Forums » Suggestions
Jex, I think I'm going to do Whistler a favor, and not bring your mother into this
(too late!)
The point is, when someone is backrolling, or simply just backing up, it's the same as doing in a boxing match. It's morally not right in real life to run away from a fight you started.
Now, hell yeah, this is a game. So I'll pull this; It gives the person backing up the advantage. Have you ever had a fight, and the other guy start backrolling first? What happens if YOU want the advantage?
If you back up, he either has to chase after you , and lose his precious seconds of extra dodging time (this is even more true if the attacker is using rockets) or he has to continue going backwards. Away from his opponate.
It's happened. I've had people tell me to start fighting, because I started going backwards...
Besides being a advantage to the runners and spammers, it also favors light ships, heavily. Sure, I can take out a Rev C or a Valk in my Rag. But I've been using the rag almost continually since the tail-end of the alpha test Remember Kastin Thunderclaw? When I wasn't insta-nuking, I was using tri-flares and duel screemers (until they nerfed the screemers. Now I'm using Jackhammers)
From a technical vantage point ; The engines are facing the back. The engine animation they use clearly shows something propelling out of the engine, providing thrust.
Ok, so they are using some kinda nifty gravitational drive? Prove it. And then tell me why it's a such a good idea to allow people to run during fights.
(too late!)
The point is, when someone is backrolling, or simply just backing up, it's the same as doing in a boxing match. It's morally not right in real life to run away from a fight you started.
Now, hell yeah, this is a game. So I'll pull this; It gives the person backing up the advantage. Have you ever had a fight, and the other guy start backrolling first? What happens if YOU want the advantage?
If you back up, he either has to chase after you , and lose his precious seconds of extra dodging time (this is even more true if the attacker is using rockets) or he has to continue going backwards. Away from his opponate.
It's happened. I've had people tell me to start fighting, because I started going backwards...
Besides being a advantage to the runners and spammers, it also favors light ships, heavily. Sure, I can take out a Rev C or a Valk in my Rag. But I've been using the rag almost continually since the tail-end of the alpha test Remember Kastin Thunderclaw? When I wasn't insta-nuking, I was using tri-flares and duel screemers (until they nerfed the screemers. Now I'm using Jackhammers)
From a technical vantage point ; The engines are facing the back. The engine animation they use clearly shows something propelling out of the engine, providing thrust.
Ok, so they are using some kinda nifty gravitational drive? Prove it. And then tell me why it's a such a good idea to allow people to run during fights.
Don't you want the advantage in a fight? The only reason anyone ever wins a fight is that they take advantage of their opponents weaknesses. Some of us do it better than others, and are therefor better fighter pilots. I've never had trouble catching up to a backward flyer. There are dozens of strategies to defeat the tactic, just as there are dozens of uses for it.
Lowering the reverse speed and/or thrust would create an artificial and unneccesary advantage for advancing pilots. In short, you're asking for a gameplay modification to compensate for your own lack of skill.
Lowering the reverse speed and/or thrust would create an artificial and unneccesary advantage for advancing pilots. In short, you're asking for a gameplay modification to compensate for your own lack of skill.
It says we are using them in the backstory [removed -Whistler]
Well anyways, I tend not to backroll, and some players I call backrollers are actually power strafers, IE they go sideways, not backwards, and its just as hard to counter as a back roll. But, like back rolling, there is a counter to it, its called curve ball flares.
Did you know that forwards isn't the only direction you can launch rockets? You can actually throw them sideways! You can also turbo fling em at your back rolling opponent to nearly always guarentee a hit! Yeah, rags loaded with rockets might find this strategy hard, thats because a light fighter SHOULD be able to run rings round a rocket rag.
[denied]
Well anyways, I tend not to backroll, and some players I call backrollers are actually power strafers, IE they go sideways, not backwards, and its just as hard to counter as a back roll. But, like back rolling, there is a counter to it, its called curve ball flares.
Did you know that forwards isn't the only direction you can launch rockets? You can actually throw them sideways! You can also turbo fling em at your back rolling opponent to nearly always guarentee a hit! Yeah, rags loaded with rockets might find this strategy hard, thats because a light fighter SHOULD be able to run rings round a rocket rag.
