A recent change in the Nation War's host has resulted in the elimination of the grey team. I feel Vendetta-Online's grey space role-players should be represented in this war, so I've decided to host another Nation War every Sunday. All players are welcome. I believe the updated scoreboard is correct.

[ALT]ernative Nation War # 364 will take place Sunday, June 16, at 4 P.M Est. The prize is 40M(or more) and is provided by [ALT].

Standard rules apply:

If you die or leave you are eliminated.
There will be a Serco, UIT, Itani, and Grey team.
To be on the Grey team you must be Tri-Kos or in a Pirate/Greyspace guild.
Returners must come in an Ec-88, or 89 and keep a good distance away from the fight.
No fighting in-sector prior to the host's announcing the start of the event.
No capships.

Wins
Itani 114
Serco 65
UIT 110 (+1 FFA)
Grey 51
Rainbow 1

So is this in addition to Nation War or not? If it's a separate event, it should not carry over the same scoreboard, or the same event #.

How will Grey team be determined? Tri-KOS, guild affiliation, or just by choice?

Grey team will by choice and or guild affiliation.. Obviously if you are in a nationalist guild you will fight for your nation.

@Nahin I'm continuing the scores from the last time a grey team was allowed.

VPR Nation war would have no legitimacy to keep the scoreboard as well.
VPR nation war shouldnt show any grey team victories and ALT nation war should start the count with the last nation war where grey team was still allowed.

I still think grey team by choice is a bad idea. Grey should be reserved for native KOS only regardless of pirate guild membership.

Ah, that makes sense.

I agree with Deathspores about grey by choice. There are so many ninny pirates with gold bars and admire everywhere that it would overload the grey team.

Well, what about grey by guild afiliation /standings. Unlike VPR war, I am open for suggestions. I could go with either being in a Grey space/pirate guild or being Native KOS

+1 to guild or native KOS

The important thing is to be consistent with whichever designation you pick, so that people don't flip flop on the same character. Otherwise teams become meaningless.

Personally I'm not a big fan of two nation wars running on the same day. Maybe you could host it on Wednesday night instead? (Or talk Ish into doing that with his.)

OTOH, Ish said he was mainly just running NW because nobody else was, so if this one works out he might just stop.

There was, for quite some time a Wednesday evening "midweek nation war". Several people have complained that Sunday afternoon does not fit with there schedules, and would enjoy having a similar event at another time. In particular, 2100 UTC is early morning for people in Australia and similar latitudes. 2000 UTC is even earlier morning.

I think events that complement each other is likely better for the game than events that compete with each other, but maybe I'm just a carebear.

Yeah that's a good idea. Wednesday evenings would be a great time for you to host your VPR War.

I'm not sure where you get the idea that the Nation War is a VPR event. VPR has been a prize sponsor most weeks, but others have contributed, not all of whom are allies of VPR.

You can, of course run events any time you like, but it might be more helpful to the community to schedule your new event that's similar to an existing, recurring event for a substantially different time slot.

Listen churl, you are the one who decided to eliminate a group of role-players from your Nation War. I don't see that helpful to the community. So I am now hosting a Nation War that is one hour before yours. People have been asking for multiple events on Sundays. This will give people a chance to attend two fun events as compared to one or none. This will also ensure that _all_ players can enjoy a fun event.

Nobody is excluded from the Nation War. The format of the event only supports certain styles of game play and role play. It does not, for example provide any trade or mining oriented activities, yet people who primarily trade or mine choose to participate.

And you eliminated a group that participates in a style of game play and role play that you do not approve of. The format of this event can certainly support these players as it has in the past. And through [ALT]ernative Nation War it will continue to do so.

I demand a miners team.

I understood it as 3 teams provided better action than 4 given the number of players that were turning out for the NW. I don't think it was based on disapproval of a given type of roleplay; VPR would be out of a job if all the pirates quit, after all.

I've participated on Grey team for quite a while, and it actually gets a bit challenging when there are only 2 that regularly show up for your team. Unless there's something I'm missing, you seem to be making this a bigger deal than it actually is.

style of game play and role play that you do not approve of

What? Ishathis doesn't allow an anti-pirate team (white team?), so does that mean he doesn't approve of anti-piracy either? Heh.

Let's be clear: I approve of the existence of piracy in VO. If not for pirates, I'd have to become nationalist and fight Serco or perhaps become a pirate so there would be pirates. Here are my reasons for not allowing a grey team in the Nation War at this time:

* It's fun to team up with people who might not be one's usual allies and fight people who might not be one's usual enemies
* Game mechanics do not support players being grey, which means:
* It's impossible to tell if someone's on your team by the color of their name
* It's impossible for *any* team to use channel 11 for team communication
* Plugins currently popular to designate friendly/hostile (makefriends, in particular) provide an easy mechanism to set people friendly/hostile by nation, but not by criteria like native KOS, making it more difficult for people to know who to shoot
* I'd have to make my own tracking plugin more complicated to keep track of the teams

You cite role-play, but there's really not much role-play going on in the Nation War. It's an opportunity for people to come shoot each other for fun and profit. Many participants suspend their usual role-play to participate. I suspend MY usual role-play and attempt to slaughter my allies, often with enemies as teammates. Why should you be any different?

When the game mechanics support a mission to add you to your respective nation war team, you can use game mechanics to exclude grey affiliated players from an event which is player created.

As established in our discussion previously, until the above condition is met, you are excluding this role-play group because you want to.