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Discussion about ethical use of plug-ins in VO
I think this it's worth for everyone to see the outlook on in-game ethics of some VO players (mainly TGFT) through this brief discussion on ch 100.
[100] <Lisa201> SKV is pissed because we took two of the stations back last night when we needed them... even with them defending them.
[100] <IRCElder> not really pissed, Sieger played it well at the end. I was alone defending against 10 of you
[100] <IRCElder> and it still took you almost an hour to take it
[100] <Lisa201> lol, 10 of us? A little exageration there....
[100] <IRCElder> I am counting in 4 of tsreknors bots played with your attack plug in too Lisa
[100] <IRCElder> so, with them, yes 10
[100] <Lisa201> ya, it amazes me he can run 4 accounts at the same time.
[100] <IRCElder> with your cheat plug-in he can Lisa
[100] <Lisa201> lol, cheat plugin? All it does is hit the shoot button at 2000m... you have to target, and lock turbo... silly...
[100] <Lisa201> I think it's great that tsreknor supports VO by paying for 4 full-sub accounts. And gets creative in flying four ships at a time...
[100] <IRCElder> agreed paying for 4 accounts is helping the devs
[100] <IRCElder> getting 'creative' with the help of your cheat plug-in is not so great
[100] <Lisa201> It's not any more of a "Cheat" than that auto-fire thing on androids.
[100] <Lisa201> ya, only used to fire missiles...
[100] <Lisa201> So if you don't like my simple shoot at 2000m plugin, then you are REALLY going to hate the one I'm finishing now....
[100] <IRCElder> Lisa... I find all plug-ins that give unfair advantage in combat over people that actually fly their ships by themselves unethical
[100] <Lisa201> I really don't see how an un-manned ship that can't fly itself in any way unethical
[100] <IRCElder> it's unethical Lisa and it ruins the game
[100] <Lisa201> Plus it could only be used on a stationary target like turrets...
[100] <IRCElder> VO takes pride in it's pvp, cheap tricks like your plug-ins ruin that
[100] <Lisa201> SKV is pissed because we took two of the stations back last night when we needed them... even with them defending them.
[100] <IRCElder> not really pissed, Sieger played it well at the end. I was alone defending against 10 of you
[100] <IRCElder> and it still took you almost an hour to take it
[100] <Lisa201> lol, 10 of us? A little exageration there....
[100] <IRCElder> I am counting in 4 of tsreknors bots played with your attack plug in too Lisa
[100] <IRCElder> so, with them, yes 10
[100] <Lisa201> ya, it amazes me he can run 4 accounts at the same time.
[100] <IRCElder> with your cheat plug-in he can Lisa
[100] <Lisa201> lol, cheat plugin? All it does is hit the shoot button at 2000m... you have to target, and lock turbo... silly...
[100] <Lisa201> I think it's great that tsreknor supports VO by paying for 4 full-sub accounts. And gets creative in flying four ships at a time...
[100] <IRCElder> agreed paying for 4 accounts is helping the devs
[100] <IRCElder> getting 'creative' with the help of your cheat plug-in is not so great
[100] <Lisa201> It's not any more of a "Cheat" than that auto-fire thing on androids.
[100] <Lisa201> ya, only used to fire missiles...
[100] <Lisa201> So if you don't like my simple shoot at 2000m plugin, then you are REALLY going to hate the one I'm finishing now....
[100] <IRCElder> Lisa... I find all plug-ins that give unfair advantage in combat over people that actually fly their ships by themselves unethical
[100] <Lisa201> I really don't see how an un-manned ship that can't fly itself in any way unethical
[100] <IRCElder> it's unethical Lisa and it ruins the game
[100] <Lisa201> Plus it could only be used on a stationary target like turrets...
[100] <IRCElder> VO takes pride in it's pvp, cheap tricks like your plug-ins ruin that
It's not unethical at all.
It's actually really easy to make a plugin that does this, but the tactical use of them is pretty low so there's not a whole lot of benefit to having them.
Add to the fact that you have to pay another sub just to fly a ship kamakaze into the sector to blow empty its load and then blow up and buy it again. It's an extremely inefficient use of credits (yes I know they're beyond unlimited but im sure that will be fixed eventually).
She's also right that the ship can only be used against turrets, it's got no hope of winning a fight against a normal person and anyone can just run from swarms.
The only thing you can really say is stupid is that tsreknor doesnt have four friends to fly the ships properly. He's not going to win any fights with his bots and he's only going to be spending his credits really quickly if he keeps using them for station conquering.
Is buying 4 subscriptions so you have an advantage in station conquering unethical? That's the real question. The fact that he runs plugins isn't a problem. No plugins can give you an advantage in direct combat but if you want an advantage in numbers for the purposes of annoying your enemy then you can pay for that, but it's been that way for a looooooooong time.
It's actually really easy to make a plugin that does this, but the tactical use of them is pretty low so there's not a whole lot of benefit to having them.
