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There was no scarcasm intended. Sorry if it came off that way.
I don't feel this was off topic.
"These are the reasons that come to mind why someone could get bored in VO:
1: Because of numerous changes the initial reason they joined doesn’t exist anymore."
Fair enough. The game is always in flux. This happens.
"2: They don’t have the time or energy to be as involved in the game because of real world interests"
Okay, though that's being busy elsewhere, not being bored. It's no fault of VO.
"3: Because of all the changes it’s just not fun anymore (not talking about the rules of conduct here :)"
The Rules of Conduct did not represent any changes at all. Otherwise, this is the same as #1
"4: Other newer games interest them more right now."
Okay, but same as #2
"5: Because some or all of their friends left they aren’t having as much fun. (I know they could make new friends but they would leave too)"
This gets back to my first post. That others would leave is an assumption.
"6: They really aren’t interested in the upcoming, or past, changes to the game."
Err, what? This sounds as if the person just isn't into the game at all. Ever. That isn't boredom, that's just a game you don't like.
"I realize you can’t please all the people all the time, we’re not asking you too. But you have no right to make sarcastic statements about people who are bored either."
I suppose saying "oookay" could be seen as sarcasm, but that's quite a lot of reaction to one word. The rest is all factual. There is an unprecedented amount of content coming down the chute. I found it odd that you would announce that you are bored. You published an opinion about it, and I responded. That is the beauty and curse of posting in forums.
I can do that, I just usually choose not to.
I suppose I'm moved to do so because you have been given the unique experience of having guide and dev support in running an event in the past (precious "family time" was donated, special commands were created, etc.), but have since turned and made some unpleasant (and unfounded) remarks about the guides and characterized the game as boring despite quite a lot of content in the chute. You have every right to state your opinion, as do I.
"PS: Please don’t lock the post because we went a little off topic. We’re going back now."
I generally don't randomly lock threads, or for one or two deviations from the central point (and again, this looks on topic to me).
"PSS: Please un sticky my thread here thanks: "
It was stickied???
I don't feel this was off topic.
"These are the reasons that come to mind why someone could get bored in VO:
1: Because of numerous changes the initial reason they joined doesn’t exist anymore."
Fair enough. The game is always in flux. This happens.
"2: They don’t have the time or energy to be as involved in the game because of real world interests"
Okay, though that's being busy elsewhere, not being bored. It's no fault of VO.
"3: Because of all the changes it’s just not fun anymore (not talking about the rules of conduct here :)"
The Rules of Conduct did not represent any changes at all. Otherwise, this is the same as #1
"4: Other newer games interest them more right now."
Okay, but same as #2
"5: Because some or all of their friends left they aren’t having as much fun. (I know they could make new friends but they would leave too)"
This gets back to my first post. That others would leave is an assumption.
"6: They really aren’t interested in the upcoming, or past, changes to the game."
Err, what? This sounds as if the person just isn't into the game at all. Ever. That isn't boredom, that's just a game you don't like.
"I realize you can’t please all the people all the time, we’re not asking you too. But you have no right to make sarcastic statements about people who are bored either."
I suppose saying "oookay" could be seen as sarcasm, but that's quite a lot of reaction to one word. The rest is all factual. There is an unprecedented amount of content coming down the chute. I found it odd that you would announce that you are bored. You published an opinion about it, and I responded. That is the beauty and curse of posting in forums.
I can do that, I just usually choose not to.
I suppose I'm moved to do so because you have been given the unique experience of having guide and dev support in running an event in the past (precious "family time" was donated, special commands were created, etc.), but have since turned and made some unpleasant (and unfounded) remarks about the guides and characterized the game as boring despite quite a lot of content in the chute. You have every right to state your opinion, as do I.
"PS: Please don’t lock the post because we went a little off topic. We’re going back now."
I generally don't randomly lock threads, or for one or two deviations from the central point (and again, this looks on topic to me).
