A good Seventy fourth Midweek Nation War. Decent turnout today.
Note that the Midweek NW is at 20:00 GMT for the Summer season.
Same Rules as the Sunday war .

The Itanis:
Spidey
The Aviator
Ricachet
Almighty Bob
slime
Fook Yu
iry
Jewells Nallorin
Milgrom Sharesis

The Serco:
Veracity
Keria Willenium
Blitzkrieg Bob
Aelius Sejanus
Alioni Royhu
Effe Esseme
Cro Bo Yoman
Schelling
sheffield
Mecha Touriuas
Death Striker

Grey/pirate

The UIT:
Ecka
Surbius Bondevo
Varangian
ishino
IRS
Mick
Teomyrino
Strat

Observer : %itan

A good NW, Itani and UIT engaging serco from the off . Good flying all round , a prolonged fight, but a solid win for the Itani team .

The five surviving Itani team member, Spidey, The Aviator, slime, iry, and Milgrom Sharesis split the 12 million TGFT / M. Wittman / Waldoze / John Eldritch / Tohasandra Chi / Captain Srear / Keria Willenium sponsored Prize

Many thanks to everyone that joined in.
If I've missed any salient points, let me know and I'll edit...

The wins:
Itani 27
Serco 13
UIT 31

Same time somewhere in Latos next week.

Ecka

A couple things: first off, #itan was a member of the Itani team, not an observer. It took part in the battle by healing members of that team.

Secondofly, I would like to petition for a formal ban of some sort on one person using multiple accounts in the nation war. To me, at least, that isn't really what NW is about, it should be one man, one ship, that sort of thing. Several people have expressed reservations to me that such a rule would be unenforceable, because you couldn't really prove if someone was doing it, but I don't think that is a big problem. I think the community can handle the trust inherent in such a rule, and for most people just the fact that it is banned will be enough. However, I understand how the presence of the ban might lead to witchhunts, so perhaps a formal disapproval would be enough, I'm not sure. I don't think the same tactics used this week will work as well again, now that we know what to expect, but there will always be new tactics, and I would like to see the Nation War remain one man one ship.

(note that I am not attempting to accuse anyone of wrongdoing, as I don't expect everyone to share all my ideas; the tactic used was quite interesting, and fully and completely within the rules)

Yep , Its a difficult one . Certainly one person , one ship is the spirit of the NW , but it seems pointless to introduce a rule I cannot enforce .

Player A has two vo accounts . At a nw that person flies a healing ship on account 1 and a combat ship on account 2 . They may be on the same or separate computers. They may be operated by one or more persons. At some point acc 1 is used to heal acc 2 . I, as host , have no legitimate method to determine that such an event has occured . I might suspect that acc 1 and acc 2 are the same person , but cannot prove that it is the case .

It must be said that I know of players with more than one account who would exploit this loophole, and other players with more than one account who I would trust absolutely not to exploit it .

It must also be recognised that I respect a players right to have multiple alts across multiple accounts . The fact that I understand player A acc 1 and player A acc 2 to be the same person does not detract from the fact that I should treat them as two individuals; I try hard not to be prejudiced in my treatment of alts.

I just hope that the community continues to enjoy the NW in the spirit it was intended .

Well, playing 2 characters simultaneously during the intense combat action taking place at the nation war also has its drawbacks, since at some point you will have to stop controlling one to focus more on the other, which leaves the unattended character very vulnerable, even to roids.

The tactic used in this case, as far as I could tell, was to take the second char off into the roid field away from the fighting, and only use him when a teammate needed a heal, at which point they would fly over to the healer and the person would quickly fire a repair at them and switch back to the first char. Obviously, it can be countered without too much trouble, but there are a number of reasons why I think it shouldn't have to be, which I won't go into here because I don't want to turn this into a big rant.

In response to Ecka, I absolutely agree. And I also somewhat agree with those who say that having an unenforceable ban just leads to unnecessary headaches further down the road as unprovable accusations fly. Perhaps just a note saying that such behaviour is discouraged? Obviously some will go counter to it anyway, because they can and they have a different concept of what the event is about, but there's no way to stop that no matter what you do. And, as the NW is one of the most enjoyable things about VO, I could not agree more with your closing statement.

Why did I never think of that? o.O

I'm not supporting this kind of tactic, but it has a very easy counter. Target the healer.

The Itani team presented it as 'our bot is relaying stuff during the NW.' They defined it as a noncombatant. All arguments aside, that was underhanded. It is like people think I call the Itani liars for my health.

While you are right, Ghost, that targeting the healer should be a quick and easy counter, it still shouldn't have to be done. Killing even a stationary ship takes time, and increases the chances that you're going to be shot in the back by someone else. It's worth it when you're taking a member of their team away, but if a member of their team has two ships, then killing one only makes the other one stronger. This isn't so much about the tactic being hard to counter as it is about the Nation War being a one man one ship event.

And, in response to Aramarth, even some of the blue team said after the war that #itan was there to relay for them. I think many people were very confused by the presence of the bot, which just means that in the future we should ask about such things more carefully. :P

well next time you see someone who's not moving in any other ship than an EC shoot him. (unless its ecka) :P

Yeah, it's pretty shady if someone tried to pass it off as a bot and then used it to heal.

