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Guided Missle
a guided missle is just that. You fire it and start flying the missle from teh pit of your ship. Your basicly enter the missle, and your HUD changes to the missle's. Your ship just sits there while you fly the missle.
The missle is fast. it has a cruse speed of 70 and turbos to 200m/s. Being that it's so small, it hits 200 m/s in about 1.5 secs from a dead stop.
soo...
Speed: 70 (crusing) 200 (turbo)
Onboard Energy: 1500 (when the energy depleats, it blows up.)
The missle drains it's battery power at a rate of 1/s
Turbo Drain: 24/s (so the total drain becomes 25/s)
Dmg: 8000
Splash: 60 m
Armor: 10 (that's right. armor. you can destroy it!)
launcher cost: 25k
Rounds in launcher: 4
The missle hud has a built in radar so you can see where your targets are.
Sure, it can fly for roughly 25 minutes without turbo. But that's 25 minutes that your ship just sits there. if someone sees you firing this thing, you're screwed in a fight.
To have the missle blow up, you hit fire, which returns you to your ship.
The missle is fast. it has a cruse speed of 70 and turbos to 200m/s. Being that it's so small, it hits 200 m/s in about 1.5 secs from a dead stop.
soo...
Speed: 70 (crusing) 200 (turbo)
Onboard Energy: 1500 (when the energy depleats, it blows up.)
The missle drains it's battery power at a rate of 1/s
Turbo Drain: 24/s (so the total drain becomes 25/s)
Dmg: 8000
Splash: 60 m
Armor: 10 (that's right. armor. you can destroy it!)
launcher cost: 25k
Rounds in launcher: 4
The missle hud has a built in radar so you can see where your targets are.
Sure, it can fly for roughly 25 minutes without turbo. But that's 25 minutes that your ship just sits there. if someone sees you firing this thing, you're screwed in a fight.
To have the missle blow up, you hit fire, which returns you to your ship.
it's too much battery....
idd say about 1000.
if some one goes to an astro with a hole in it (like in 13 where there is an astoid that is complitly hollow...radar problems) then he can destory any thing (if he is a good ramer...)
but other wise...i like the idia
worshiper of the black moon, fistandantilus
idd say about 1000.
if some one goes to an astro with a hole in it (like in 13 where there is an astoid that is complitly hollow...radar problems) then he can destory any thing (if he is a good ramer...)
but other wise...i like the idia
worshiper of the black moon, fistandantilus
that's only 45 seconds of turboing.. 1500 gives it a full minute of turbo
I personally think your version of the guided missile is a god weapon.
It has a range of 105km. 105 km?!?! The thing has like 100x the range of any other anti-fighter weapon in the game. Radar only has a range of 3km. If I had these weapons I'd space myself about 10km out and happily hunt people down in complete safety. One hit takes out a bus, or a Vulture, or a Centurian. BOOM!!! Imagine you are the newbie going, "What the #$%@# just hit me!". Plus, I only have to get the thing within 60m of the target. Just let off the safety and the target gets waxed.
From the toys thread...
#102
Smart Missiles (L) - 10,000cr
Energy: N/A
Speed: 110 m/s
Damage: 1000
Proximity: 10m
Explosive Radius: 20m
Range: 30s
Repeat: 1s
Ammo: 16 (400 cr per shot)
*Special: The smart missile uses subspace to transmit to its parent ship an image of the target ahead and accepts guidance instructions from its parent ship. If the parent ship fires another munition of any type, the missile switches to its own guidance systems and homes onto the nearest hostile target. Smart missiles are extremely stealthy and show up on radar at only 1/4 the normal range, but are able to carry only a small shaped charge warhead.
It has a range of 105km. 105 km?!?! The thing has like 100x the range of any other anti-fighter weapon in the game. Radar only has a range of 3km. If I had these weapons I'd space myself about 10km out and happily hunt people down in complete safety. One hit takes out a bus, or a Vulture, or a Centurian. BOOM!!! Imagine you are the newbie going, "What the #$%@# just hit me!". Plus, I only have to get the thing within 60m of the target. Just let off the safety and the target gets waxed.
From the toys thread...