"PSS: Please un sticky my thread here thanks: "
It was stickied???
I think he means the ancient capship battle thread thing. (for the unsticking)
Oh, ya that makes sense. He might have meant to link it.
(Must:::avoid:::thanking::::genka)
Thanks. I'll unstick it and set it adrift.
(Must:::avoid:::thanking::::genka)
Thanks. I'll unstick it and set it adrift.
FM: I would like to apologize to you and all the other guides, for any comments of mine you might have misinterpreted. I literally trust the all the guides with my life. And I trust them to do what they feel is the right thing.
I realize to help out with the cap ship battles each of you had to give up free time to do so. I honestly thanked you for your efforts then, and I thank you again here. Like I posted numerous times before the cap ship battles are impossible without the help of the guides and developers. Thank you again.
If you mean this comment, below please let me explain where I was coming from.
"I think you will find the guides will only enforce the rules when they see fit. They will probally only punish extreme cases and people who get on thier nerves. Which is not really fair, but i'm sure they will enforse the spirt if not the letter of the law. Because if they did enforce the rules strictly there would be no players left."
Incarnate and the other developers and guides have said that basically, “Because of the rules of conduct, there will be no changes to the game. We are using them to protect ourselves from lawsuits.” Is that last statement true?
If the last statement is true then what I wrote was right. As guides you don’t give everyone a warning that makes a minor infraction. You only punish people who are being extreme. And you are using you own GOOD judgment like you always have. And I said you “would enforce the spirit if not the letter of the law”. Which means as always you, and the other guides, will use your best judgment when decision if any action a player takes needs to be punished.
I do apologize for the “getting on your nerves” part. I got the statement from another post but it didn’t come out right. I meant to say, “players who constantly harass the guides”. Is that a better statement?
I didn’t mean for any of my posts to me interpreted as my mistrust of the guides or stir up controversy (at least not yet at least :). But my past and future posts will show the other side of an issue. But I will never stoop to guide or developer bashing.
See my post after that one, when I stated, in the same thread:
Tue 11:07PM
“Inc makes some good points and I'm glad the game is going to be basically the same even with the rules. I guess the real question we're all asking ourselves, but no one really stated yet, is "How are the rules going to be enforced?". Strictly or just in extreme circumstances?
If its only in extreme circumstances, by your judgement and the rest or the dev and guides, then i guess thats ok. Like others, I feared that the rules would be strictly enforced and I think alot of people would have a problem with that.”
Before I go let me thank you again for all your help. Believe me it has been much appreciated.
Jestatis Bess
PS: Maybe I should start an apology thread :) j/k
I realize to help out with the cap ship battles each of you had to give up free time to do so. I honestly thanked you for your efforts then, and I thank you again here. Like I posted numerous times before the cap ship battles are impossible without the help of the guides and developers. Thank you again.
If you mean this comment, below please let me explain where I was coming from.
"I think you will find the guides will only enforce the rules when they see fit. They will probally only punish extreme cases and people who get on thier nerves. Which is not really fair, but i'm sure they will enforse the spirt if not the letter of the law. Because if they did enforce the rules strictly there would be no players left."
Incarnate and the other developers and guides have said that basically, “Because of the rules of conduct, there will be no changes to the game. We are using them to protect ourselves from lawsuits.” Is that last statement true?
If the last statement is true then what I wrote was right. As guides you don’t give everyone a warning that makes a minor infraction. You only punish people who are being extreme. And you are using you own GOOD judgment like you always have. And I said you “would enforce the spirit if not the letter of the law”. Which means as always you, and the other guides, will use your best judgment when decision if any action a player takes needs to be punished.
I do apologize for the “getting on your nerves” part. I got the statement from another post but it didn’t come out right. I meant to say, “players who constantly harass the guides”. Is that a better statement?
I didn’t mean for any of my posts to me interpreted as my mistrust of the guides or stir up controversy (at least not yet at least :). But my past and future posts will show the other side of an issue. But I will never stoop to guide or developer bashing.