[denied]
"Ok, so they are using some kinda nifty gravitational drive? Prove it. And then tell me why it's a such a good idea to allow people to run during fights."
From Section V of the VO Backstory:
"As the giant Serco army began crossing the border, the Itani launched eight of their high altitude bombers, with over a hundred fighters flying cover against the unknown threat awaiting them in the skies. The Itani bombers were the pinnacle of their aerospace engineering, a testament to the innovation of the Itani engineers. Huge craft, powered by reactor driven gravitic pulse engines, their range was practically unlimited. However, due to their extraordinary expense and difficulties in manufacturing, the Itani military only possessed ten working spacecraft. When faced with the opposition of a ground force they could not possibly repel, it is understandable that they dedicated 80% of their flightworthy bombers to immediate defense."
Why is running legit? Because it's a tactic. Run away and fight another day. When the devs get around to making death matter compared to how it is now, you will see far more people running than you do now. Also, you're flying a heavy ship loaded with rockets. You aren't supposed to be able to flit around and hit everything. You're a sitting target, albeit a sitting target with teeth. As you've admitted, you've been using a heavy ship for the most part since alpha. Well, guess what? It shows.
When you play one of the more stereotypical RPGs (Final Fantasy, for example), what do you do when you come across a fight you can't seem to win? You go away and level up a bit, then come back and try again. That's running away.
What about when a predator chases after its prey? What does the prey do? Does it turn and defend itself, or does it run? It's called the "fight or flight response". It's a self-preservation method. It's a human trait. It's instinct. It works.
Don't go spouting about something being "honorable" or "dishonorable". We've been through that before on the forums, and the only thing people universally agreed on was that everyone has a different version of honor.
From Section V of the VO Backstory:
"As the giant Serco army began crossing the border, the Itani launched eight of their high altitude bombers, with over a hundred fighters flying cover against the unknown threat awaiting them in the skies. The Itani bombers were the pinnacle of their aerospace engineering, a testament to the innovation of the Itani engineers. Huge craft, powered by reactor driven gravitic pulse engines, their range was practically unlimited. However, due to their extraordinary expense and difficulties in manufacturing, the Itani military only possessed ten working spacecraft. When faced with the opposition of a ground force they could not possibly repel, it is understandable that they dedicated 80% of their flightworthy bombers to immediate defense."
Why is running legit? Because it's a tactic. Run away and fight another day. When the devs get around to making death matter compared to how it is now, you will see far more people running than you do now. Also, you're flying a heavy ship loaded with rockets. You aren't supposed to be able to flit around and hit everything. You're a sitting target, albeit a sitting target with teeth. As you've admitted, you've been using a heavy ship for the most part since alpha. Well, guess what? It shows.
When you play one of the more stereotypical RPGs (Final Fantasy, for example), what do you do when you come across a fight you can't seem to win? You go away and level up a bit, then come back and try again. That's running away.
What about when a predator chases after its prey? What does the prey do? Does it turn and defend itself, or does it run? It's called the "fight or flight response". It's a self-preservation method. It's a human trait. It's instinct. It works.
Don't go spouting about something being "honorable" or "dishonorable". We've been through that before on the forums, and the only thing people universally agreed on was that everyone has a different version of honor.
I'm just curious as to how this would work.
Reducing reverse thruster speed, that I understand.
What if I'm flying forward at full power, not turbo, and then I turn 180 degrees to face an opponent? Now I'm going at the same speed as before, but I am now moving opposite the direction I am facing. Is this desireable to using reverse? Would my speed suddenly decrease under the proposed system?
In my case, I strafe quite a bit but never use reverse. Sometimes I may end up moving in the direction opposite the way I'm facing as I track my opponent. There are cries of backrolling, despite the fact that I am always in range and never hit reverse. Is this desireable to using reverse? Would my speed suddenly decrease under the proposed system?
Reducing reverse thruster speed, that I understand.
