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How to do Territory Control

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Oct 02, 2006 SuperMegaMynt link
Coming from he who makes puns from mine name, I take your remark with less than a serious attitude.

Please, whilst we do add our thoughts to the collective forums, let us maintain an air of maturity. Act your age +30. If this qualifies you as dead, you are free to act your age.
[Edit]Shucks, I thought the good natured pun was quite funny.[/Edit]
Oct 03, 2006 exDragon link
Territory control is basically who can make the strongest claim. It is who has military control of the area. There are different levels of control. Someone could have there territory so that it is just a lawless mess, just for the fun of it. The only reason for an army is needed, in this case, is to prevent other from taking your sector away from. Another person on the other hand could impose fined to use the wormhole.

They way territory ownership could be seen on the map is the person or group who has 60% of the claims or more. You can make a claim by posting a guard or building a station in an area. Also in your options, there could be a setting to post claim. When on, any fighting you do is considered fight to control the sector. You have to turn it off so it won't count. This only counts though if you are fight a station, a guard a player posted, and another player. The game will have a rating system for each claim. A station or a capital ship ( that is always in that sector) will be a many times stronger claim the a posted guard. The claim strength will be based on what's making the claim and what percent of the day is that claim maker there. So NPC, stations, or a capital ship controlled by an NPC( or a group of dedicated players) will be the strongest influence.

My idea for the strength of claims

1 station = 100-200 points ( depending on the stations strength)
1 larger captial ship = 50-90 points (depending on the capitial ships strength)
a fighter or guard = 1-5 points (depending on the fighter, bomber or guards strength)

The strength of each one will be multiplied by the time spent enforcing it in minutes. Since there are 10,080 minutes in a week, a station there for the whole week will earn the claimer 100 points, half the week will earn them 50 points.

ex. if a capital ship is there guarding for 8,000 minutes of the week and the captial ship is rated at 75. Then the claimer gets

75 x (8,000/10,080) points from it in a week from this claim.

Everybody making a claim can set up rules and it will be up to the claimer to enforce those rules.

As mentioned earlier, every territory should say its statues like who is in control like GFT, no one, or not claimed. It should also have a conflict statues like peace , terrorism lvl( i'll get into that later), light fighting, heavy fighting, war zone, nearly empty.

Terrorism levels can only be established if there is a group or person in control( have 60% or up of claims) and there are a lot of attacks on the government by someone not making claims.

low is when people sometimes at territory claimer by the current ruler but not very often. This will be compensated for people that accidentally fire sometimes so it someone shots one shot at a base by mistake, the sector will not get a low terrorism rating.

medium has a an elevated attack level

high is you mind as well be fighting for control of the sector because you are being attacked viciously by people not making claims.

If a group of people making claims want to get together to control a sector together then there will be a way to add all there claims to a list with a group name(like the Triumvirate). That way they are all counted as one claim instead of separate claims which will increase their chances of controlling the sector. Even another group can be added to this list. like Chaos,GFT and CLM could be one group (like that would ever happen).

Claims would be calculated weekly so that everyone gets a fair shot to stake their claims during their weekly schedule. Every week, the borders will be redrawn if there is a change.

Each territory can choose to either be separate, part of a group with other territories(like th US), a subordinate of anthers territory(like the Roman Empire), or allied with one of the three nations. Each group can set rules that will automatically happen in the game. For example, a member of the group gets to buy ships cheaper and doesn't have to pay wormhole tax. While someone else will have buy ships at a higher price and will be chased by the guards if they don't pay wormhole tax. There could also be list of requirements that everyone in the group can look at, like paying weekly membership few. If they don't they will either be expelled from the group and or hunted down. This will work for territories as will well. If a territory submits to another territory, the ruling group could require a small percent of sells or weekly money from them, this will be automatic. If they subordinate territory decides not turn off the auto pay, then the ruling territory will get a message that the other territory has revolted.

Now you may wonder why territory A would want to submit to another territory B. If territory B is so strong that they could overtake A but instead of conquering B gives the choice of to A of to be B's subordinate. A excepts because even though they are giving B a small part of their money weekly, they would not be making not as much profit if they didn't have a territory at all and they want the protection B could offer. B likes this because they don't have to waste money conquering the territory.