See my post after that one, when I stated, in the same thread:
Tue 11:07PM
“Inc makes some good points and I'm glad the game is going to be basically the same even with the rules. I guess the real question we're all asking ourselves, but no one really stated yet, is "How are the rules going to be enforced?". Strictly or just in extreme circumstances?
If its only in extreme circumstances, by your judgement and the rest or the dev and guides, then i guess thats ok. Like others, I feared that the rules would be strictly enforced and I think alot of people would have a problem with that.”
Before I go let me thank you again for all your help. Believe me it has been much appreciated.
Jestatis Bess
PS: Maybe I should start an apology thread :) j/k
ffs jess.
the rules that you see now are the same rules that you abided by when they weren't written out. The only difference is that in stead of the be nice understanding they had to put in options to protect themselves from individuals trying to start a lawsuit because of reason X,Y or Z. So instead of working for their own company, they would be working for the people suiing their pants off.
The guides have always used their own better judgment in deciding on how to behave. Naturally with incarnate controlling them on every step off the way. Every action, gets doublechecked by incarnate at the end of the day. Pretty much every hard action gets talked about with one of the devs first.
So in reality they aren't just using their opinions to form a decission but they are following the guidelines the devs set out for what is a healthy addition to their game and what is not.
Naturally over time there grows an understanding between the devs and the guides. Meaning they will be controlled less severe, and they will be more free to make decissions(since their work together already made them confident in their objectivity, their character and made them trust each other). If this ever gets harmed, then the devs will be the first ones to rectify this quickly. And you can always mail incarnate with these items, if you think there is abuse of any guide.
But saying that the guides can do whatever they want is preposterous... especially by indicating that people that harass the guides will get punished. It has nothing to do with being a guide or not. With the only difference that in this case the guide is there to witness the behaviour and will put it in the hands of incarnate to decide if they think it is this severe that it costed them a fun time in vendetta. But this is exactly the same thing for a normal user. If you think someone is harassing you in stead of playing the game, you can always contact incarnate and he wil check the backlog and see if the actions are contrary to the ideas they have about what is favorable or not favorable in a game.
The rules are there to give you a proper idea of what is acceptable and what not. But they aren't set in stone. They are guidelines, just as the previous unwritten rules were guidelines.
the rules that you see now are the same rules that you abided by when they weren't written out. The only difference is that in stead of the be nice understanding they had to put in options to protect themselves from individuals trying to start a lawsuit because of reason X,Y or Z. So instead of working for their own company, they would be working for the people suiing their pants off.
The guides have always used their own better judgment in deciding on how to behave. Naturally with incarnate controlling them on every step off the way. Every action, gets doublechecked by incarnate at the end of the day. Pretty much every hard action gets talked about with one of the devs first.
So in reality they aren't just using their opinions to form a decission but they are following the guidelines the devs set out for what is a healthy addition to their game and what is not.
Naturally over time there grows an understanding between the devs and the guides. Meaning they will be controlled less severe, and they will be more free to make decissions(since their work together already made them confident in their objectivity, their character and made them trust each other). If this ever gets harmed, then the devs will be the first ones to rectify this quickly. And you can always mail incarnate with these items, if you think there is abuse of any guide.
But saying that the guides can do whatever they want is preposterous... especially by indicating that people that harass the guides will get punished. It has nothing to do with being a guide or not. With the only difference that in this case the guide is there to witness the behaviour and will put it in the hands of incarnate to decide if they think it is this severe that it costed them a fun time in vendetta. But this is exactly the same thing for a normal user. If you think someone is harassing you in stead of playing the game, you can always contact incarnate and he wil check the backlog and see if the actions are contrary to the ideas they have about what is favorable or not favorable in a game.
The rules are there to give you a proper idea of what is acceptable and what not. But they aren't set in stone. They are guidelines, just as the previous unwritten rules were guidelines.
wow genka... wow.
