is to greatly increase the rewards for trading, /especially/ for deliveries and pickups in grayspace. And the complement to big rewards is group trade missions.
You can suppose that nerfing running away will by itself cause traders to group together for protection, but I don't think that will happen -- trading will just go away, because the rewards would be cut to a third or less of what they are now. Big-reward group trade missions solves that. More importantly, if there are big group mission rewards, escort piloting can be made attractive. There are enough combat pilots who get cash-strapped from CtC, etc., that this might work on a cash basis. But what would be oh-so-much better is to get the escorts into the group and let them earn combat pilot experience and faction standing as well (even if there's no action along the way, it's still valuable experience).
Let's suppose that running away is nerfed, since there is good reason to believe that it's going to be. That just leaves the 100% certainty of destruction. (Supposedly taxing is an option, but I've never been taxed, just shot at.) The remedy for this is to greatly increase the rewards for trading, /especially/ for deliveries and pickups in grayspace. And the complement to big rewards is group trade missions.
You can suppose that nerfing running away will by itself cause traders to group together for protection, but I don't think that will happen -- trading will just go away, because the rewards would be cut to a third or less of what they are now. Big-reward group trade missions solves that. More importantly, if there are big group mission rewards, escort piloting can be made attractive. There are enough combat pilots who get cash-strapped from CtC, etc., that this might work on a cash basis. But what would be oh-so-much better is to get the escorts into the group and let them earn combat pilot experience and faction standing as well (even if there's no action along the way, it's still valuable experience).
anything that encourages teamwork (but doesnt harm solo play) is a good idea, some good suggestions there.
I agree with this post completely.
I'd have to agree with you there as well! =)
Good post...
Bah! The whole purpose of "grey space" is that it is supposed to be dangerous. Surely the primary "reward" of trading is the fact that you are making money, no? As you said "grey space" allows you to make far more cash, so it should be more dangerous. Besides, a competant pilot in an Atlas (eg. Hoax) can kill an attacking fighter with ease anyway.
Traders have had no concept of the dangers associated with "grey space" since the Beta and its about time things were corrected. It may even force some of you to learn some tactics, rather than the "lets hold TAB key for 5 minutes" method.
Traders have had no concept of the dangers associated with "grey space" since the Beta and its about time things were corrected. It may even force some of you to learn some tactics, rather than the "lets hold TAB key for 5 minutes" method.
icarus, he's suggesting group trade missions = more people for you to attempt to kill, but in order for people to group there needs to be an incentive. I dont think anyone in this post is suggesting grey space should be made less dangerous, just that there should be more of a reason to go there.
i.e.
Grey Space Cargo Mission
Deliver x amount of cargo to Odia M14 (dependant on number of players, i'd say make it at least a centaur's hold for every three players).
reward (per player): 10K credits (based on no. of jumps), 600 trade XP, 400 combat XP if enemies engaged (just suggestive values).
this would be a high risk mission, maybe have a counter pirate mission available from odia (if you manage to steal the mission cargo return it for some trade and combat xp)
i.e.
Grey Space Cargo Mission
Deliver x amount of cargo to Odia M14 (dependant on number of players, i'd say make it at least a centaur's hold for every three players).
reward (per player): 10K credits (based on no. of jumps), 600 trade XP, 400 combat XP if enemies engaged (just suggestive values).
this would be a high risk mission, maybe have a counter pirate mission available from odia (if you manage to steal the mission cargo return it for some trade and combat xp)
If you can see past all the wicked-witchiness, it actually looks like Icarus and I are saying the same thing.
running away should be nerfed. its way too easy. especially if you have mines and a fastcharge battery.
I think you could increase the value of making runs to grey space by changing how station stock levels are kept.
Right now, it appears that the station stocks never get really high or really low or empty. You can make the same cash run over and over and Station A's stock never appears to drop and Station B's stock never increases. you never get hurt by not paying attention to station stocks because it doesn't matter if they are empty or not.
If you want to see some heavy duty Team play...hear this.
Any of you familiar with Jumpgate and it's economic system will remember this. Back in the day, before "Matter Farming" got nerfed due to complaints that money became irrelevant, Jumpgate had the market cornered on team play.
You could bet that on each night, probably in more than one faction of space, a "Farm" would be developing. For any of you not familiar, "Farms" were simply Supply and Demand Driven.
Station A's stock for Commodity X was completely emptied and moved to Station B's floor. Station A's price Increased (cooked) dramatically creating a very nice reward for pilots interested in serious monetary gain. At the same time, the price at station B would have "cooled" off. At the given time, a Heard of Cargo ships would head off from Station B to Station A, dump their load for a serious profit and head back to B to repeat the process.