#102
Smart Missiles (L) - 10,000cr
Energy: N/A
Speed: 110 m/s
Damage: 1000
Proximity: 10m
Explosive Radius: 20m
Range: 30s
Repeat: 1s
Ammo: 16 (400 cr per shot)
*Special: The smart missile uses subspace to transmit to its parent ship an image of the target ahead and accepts guidance instructions from its parent ship. If the parent ship fires another munition of any type, the missile switches to its own guidance systems and homes onto the nearest hostile target. Smart missiles are extremely stealthy and show up on radar at only 1/4 the normal range, but are able to carry only a small shaped charge warhead.
ekk!!! you're right about the range!!! but 10k seems to be a reasonable distance to fire from. remember, the missle can be shot down. With 1 hit. you run out, you're screwed! you have to redock to get more. Put a 5k price per missle, and can you afford to lose that?
If you made it have a REALLY big radar profile, that might help. And lots of beeps.
hmmmmm.. /me has another idea to add to it...
It's a pretty visable weapon, even from far away. it is nice and colorful.
It's a pretty visable weapon, even from far away. it is nice and colorful.
Fly by wire is awesome.
Why not just make is really fast and really crap ass menuvering? Like the deemer.
Why not just make is really fast and really crap ass menuvering? Like the deemer.
not too crappy manuvering. medium would be OK.
finaly, someone else who thinks that it's a good idea
finaly, someone else who thinks that it's a good idea
I think it is a good idea, I'm just not happy with the implementation.
why? cause someone could fire it from 10000m away? It leaves you helpless. If someone sees you firing it, or manages to locate you, you're royaly screwed because they can just back up 1000m and rush you while unloading on your ship. You'll never know what hit you.
The nuke can go 4.2km before it times out. fired from a stop. It can go 28mk fired at full speed. So range is not a major issue, cause i could back up 10km from a station and start turbo nuking. no one would ever see me.
The nuke can go 4.2km before it times out. fired from a stop. It can go 28mk fired at full speed. So range is not a major issue, cause i could back up 10km from a station and start turbo nuking. no one would ever see me.
the n00ks arent guided, bop the dmg down to 1000 and Ill be happy
I'm less concerned about the range limits than I am about the splash radius, the high damage level, and the high top speed - but the range limits are problimatic given the splash radius, high damage level, and high top speed.
As you correctly point out, above 10km or so, all ranges will probably be in practice the same. I don't imagine that you'll ever see many exchanges between fighters at much more than 10km unless radar improves significantly (but see the toys thread).
But your weapon can once it gets into radar range, cut to turbo and close the last 3km in about 15s - half that if you catch someone coming toward the rocket. It is going to take a few moments for even a vet to properly translate a bare yellow dot on radar (What is that? Is that a mine? Is it moving?). A newer player probably won't even notice. Plus, all the rocket has to do is get close to do significant damage. You've effectively given the weapon a prox radius of 60m. Granted, it will do less damage at 60m than it would at 10m, but its still got a large area of space it can effect. And, finally, even if the chance of hitting is relatively low. The chance of replying is even lower. A decent rocketeer should be able to easily observe the movements of his target and evade a search for him. It's alot harder to scan for someone if you don't know approximately where they are than it is to keep track of someone's movements if you know where to be looking. Searching probably wouldn't be worth the trouble, which means that the guided missile user isn't exposing himself to any risk vs. at least a decent chance of taking down a bus, centurian, vulture, or warthog.
Your observation that you are helpless while firing is a) an assumption about the interface (that it will be descent like rocket view, vs. a mini-cam view), and b) not true for sufficiently long implementations of the range. Someone who is 28km out in space is more or less unfindable at present.
Finally, I'm not convinced that the only use of this weapon is sniping. Imagine an opponent at 1000m or 400m when you fire this weapon at them. If you are going -65 m/s, the best they can expect is to close the gap in 3-8 seconds. The missile closes the gap in 2-4 seconds, leaving you 1-4 seconds to reorient yourself after attempting to get in the hit. The target is best served not to try to charge you and close that gap (unless they out number the target). They are better served to keep thier distance and try to shoot the thing down. If you do hit, even if that is the only guided missile hit of the fight, it did a significant portion of the opponents hit points and they probably won't be able to survive whatever other weapons the shooter has even if they supposedly have an weapon advantage at close range.