:)
:)
JB: I hear what you are saying and I understand your comments a bit better. The "nerves" comment did come off as an accusation at the time.
I remain incredulous that people would be bored and discussing leaving / cutting back NOW as VO prepares to rise to a new level, but that's coming from the perspective of somebody who has played for an embarassingly long time.
Rene: I think that you and JB are saying the same thing? It looks that way to me.
I remain incredulous that people would be bored and discussing leaving / cutting back NOW as VO prepares to rise to a new level, but that's coming from the perspective of somebody who has played for an embarassingly long time.
Rene: I think that you and JB are saying the same thing? It looks that way to me.
I meant to say, “players who constantly harass the guides”. Is that a better statement?
no he ain't.It still smells, looks like an attack covered under some nice wrapping. But then he goes off again on a limb by questioning everything which had already been explaied for crying out multiple times by either the devs, you , me or other people.
I hope he bloody finally understands it. And I apologise for the language.
no he ain't.It still smells, looks like an attack covered under some nice wrapping. But then he goes off again on a limb by questioning everything which had already been explaied for crying out multiple times by either the devs, you , me or other people.
I hope he bloody finally understands it. And I apologise for the language.
People come and go, their other obligations change, they discover new interests, and they do get bored eventually. These changes the FM mentioned don't change the basic idea of the game, and I don't think it needs changing. But people do sometimes get bored with a game even as there are some changes occuring as long as it is still basically the same game. Sometimes people even get tired of just playing computer games in general for hours on end. None of this is the "fault" of VO, its just the way things and people are.
On a side note it might be a good idea to do some advertising for this game to help bring in new players as new players really help prevent bordom among the more senior players.
On a side note it might be a good idea to do some advertising for this game to help bring in new players as new players really help prevent bordom among the more senior players.
or they have a thesis to write...
if anybody has some information concerning crossborder consumerbehaviour that they are willing to share. Be my guest... I'm listening :D
if anybody has some information concerning crossborder consumerbehaviour that they are willing to share. Be my guest... I'm listening :D
mcduff: I really think that Incarnate is right, no advertisement should be done until some real content is brought into the game.
I played some MMORPG games and I got a better perspective of this topic. Vendetta just isn't ready to be announced as a ready game. Compared to other games it's just lacking content.
I bet this is being addressed with all that hive thing and mission editor.
Moriel
I played some MMORPG games and I got a better perspective of this topic. Vendetta just isn't ready to be announced as a ready game. Compared to other games it's just lacking content.
I bet this is being addressed with all that hive thing and mission editor.
Moriel
By REAL content you mean what exactley? More types of missions, more ships, more weapons, the ability for players to buy wingmen (AI piloted, following the players orders), more systems?
By real content I mean the things devs have been promising to bring into the game.
Now I know that developing those things with 3 or 4 persons is a hard job, specially slow job. We have to be patient.
But announcing to the world that Vendetta is ready for the larger audiance at this stage is just suicidal.
The mmorpg community is just demanding what they find in other games and vendetta must first be able to deliver what people are after.
Moriel
Now I know that developing those things with 3 or 4 persons is a hard job, specially slow job. We have to be patient.
But announcing to the world that Vendetta is ready for the larger audiance at this stage is just suicidal.
The mmorpg community is just demanding what they find in other games and vendetta must first be able to deliver what people are after.
Moriel
DAMN RIGHT! No ads until we can walk around in station and pummel people from across the hall with our elven bows with a +2 modifier for charisma, which is useful when courting the NPC barmaids!
Edit:
It's really amazing how one person can say "yea, I think it's a good idea to hold off on advertising for little while, you know, untill we get a bit more flesh on the bone" and it sounds like a bit of an embarassing truth, and then someone like tosheeba can say it, or at least something with the same general idea, and it sounds like he just called your mom some really bad words.
