The built-analog output is softer by about 10dB compared to the digital output, so perhaps that's why you didn't notice it. I started playing on a G5 as well.

When you say "digital output" are you using an actual s/pdif or toslink output? I don't think the OS "volume control" functions will work on that in quite the same way, which might be part of the issue.

I'm personally using balanced analog monitor-outs directly from the RME box, and I just set the desired "system" volume in TotalMixFX.

I'm using a spdif output from an RME card, but it's identical in output volume to using the built in optical port of a G5 / mac pro. My volume is controlled externally, after the D/A conversion, by an analog mixer which sends directly to the speakers.

My speakers are calibrated at 80dB SPL, so this is not a question of whether or not I know how to set my volume correctly.

And yes, the OS volume controls only apply to the built-in analog output... if that's not selected the OS volume controls are deactivated.

Have you tried variations of upper and lower case numbers greenwall? We have seen that sometimes correct case matters when you wouldn't expect it to.

Greenwall, you started this discussion with:

I can't have VO's volume set any higher than 1 otherwise it's insanely loud (and even when it's set at one I have to turn my speakers way down). I know I'm not the only one who has this issue. Perhaps this is part of the problem?

And then you say:

And yes, the OS volume controls only apply to the built-in analog output... if that's not selected the OS volume controls are deactivated.

So, basically, you know the OS APIs (which are directly used by Vendetta Online to control things like "volume") are either not-available, or don't work the same way when using a digital output.

Yes, I would expect your output to be identical whether it's the system's built-in optical port, or an RME s/pdif out. Digital outputs don't have analog "volume" concepts, it would require real-time digital filtering to do that.

Now, it's entirely possible that the way VO works on a digital output is different from the way the system OS or web-browser or other "audio" apps work via the same digital output. We may be using OpenAL and they're using native CoreAudio, I honestly don't remember how we do audio on the mac. But this seems to be something OS-related, with a mis-match of user expectations on your part.

It's unfortunate that you have to turn your speakers down. But, if you want proper volume control in applications, then you should use a connection methodology that allows volume control in applications.

The best possible case here (based on the information you've provided) is that we might be able to juggle APIs somehow and improve the normalization of VO, relative to other apps, over digital sound output. We may look into that at some point, but it's not going to be a big priority.

I have no idea what an API is, nor did I expect the sound controls inside VO to work differently for different types of audio devices.

I don't have this "loudness" problem with other applications, such as iTunes, because they have a volume fader that has much higher resolution than 10. Or at least that's why I *thought* they didn't have the same issue (which served as partial inspiration for my suggestion post elsewhere). But perhaps it is because of whatever you said about OpenAL and CoreAudio... I'd like to think that there would be a way to set my VO volume to a soft level inside the application itself, but currently (for my setup) there isn't a way.

In any event, I just offered it up as a possible consideration for the volume issue you pointed out. Totally makes sense for this not to be a priority otherwise.

So, it's pretty common for Apple to have one "ANOINTED WAY" to do things internally, that they use, while they sort-of support a bunch of other open-standard way of doing things, which have more problems because they Aren't What Apple Uses. And then they change the "anointed" way of doing things.. kind of randomly. And often.

Thus, it does not really surprise me that we don't handle things the same as other apps, particularly Apple-made apps. I can practically guarantee we won't handle it the way ProTools or Logic will. But it wouldn't surprise me if some other ported-from-other-platforms games also had the same problem as VO.

I can also pretty much guarantee that the resolution of our volume-fader is unrelated to the issue.

Anyway, I don't know exactly what the problem is, we'd have to look into it. Chances are, we shouldn't be exposing a volume control at all for digital interfaces (much like the system), but that wouldn't inherently fix the issue. Clearly we aren't intentionally "handling" the digital-output case, and leaving it to whatever software-interface (API) we're using is not yielding the desirable behaviour. I can't speak to why.

What incarnate is saying is that sound is not equal to Sound, and also not equal to SOUND. They can change between them at whim with little or no notice or documentation. For this reason, we need to ensure we uphold a higher standard and ensure that we merge cases wherever possible.

Is that why my bluetooth keyboard works in iOS since iOS 7 on everything except Vendetta Online?

In that everyone else uses the Apple on-screen keyboard, and related functions.. sure.