In emergency situations, if A is having money problems, they can cut the payment they make to B in half for the week and send a plea to temporally or permanently lower the money that they are suppose to pay B. They get a maximum of three pleas. If B doesn't except the plea for that week then they only have 2 pleas left. If they do then they have 3 again. That way A can't plea every week. Pleas are meant for time of economic difficulty. A crafty owner could plea to save up resources to over through B so accepting pleas might be dangerous.

I hope I was clear.
Oct 04, 2006 Professor Chaos link
You were mostly clear, I think I understood what you're saying. The problem is that your system is unnecessarily complex. The idea that I posted earlier is that whoever has a station in the sector "owns" the sector. "Ownership" is different from control in that you might not control the sector you own. This is similar to real life situations where a city government might claim to be in charge of the whole city, but a neighborhood might be so overrun with gangs that cops don't even go there. City "owns" it, gangs "control" it. I believe that ownership is what should show up on the map, and control is a more natural thing that can fluctuate. Ownership changes when a station is captured, and is lost when a station is destroyed. Then whoever builds a new station there is the new owner, or whoever captured the existing station.

The only thing that should ever be maked "disputed" on a map is an entire system. It would be very hard to build a rival station in a sector where your sworn enemy already has a station and is "dug in." It is not so hard, however to build one in a nearby sector or a sector across the system from the same enemy. Each of you then has "ownership" of a sector, but both are making a claim on the system. The system therefore shows up as "disputed" on the map, until one or the other opposing forces is eliminated.

If you're dumb enough to make a new station in a sector neighboring, say, a Serco Capital, and to make it "independent," thus disputing Serco's claim on the system, then you're probably not going to survive long the Serco onslaught as your station is either captured for Serco or reduced to its constituent sub-atomic particles, or maybe simply melted by the Ooh Ray.
Oct 04, 2006 LostCommander link
Professor Chaos -- What about the situation where 2 groups build stations in a sector and LATER go to war?
Oct 04, 2006 Zed1985 link
aren't sectors limited to one station?
Oct 04, 2006 toshiro link
Why should they be?
Oct 04, 2006 exDragon link
I was saying that besides grouping with other territories and being by you self, you can become a territory in one of the three main nations empire. You will have a subordinate relation to them. Once part of them, they will automatically raise your prices slighty higher then what you set them( probably done by percent). The additional money will go to them. Since you are a part of their empire, they won't attack you. They will even send troops to help guard you because they want you around because they are making money off of you. This will be the easiest way to start a stations since you have a powerful empire giving you some protection. The only downside is that you have to agree to their rules like, you can't equip part to players that don't have the level and you must attack anyone they say is a KOS. Also you can only sell parts to people that have the level to equip them.

In addition to that you can agree to have a higher percent price increase added to your goods and they will send you more protections.

If you try to leave the empire, they will attack you and your protection from them will start to attack you.

Also when I thought of this way for controling sectors, I wanted to try to make it so that you can be considered the owner of a sector without having to put a space station in it. That way there will not be a stations in every sector.
Oct 04, 2006 Professor Chaos link
Sounds similar to this awesome idea.

As for your sales tax idea, that could work. Or you could opt out of that, instead choosing to pay a weekly or monthly fee based on the size of your station. You explained the subordinate situation very well.

As far as territory being owned before a station is built, well that would work fine in nation space, and makes sense. You buy real estate from the government. This means that at some point several rich players will buy up all the "land" (and I don't think there should be limits on that) and if you want a spot you have to buy from them. There will be competition there, so don't worry too much about prices getting out of control unless someone somehow gets his hands on every valuable resource in the galaxy. If a monopoly drives off all the customers, then in an expanding universe everyone will go elsewhere and those rich players will be forced to lower prices to stay above water. In grey space and new unexplored space, just build a station to claim it. This, like you said, would be harder, but you're not under any government but your own.

LostCommander: For the issue of two stations going to war later, that depends. If two stations are friendly to each other in different sectors in the same system in nation space, the system is owned by the government, the sector ownership is based on who owns the station. In this case, if one station declares war on the other, then the offending station is kicked out of the nation, and is an enemy of that government, and the system is "disputed" until that station is captured or destroyed. Alternately, if the station commits too many infractions and is caught too many times, creating a bad enough reputation, then the government might take action, up to and including declaring war on that station.

If it's in grey space, then obviously they're simply at war with each other.