Edit:
It's really amazing how one person can say "yea, I think it's a good idea to hold off on advertising for little while, you know, untill we get a bit more flesh on the bone" and it sounds like a bit of an embarassing truth, and then someone like tosheeba can say it, or at least something with the same general idea, and it sounds like he just called your mom some really bad words.
Is it just me, or does some of genka's witty sarcasm tend to have more truth in it lately?
Oh, and Jestatis, regarding your claim that...
"I think you will find the guides will only enforce the rules when they see fit. They will probally [sic] our only punish extreme cases and people who get on thier [sic] nerves. Which is not really fair, but i'm sure they will enforse [sic] the spirt [sic] if not the letter of the law. Because if they did enforce the rules strictly there would be no players left."
I'll say that if the rules were hard and fast with "zero tolerance", we would not need guides and we could be content with our robotic overlords. Ever talk your way outta a ticket with a cop? Think you could do the same with a robotic cop?
Nothing will ever ever replace human judgement and common sense. I'd trust the guides to be fair not just because they usually ARE, but because they must take responsibility for THEIR actions as well. So of course they will always make the best decision based on information available.
Anyway, I'm still waiting to hear the stories about you causing trouble! If I was ingame I'd join you in doing so, but alas...
Oh, and Jestatis, regarding your claim that...
"I think you will find the guides will only enforce the rules when they see fit. They will probally [sic] our only punish extreme cases and people who get on thier [sic] nerves. Which is not really fair, but i'm sure they will enforse [sic] the spirt [sic] if not the letter of the law. Because if they did enforce the rules strictly there would be no players left."
I'll say that if the rules were hard and fast with "zero tolerance", we would not need guides and we could be content with our robotic overlords. Ever talk your way outta a ticket with a cop? Think you could do the same with a robotic cop?
Nothing will ever ever replace human judgement and common sense. I'd trust the guides to be fair not just because they usually ARE, but because they must take responsibility for THEIR actions as well. So of course they will always make the best decision based on information available.
Anyway, I'm still waiting to hear the stories about you causing trouble! If I was ingame I'd join you in doing so, but alas...
I haven't cause any trouble yet :(
Haven't had a chance to be in game in about 2 weeks :(
But i will take Borb's suggestion and start by "stepping on the grass " :)
And Lebermac: read my responce to FM here:
http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/7/11028?page=2#129320
I agree with you and the guides.
jb
Haven't had a chance to be in game in about 2 weeks :(
But i will take Borb's suggestion and start by "stepping on the grass " :)
And Lebermac: read my responce to FM here:
http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/7/11028?page=2#129320
I agree with you and the guides.
jb
Erm, I think you pour gasoline on the grass and then light it by shooting roman candle fireworks at it. Screw stepping on it.
LOL It reminds me or the scene in "Back to the Future" when George McFly is in a "rakish" mood and steps up to the bar at the soda fountain:
"Gimme a milk.... CHOCOLATE!"
That was living on the edge for him. You need to think BIGGER!
Don't hurt yourself trying to think of ways to be devious. Or emali me and I'll mentor you in the art of pushing the authority envelope. I bet Borb could help you out as well.
LOL It reminds me or the scene in "Back to the Future" when George McFly is in a "rakish" mood and steps up to the bar at the soda fountain:
"Gimme a milk.... CHOCOLATE!"
That was living on the edge for him. You need to think BIGGER!
Don't hurt yourself trying to think of ways to be devious. Or emali me and I'll mentor you in the art of pushing the authority envelope. I bet Borb could help you out as well.
Hehe, step one, how to properly tell n00bs that /roll will roll up your credits and make you rich....
"Or emali me and I'll mentor you in the art of pushing the authority envelope. I bet Borb could help you out as well."
And the point of attempting to annoy volunteers and hard-working game developers is what now? Go waste a big corporation's time.
And the point of attempting to annoy volunteers and hard-working game developers is what now? Go waste a big corporation's time.
Hey Renegade, are you writing that paper from the American side of the border? Or are you in Europe? Mexico? Fiji?