This system came to such a head that anti-farming pilots would reguarly raid these "Farms" and attack cargo pilots. What did cargo pilots do? They hired swarms of armed escorts to fend off pirate and anti-farm pilots. For a Cargo pilot to lose a load of Goods would be too costly.
Over all, you get Teamplay from Cargo pilots and PvPer's.
Mix this idea with what wylfing has proposed about Missions for escort and trade along with experience for combat and Trade, and you get a lot of folks having a good time pursuing their personal taste in the game and earing the Combat exp and money.
The stink of it was this. Farming got nerfed. A whole part of the gameplay was removed and anyone that was more inclined to running cargo and keeping score their way, Monetarily, just quit playing.
What made that economy exciting, at least to me, was that their were manufacturing trees for certain commodities.
A good exmple would be how we would have to mine Xhithricite ore, mixed with say primers and carbonic ore to make shell casings for Xith Rounds.
So you had to ship (run cargo) and keep station stocks up so that Commodity A + B + C = Final Good D (xith rounds).
This left an interesting problem on the shoulders of those that wanted to Home in Grey space or any other station and fight out of it. As a pirate, if you drop that ship that is running a good to a station you possibly used as a home, you may be killing the guy bringing the goods that you need to arm your ship with.
anyhoo, all I ask you is this, be careful about begging for things to be nerfed.
Right now, it appears that the station stocks never get really high or really low or empty. You can make the same cash run over and over and Station A's stock never appears to drop and Station B's stock never increases. you never get hurt by not paying attention to station stocks because it doesn't matter if they are empty or not.
If you want to see some heavy duty Team play...hear this.
Any of you familiar with Jumpgate and it's economic system will remember this. Back in the day, before "Matter Farming" got nerfed due to complaints that money became irrelevant, Jumpgate had the market cornered on team play.
You could bet that on each night, probably in more than one faction of space, a "Farm" would be developing. For any of you not familiar, "Farms" were simply Supply and Demand Driven.
Station A's stock for Commodity X was completely emptied and moved to Station B's floor. Station A's price Increased (cooked) dramatically creating a very nice reward for pilots interested in serious monetary gain. At the same time, the price at station B would have "cooled" off. At the given time, a Heard of Cargo ships would head off from Station B to Station A, dump their load for a serious profit and head back to B to repeat the process.
This system came to such a head that anti-farming pilots would reguarly raid these "Farms" and attack cargo pilots. What did cargo pilots do? They hired swarms of armed escorts to fend off pirate and anti-farm pilots. For a Cargo pilot to lose a load of Goods would be too costly.
Over all, you get Teamplay from Cargo pilots and PvPer's.
Mix this idea with what wylfing has proposed about Missions for escort and trade along with experience for combat and Trade, and you get a lot of folks having a good time pursuing their personal taste in the game and earing the Combat exp and money.
The stink of it was this. Farming got nerfed. A whole part of the gameplay was removed and anyone that was more inclined to running cargo and keeping score their way, Monetarily, just quit playing.
What made that economy exciting, at least to me, was that their were manufacturing trees for certain commodities.
A good exmple would be how we would have to mine Xhithricite ore, mixed with say primers and carbonic ore to make shell casings for Xith Rounds.
So you had to ship (run cargo) and keep station stocks up so that Commodity A + B + C = Final Good D (xith rounds).
This left an interesting problem on the shoulders of those that wanted to Home in Grey space or any other station and fight out of it. As a pirate, if you drop that ship that is running a good to a station you possibly used as a home, you may be killing the guy bringing the goods that you need to arm your ship with.
anyhoo, all I ask you is this, be careful about begging for things to be nerfed.
Like the others have said I like this post, group trade missions.
and I agree with Icarus "The whole purpose of "grey space" is that it is supposed to be dangerous", I go to gray space to se if I will get attacked, and give reports on Nation chat where the Pirates are, if I die no sweet its only credits and it gives me a chance to chat with my killer, and less time to traval back to where I started lol
Syberfly out: I live for the One, I die for the One
and I agree with Icarus "The whole purpose of "grey space" is that it is supposed to be dangerous", I go to gray space to se if I will get attacked, and give reports on Nation chat where the Pirates are, if I die no sweet its only credits and it gives me a chance to chat with my killer, and less time to traval back to where I started lol
Syberfly out: I live for the One, I die for the One