Finally, imagine this weapon at dogfighting distance, say 200m or less. The shooter fires and hits turbo, bringing the weapon into 60m of the target in about the space of time it takes to fire two gauss. He then lets off and goes back into a barrel roll. This is pretty much how the same weapon is used in Descent II which has no 'long ' range in the sence we speak of it because everything is 'indoors'. Who is really helpless here? Are you sure you aren't creating a version of the old 80m prox radius avalon that exchanges alot of speed for 75% of the damage?
As you correctly point out, above 10km or so, all ranges will probably be in practice the same. I don't imagine that you'll ever see many exchanges between fighters at much more than 10km unless radar improves significantly (but see the toys thread).
But your weapon can once it gets into radar range, cut to turbo and close the last 3km in about 15s - half that if you catch someone coming toward the rocket. It is going to take a few moments for even a vet to properly translate a bare yellow dot on radar (What is that? Is that a mine? Is it moving?). A newer player probably won't even notice. Plus, all the rocket has to do is get close to do significant damage. You've effectively given the weapon a prox radius of 60m. Granted, it will do less damage at 60m than it would at 10m, but its still got a large area of space it can effect. And, finally, even if the chance of hitting is relatively low. The chance of replying is even lower. A decent rocketeer should be able to easily observe the movements of his target and evade a search for him. It's alot harder to scan for someone if you don't know approximately where they are than it is to keep track of someone's movements if you know where to be looking. Searching probably wouldn't be worth the trouble, which means that the guided missile user isn't exposing himself to any risk vs. at least a decent chance of taking down a bus, centurian, vulture, or warthog.
Your observation that you are helpless while firing is a) an assumption about the interface (that it will be descent like rocket view, vs. a mini-cam view), and b) not true for sufficiently long implementations of the range. Someone who is 28km out in space is more or less unfindable at present.
Finally, I'm not convinced that the only use of this weapon is sniping. Imagine an opponent at 1000m or 400m when you fire this weapon at them. If you are going -65 m/s, the best they can expect is to close the gap in 3-8 seconds. The missile closes the gap in 2-4 seconds, leaving you 1-4 seconds to reorient yourself after attempting to get in the hit. The target is best served not to try to charge you and close that gap (unless they out number the target). They are better served to keep thier distance and try to shoot the thing down. If you do hit, even if that is the only guided missile hit of the fight, it did a significant portion of the opponents hit points and they probably won't be able to survive whatever other weapons the shooter has even if they supposedly have an weapon advantage at close range.
Finally, imagine this weapon at dogfighting distance, say 200m or less. The shooter fires and hits turbo, bringing the weapon into 60m of the target in about the space of time it takes to fire two gauss. He then lets off and goes back into a barrel roll. This is pretty much how the same weapon is used in Descent II which has no 'long ' range in the sence we speak of it because everything is 'indoors'. Who is really helpless here? Are you sure you aren't creating a version of the old 80m prox radius avalon that exchanges alot of speed for 75% of the damage?
Ok. i see you trying to cut it down, so i'll try to defend.
If fire from 28km out, and hte missle doesn't turbo, it takes it 6.6 minutes to reach the target. Hell, people hardly stay in sector that long, and if the missile is shot down, you wont get another shot off before that person is gone. At full turbo, the missle wont make it that far. It would take it 2.3 minutes to reach the target, it can only go 1 minute at turbo.
at 10km out, it takes the missle 50 seconds of full turbo to reach the target. Almost a minute. and then you have 10 seconds of turbo left, or 250 seconds of normal flight.
Or at normal flight, it takes nearly 2.4 minutes to reach the target.
IF you fire at close range, yes, their is an imediate danger to the target you are flying the missle into. yes, if he doesn't dodge fast enough, he will get hurt. But! If he shoots down the missle almost as soon as you fire it, you take around 5000-8000 dmg. Also, you are pretty much abandoning your ship, allowing the target to get several hits off unless you blow up the missle probably wasting it.