If the two stations are in the same sector, then not only is the system disputed, but the sector, too. The same things apply as to the first situation, it just gets interesting because the stations are so close together.
Oct 05, 2006 exDragon link
From what I was saying, you don't buy a sector and having a station in a sector doesn't guarantee the sector as your territory. Since the territory goes to the person with the strongest presence, if there is a capital ship along with other ships ( working together) claiming a sector, they could be the territory controller even though there is a station in the sector.

It wouldn't be possible to sell territories since it is defined as presence in the area but you could lease it to people. It would be the responsibility of the territory's owner to provide for protection. This would allow the people, who buy the lease, to focus more on the economic part and not the military part. This would allow people with less money to have the protection of a huge territory while only having the money to start a small station. They could soly rely on the territories protection or make protection for themselves as well. This is the same thing as someone building a station in someone else territory and agreeing to be part of the territory(Democracy relationship though).

How a democracy relationship would work:

Everybody has to pay to a group fund. No one person would be able to use money form the fund. There are two ways this could be done

Direct Democracy:

Every body considered the owner will be able to go to a privite chat room and discuss how to spend the money or what they should do next. There you can post an idea on how money should be spent or what you can do next. If there is a 2/3 vote from the total active owners.

ex. if there are 300 members but only 100 are active, it will only take 67 votes for the bill to be passed. These votes can come from any of the 300 members. That way inactive members will not keep the group from spending money. Most likely the inactive members will never vote anyway because they are inactive. This is inactive from voting and not the game. Someone who doesn't regularly check the voting area will automatically become inactive but in someone knows that they don't care or will not be there for a while, can mark them self inactive so they don't slow down the voting for that period of time. In times of emergency, they can elect a person who will be able to access the territories’ money without anyone’s vote.

Representative Democracy:

It works the same as above only the owners can elect another owner to represent them. There will be 5-11 people controlling the territories money. They must always be active or else there position is open for election. The territory can chose how long the terms are for. They are elected by all the owners. Every owner gets one vote and the top 3-11 people with the most votes get the position. In times of emergency, the group of 3-11 can elect a person who will be able to access the territories’ money without anyone’s vote.

This guide can also be used to run a station if it is owned by a guild.

LostCommander, to answer your question, maybe it should be that only 1 guild or 1 person can own a station so that two owners ( which include guilds or people) can’t be at war with each other, since a guild can’t be at war with its self or a person can’t be at war with them self. I haven’t thought of any other way to do it.

Territories can easily break apart to the separate owners.
Nov 10, 2006 exDragon link
Here is another new idea on how to do station and territory control. All the station that there will ever be will already be on the made. Some stations should always be owned by the Itani, Serco or UIT. That way they can't be taken off the map. Other stations, that can be player controlled will be capturable. During a certain time during the week, like Saturday from 4:00-6:00 EST or 5:00-7:00 EST, stations will be damageable. If a stations HP is dropped to zero, it will not blow up. Instead in fear of their lives, the people of that station oust the current owners and give control to the entity that did the most damage to the station. If it happens to be a player then they will be in control of the station. Most likely though, it will be a guild. Each player will be able to register who they are fighting for (ex. The guild their in, someone or guild that hired them or them self. The default is them self.). After a station is taken over, it doesn’t have to be defended anymore during this time by the new owners meaning stations can only change hands a max of once a week.) Stations should show visible damage but only the owners should be able to see the HP bar(note: station should also show their damage throughout at all time during the week and all major enhancements should show. That way player can look at the station to try to get an idea on how hard it is to take over) After the fight period, the stations hp will go to 10% of its base HP. The new owners will have a week to recover its HP and upgrade the station before the next fight. Base Hp is hp without enhancements. When a station is taken over, it loses all of its upgrades and research (they where all destroyed in the internal fires or by the guns shooting on the station on the outside). If the new owners of the station already own other stations, the research will automatically transferred so it doesn’t have to be researched again. All of the physical upgrade will have to be rebuilt. If owner(s) loses control of every station they own, then they will loose the research as well. The owners of that station will be the owners of the that sector.