Well, here's the relevant bits of the event from my errors.log:

[09/10/08 15:52:50] [100] <iry> just a secGis it against the rules to fly 2 ships into battle?
[09/10/08 15:53:34] [100] <Ecka Estenk> how do I know a player is flying 2 ships........ er .... officially ....
[09/10/08 15:53:36] [100] <IRS> Well, it's against the rules to return after being destroyed. Don't think there's a rule about flying in a ship with each hand
[09/10/08 15:53:57] [100] <Cro-Bo Yoman> Why would anyone be dumb enough to do that?
[09/10/08 15:54:10] [100] <Ecka Estenk> no comment
[09/10/08 15:54:11] [100] <Cro-Bo Yoman> both chars would obviously die.
[09/10/08 15:54:32] <Cro-Bo Yoman> which group should I join red team?
[09/10/08 15:54:36] [100] <Veracity> hey jenallo, youve only got 10 mins to get here to watch
[09/10/08 15:54:38] <Alioni Royhu> mine
[09/10/08 15:54:48] [100] <Jewells Nallorin> I know..I am hurrying
[09/10/08 15:54:50] <The Aviator> over here
[09/10/08 15:54:54] [100] <Jewells Nallorin> and hi vo
[09/10/08 15:54:55] [100] <IRS> One real ship, and four missileboats? (Two hands, two feet, teeth & tongue)

(snip out unrelated chatting)

[Itan]#itan: Out of range.
[Itan]#itan: Centaur MkII - 100% health 3130m away
I:Admire S:Hate U:Neutral
[Itan]iry: Out of range.
[Itan]iry: Valkyrie X-1 - 100% health 2102m away
I:Admire S:Kill on Sight U:Admire
[09/10/08 16:00:46] <Ecka Estenk> "Death Striker" , hope you havent got swarms or l mines on that .....
[09/10/08 16:00:51] <IRS> The Itani are bringing in the relay bot?
[09/10/08 16:00:55] <Death Striker> i dont
[09/10/08 16:00:59] <Veracity> gonna relay the war?
[09/10/08 16:01:09] <Surbius Bondevo> from a centaur?
[09/10/08 16:01:10] [100] <Mountain Lion> where is nw?
[09/10/08 16:01:17] [100] <slime> deneb n2
[09/10/08 16:01:19] <Surbius Bondevo> more like play in the war
[09/10/08 16:01:19] [100] <IRS> Latos D-2
[09/10/08 16:01:20] <#itan> this is jsut what it happened to be in
[09/10/08 16:01:21] [100] <Ecka Estenk> latos d2
[09/10/08 16:01:23] <Veracity> to house all the extra antennas
[09/10/08 16:01:24] <#itan> but it could relay
[PA]Teomyrino: Out of range.
[09/10/08 16:01:25] <#itan> i think

iry asked, then showed up later at the same time as #itan. It looks to me like there wasn't any attempt to pass it off as a pure relay bot- everyone already knew #itan was a relay bot, and iry just responded to Veracity's comment. It appears that some folks just assumed that was all it is, and didn't even bother to think of why it was actually outside a station. Surbius and myself even pointed out that it was here to participate, which should have been implied just by its presence. If anything, it was Veracity joking about it needing a Centaur to house the antennas that led to the false belief in some folks that it was there to relay. It just goes to show the danger of idle comments, I suppose.

Son of a bitch, it was my fault? Dammit.

So it wasn't an EC, which means it was a legit participant.

Yes, it's always your fault :D

My concern is not how it was portrayed to be participating; there may have been some miscommunication but that is not really their fault at all. My concern is that it takes time and concentration to kill a ship, especially when other people are shooting at you. If everyone can just bring two accounts to the war they can go hide one of them in the roid field, fight with the other, and then, when they die, come back in the first, entirely within the rules. And if you try to stop that tactic, by going to kill the inactive account, then you leave yourself open to attacks from behind and from the side as you do it. All to kill a ship that I don't believe should be there in the first place. That's why we have the war in a bot-cleared sector, and that's why you can't return to fight once you're dead. Seriously, it's not about "Well, you could do this and that would pretty much neutralize the presence of the second account," it's about the fact that the NW is about who has the best team of single fighters, not the best team of simultaneous accounts. You want to have a healer on your team? Awesome! But it better damn well mean that one person on your team has at least one less port for a weapon.

I see your point Denji, but if you see a non-EC ship in a NW that's sitting still, why the hell wouldn't you get rid of that potential threat while it's still sitting still?

I never saw it. I don't go looking for stationary ships in NW, mostly because a. I don't expect them to be there, and b. I'm usually pretty busy being attacked by all y'all. :P

I turn my back for one second and all hell breaks loose... Guys! Come on!

/me takes ITAN by the hand.

This way guys, follow me. Come on, here we go.

/me sets 'em straight.

ive got a simple question, is it the 74th or the 73rd midweek nation war?

noted LNH