What if I'm flying forward at full power, not turbo, and then I turn 180 degrees to face an opponent? Now I'm going at the same speed as before, but I am now moving opposite the direction I am facing. Is this desireable to using reverse? Would my speed suddenly decrease under the proposed system?
In my case, I strafe quite a bit but never use reverse. Sometimes I may end up moving in the direction opposite the way I'm facing as I track my opponent. There are cries of backrolling, despite the fact that I am always in range and never hit reverse. Is this desireable to using reverse? Would my speed suddenly decrease under the proposed system?
I like the idea. I'd be happy about anything that makes fights drag out less. But the power of rockets would have to be reduced and probably a few other changes, though.
Maybe a fixed value instead of a percentage, that would give lights and advantage especially when closing in.
Slightly modified version: As long as you press a direction key you move at full speed in any direction except backwards which only goes to 75-90%. If you let off any key (except backwards) you go down to 75-90%.
That would eleminate whistlers problem cause as soon as he'd let off the forward key to turn around he'd go down to that percentage.
Maybe a fixed value instead of a percentage, that would give lights and advantage especially when closing in.
Slightly modified version: As long as you press a direction key you move at full speed in any direction except backwards which only goes to 75-90%. If you let off any key (except backwards) you go down to 75-90%.
That would eleminate whistlers problem cause as soon as he'd let off the forward key to turn around he'd go down to that percentage.
For all of you who said this suggestion was from a lack of skill; Meet me ingame. I'll be more then happy to blow you up.
Hasn't this been already suggested?
Hasn't this been already suggested?
"When the devs get around to making death matter compared to how it is now, you will see far more people running than you do now."
Ack! Again I will state, that I am totally against this. Death should not matter. However that said, loosing should.
Let me be clear. It's obvious from all the thread chatter Inc has done over the years, that the goal is to have an economy that matters, and that we will be fighting over resources. Where will these resources be, well some will be strategic, like wormholes and station access. Some will be material, like mined ores. What will be important is control of those resources. Not life and death on a ship by ship basis, but the continuous possession of that which is important.
What will this mean. Well it will mean those players that get off on hit and run tactics in PvP fights, will probably still do those things. Without coordination with other players, a willingness to fight on even in a personally loosing situation in order to obtain a larger objective, or a larger scope mindset, these people will be annoying, but their small personal victories pointless.
When winning matters, then you will see far LESS people running away, because running away will mean giving up a more meaning full resource than their own ships.
The time will come that running to repair will be a hindrance, simply because getting killed will keep you in the fight longer, and get you back to it faster, and your own personal ship doesn't matter as much as holding or taking that sector.
Ack! Again I will state, that I am totally against this. Death should not matter. However that said, loosing should.
Let me be clear. It's obvious from all the thread chatter Inc has done over the years, that the goal is to have an economy that matters, and that we will be fighting over resources. Where will these resources be, well some will be strategic, like wormholes and station access. Some will be material, like mined ores. What will be important is control of those resources. Not life and death on a ship by ship basis, but the continuous possession of that which is important.
What will this mean. Well it will mean those players that get off on hit and run tactics in PvP fights, will probably still do those things. Without coordination with other players, a willingness to fight on even in a personally loosing situation in order to obtain a larger objective, or a larger scope mindset, these people will be annoying, but their small personal victories pointless.
When winning matters, then you will see far LESS people running away, because running away will mean giving up a more meaning full resource than their own ships.
The time will come that running to repair will be a hindrance, simply because getting killed will keep you in the fight longer, and get you back to it faster, and your own personal ship doesn't matter as much as holding or taking that sector.
Death should matter. We should have a separate consensual duel system that doesn't result in the death of either participant, and normal combat should have high stakes (AKA higher upper-end ship and equipment prices).
PsyRa has a point. I am inclined to agree with his post.
Death should matter for Capital ships for a certainty, but should the single pilot fighters have to worry about budgeting so much? I figure that a pilot who's flies for a certain Captain's Trident would have his ships paid for by the Captain, so long as he performed satisfactory work. As for nonviolent duels, I remember incarnate mentioning training weapons being a part of the new Faction schtuff.