Then there is sector control. Every coordinate that can be taken over, except ones with stations, will have a control point. The control point might look like a tiny station. There isn't a place to dock on it. It’s just has antennas, weapons and empty slots for other stuff. During the time when stations can take damage, control points will be able to take damage. If a control points HP is dropped to zero the person or group( as explained above) that did the most damage will take control of it. Basically it works just like stations. It can only be take control of once a week; after the fight period it will go to 10% of its base HP; it shows visible damage; the owners can see its hp bar and it can be upgraded. Upgrading will be different though. Research will be done in the owner(s) station if they have one and to building new parts on it will be done through the station. When it is selected to build something on the control point and resource are spent. A bot or player (containing the supplies) will leave the station. If they are destroyed a long the way then the supplies can be raided from it. Once their, a building beam, with the same range as a mining beam, will shoot from the ship to show that they are building. Small components can just be installed which save a lot of time. Larger ones can be built right on it. The only thing in the cargo bay will be the resources for it and not the part. Parts build in this way can be made by mutable ships at a time and be done in several ships. If something take 2000 ore to build. A bot could come with 200 ore at a time and once it runs out of supplies leave to get more. This will take longer to make since it is done built in space and not in a nice factory. Using bots to build or repair will be research that can be done in the station. When you start off you have to do everything yourself. You can also have bots always escort these repair or building bots for their protection. If you don’t own a station then you can’t upgrade your control points unless someone sells the service of being able to use their station to upgrade control points. You can still repair you control point through the repairing gun.

Wormhole points will have two control points which have to be destroyed to take over the coordinate over. Wormholes can be seen as fortifications points. Because there is two control point satellites then it will be easier and cheaper to defend the area. This also means that its natural fortification limit is twice as high. Natural fortification limit is how well these satellites can defend themselves without player help or without putting bots in the area.

Now you may be wondering what the point in taking over this territory besides status and bragging rights. One idea is that you could charge a tax when someone goes through that area. It will automatically ask the player to pay( you could use the F keys for yes or no). If they say no, then they it will fire on them and the player can only run since they can only damage it during the fight period. If they ignore it and leave the sector then the next time they come back it will give them a one minute time limit before they are fired upon ( then 30 then 15 then 5 then as soon as they enter they will be fired upon). Also it will keep track on how much they own them. To pay off the bill if they are on the auto fire list or at any other time, a player can select auto pay old bills when entering to true. Then when they enter a sector only (does not work for sector they are already in). There old bills will be payed off and they will not be fired upon. They will be asked to pay for this time and the process starts all over again. The no timer the first time is so that if someone is new to it they will not all of a sudden be fired upon unexpectedly(if the warning message wasn’t enough). Also is removes the stress of worrying about be fired upon by players that submit to the rules. If you are destroyed by another player in that coordinate before you got a chance to pay then your bill will be cancelled and it will act as if you never entered that time. Tolls like this will be cancelled during the fight period and if the control of that control point changes then all debts for passing between it are cancelled. In addition to make it more covenant player can have an option set to auto pay any toll less then some amount. The owners could also sell passes to travel through all of their tolls any number of times for a period of a week. The owners could also toll depending on the traveler’s level. There would have to be a bar keeping the owner from tolling player below a certain license level.

Another advantage to owning control points is because of the part called Ion Storm Emulator. During the fight period, if the control point has this equipped and a player is on the stop them list then if they try warping through that coordinate they will be stopped as if there is an ion storm going on. Also once there the player can’t warp to any area except the way they came (that way they can’t go to a coordinate someone else owns and get to the station that way). To get on this list, that player has to damage a control point or station during the fight period( from this point fight period is now referred to as Territory Wars). This list is resets every week. That way if you fight during one week, it will not stop you from trading the next week (during this period). Control points follow your block list and all the block list of you allies tell it to follow. If you have control every sector surrounding your station then you can prevent your station from taking much damage, since once an enemy dies they can’t come back while your crew can still come back.

Tell me if you can think of any other advantage a control point could offer.

This leaves Territory Wars to finding the shortest distance through someone else’s control to get to their station. Though it should be designed that will proper guild support it should be very difficult to take a control point. This means it could take several weeks, months or years to get to someone else’s station. If it isn’t fortified though, the control point or station could be taken next week. With this system it will be nearly impossible to rule the entire controllable universe since the more you control, the more you have to defend.

Before this is done, there needs to be a lot more sectors, with unique wormhole connections. Some will have one wormhole which will make it easy to fortify while others will have 8 worm holes. Some valuable sectors could have a wormhole that skips across a large part of the galaxy. This means more players would like to take that route to save time so you the owners could charge a higher toll and more people would want to control that area.

If you decide to fight for an Itani, Serco or UIT, then the sector could be controlled by a computer and the computer works to upgrade all of the controllable sectors or the owner of a sector could designate their territory as part of that nation. They will be taxed by that nation but they will receive certain benefits like discounts from their nation. All of this was explained earlier in another reply.