Add to the fact that you have to pay another sub just to fly a ship kamakaze into the sector to blow empty its load and then blow up and buy it again. It's an extremely inefficient use of credits (yes I know they're beyond unlimited but im sure that will be fixed eventually).
She's also right that the ship can only be used against turrets, it's got no hope of winning a fight against a normal person and anyone can just run from swarms.
The only thing you can really say is stupid is that tsreknor doesnt have four friends to fly the ships properly. He's not going to win any fights with his bots and he's only going to be spending his credits really quickly if he keeps using them for station conquering.
Is buying 4 subscriptions so you have an advantage in station conquering unethical? That's the real question. The fact that he runs plugins isn't a problem. No plugins can give you an advantage in direct combat but if you want an advantage in numbers for the purposes of annoying your enemy then you can pay for that, but it's been that way for a looooooooong time.
Do we really need this here?
You could have easily brought up the topic without mentioning names; instead you went the extra mile and posted in-game logs. You also mention a specific group of players while making your point.
I can't say I'm pleased with this, as a moderator. It looks like a personal attack.
You could have easily brought up the topic without mentioning names; instead you went the extra mile and posted in-game logs. You also mention a specific group of players while making your point.
I can't say I'm pleased with this, as a moderator. It looks like a personal attack.
They're public logs so even though it is an attack on TGFT it's phrased as a question of morality and if you don't allow the logs the discussion will just eventually get to cover the content anyway.
Just let the discussion play out, we've had these talks before about plugins and most people are in agreement that the API has long since patched out anything that is sketchy in terms of ruining the purpose of the game.
Just let the discussion play out, we've had these talks before about plugins and most people are in agreement that the API has long since patched out anything that is sketchy in terms of ruining the purpose of the game.
I agree that the relative benefits and ramifications of plugins on play is a discussion worth having, but not if it's framed as an attack on an individual player or group of players.
I'm also not against posting public logs (we have a 'funny quotes' thread, after all), but in this case the point could have as easily been made without singling out an individual or group of players.
Framing this as a question of ethics also sets the tone for the thread. Approaching on even ground works best if the OP were sincerely interested in broaching this topic.
I mean... really? Survival questions are ethical. Whether or not to use plugins in VO could be discussed under significantly less existential framework.
VO's General forum is not a venue to shame or publicly humiliate other players.
I'm also not against posting public logs (we have a 'funny quotes' thread, after all), but in this case the point could have as easily been made without singling out an individual or group of players.
Framing this as a question of ethics also sets the tone for the thread. Approaching on even ground works best if the OP were sincerely interested in broaching this topic.
I mean... really? Survival questions are ethical. Whether or not to use plugins in VO could be discussed under significantly less existential framework.
VO's General forum is not a venue to shame or publicly humiliate other players.
I understand your concern Phaser, but without context this would just be a general philosophical discussion without people actually understanding the behavior in question or that it is actually being put to use.
I'm a fan of plugins that make game-play more efficient or targeted for a specific role. I agree with TRS that this doesn't really hive any huge tactical advantage, but I also think it is a bit ridiculous that we seem to have a single group which is intent on leveraging plugins to do things outside of the scope of their available manpower or ability.
Examples:
1) Spy plugin which was targeted at entire player base
2) Vote mute campaigns designed to disrupt station battles for their opponents
3) Auto-bombing plugin used to bring turrets down faster
In this discussion, I think context matters a lot, and it is important to understand that we're not talking about a one-off scenario, but rather a pattern of behavior.
I'm a fan of plugins that make game-play more efficient or targeted for a specific role. I agree with TRS that this doesn't really hive any huge tactical advantage, but I also think it is a bit ridiculous that we seem to have a single group which is intent on leveraging plugins to do things outside of the scope of their available manpower or ability.
Examples:
1) Spy plugin which was targeted at entire player base
2) Vote mute campaigns designed to disrupt station battles for their opponents
3) Auto-bombing plugin used to bring turrets down faster
In this discussion, I think context matters a lot, and it is important to understand that we're not talking about a one-off scenario, but rather a pattern of behavior.
it is important to understand that we're not talking about a one-off scenario, but rather a pattern of behavior.
I'll repeat: VO's General forum is not a venue to shame or publicly humiliate other players. That is not acceptable behavior.
The devs are readily available to contact if anyone feels another player is cheating. Publicly calling out other players or groups of players is not proper use of General.
I think this it's worth for everyone to see the outlook on in-game ethics of some VO players (mainly TGFT) through this brief discussion on ch 100.
I'm trying to read this in a positive light, but the intention seems pretty clear. I was hoping to steer this onto a better course, but locking it seems most effective now.
I'll repeat: VO's General forum is not a venue to shame or publicly humiliate other players. That is not acceptable behavior.
The devs are readily available to contact if anyone feels another player is cheating. Publicly calling out other players or groups of players is not proper use of General.
I think this it's worth for everyone to see the outlook on in-game ethics of some VO players (mainly TGFT) through this brief discussion on ch 100.
I'm trying to read this in a positive light, but the intention seems pretty clear. I was hoping to steer this onto a better course, but locking it seems most effective now.