When the missle gets in radar range (3000m) , even at full turbo, it would take the missile 15 seconds to reach the target. That's 15 seconds for it to be identified and dodged or shot down. If the target is coming right at the missile, that's 7.5 seconds to spot and identify it, and to dodge it or shoot it down.
At 200m, it would take 1 second to reach the target. The target could possibly be screwed, but as i said before, this means you have to abandone your ship and risk it being hit. And if you fire it while facin your target, he will probably be shooting at you, and you risk having the missle go off in your face. that's 8k dmg you dont need.
If fire from 28km out, and hte missle doesn't turbo, it takes it 6.6 minutes to reach the target. Hell, people hardly stay in sector that long, and if the missile is shot down, you wont get another shot off before that person is gone. At full turbo, the missle wont make it that far. It would take it 2.3 minutes to reach the target, it can only go 1 minute at turbo.
at 10km out, it takes the missle 50 seconds of full turbo to reach the target. Almost a minute. and then you have 10 seconds of turbo left, or 250 seconds of normal flight.
Or at normal flight, it takes nearly 2.4 minutes to reach the target.
IF you fire at close range, yes, their is an imediate danger to the target you are flying the missle into. yes, if he doesn't dodge fast enough, he will get hurt. But! If he shoots down the missle almost as soon as you fire it, you take around 5000-8000 dmg. Also, you are pretty much abandoning your ship, allowing the target to get several hits off unless you blow up the missle probably wasting it.
When the missle gets in radar range (3000m) , even at full turbo, it would take the missile 15 seconds to reach the target. That's 15 seconds for it to be identified and dodged or shot down. If the target is coming right at the missile, that's 7.5 seconds to spot and identify it, and to dodge it or shoot it down.
At 200m, it would take 1 second to reach the target. The target could possibly be screwed, but as i said before, this means you have to abandone your ship and risk it being hit. And if you fire it while facin your target, he will probably be shooting at you, and you risk having the missle go off in your face. that's 8k dmg you dont need.
Hmmm... I agree with you that it is pretty essential that the missile be a targetable (and destroyable) object, but unfortunately since we have no similar thing in Vendetta this is unknown territory as to how easy it would be to shoot down an incoming warhead. Presumably, we are talking about a weapon that is no less slender than a vulture and as wide as it is narrow. That doesn't present alot of target. How easy is it to hit a Vulture? How easy is it to hit a Vulture moving towards you at 200m/s? I can speak with some experience with X-Wing style games that shooting down fast moving incoming missiles is not always the easiest thing.
I do feel that the idea is a good one and its worthy of testing. I have made similar suggestions, one for a fighter vs. fighter weapon (smart missiles), and another for a capital ship vs. capital ship weapon (drones). But I'd rather see this idea introduced at a level that will turn out to be a little soft, than see it introduced at a level like the railgun and see the player community backlash utterly nerf a good idea - like the railgun. We still haven't recovered from that disaster, and I've been sour on the game (and the play testing community) ever since.
And as a final note, I'm still concerned about the way that fighters and cap. ships will eventually interact. You've a weapon that will blow through most any armor that is reasonable, and can attack from ranges equal to or greater than what is probably reasonable for a capital ship weapon. Avalon bombing is easy enough, but presumably a capital ship capable of say 75m/s velocity and 5m/s^2 accelaration will be able to dodge torpedeos fired at the limits of thier range by simply vacating the space it had occupied. This thing will track them, and put undo burden on the ship's fighter cover to patrol an excessively large area of space. As you said, at 10km you are more than 50 seconds of flight away.
I do feel that the idea is a good one and its worthy of testing. I have made similar suggestions, one for a fighter vs. fighter weapon (smart missiles), and another for a capital ship vs. capital ship weapon (drones). But I'd rather see this idea introduced at a level that will turn out to be a little soft, than see it introduced at a level like the railgun and see the player community backlash utterly nerf a good idea - like the railgun. We still haven't recovered from that disaster, and I've been sour on the game (and the play testing community) ever since.
And as a final note, I'm still concerned about the way that fighters and cap. ships will eventually interact. You've a weapon that will blow through most any armor that is reasonable, and can attack from ranges equal to or greater than what is probably reasonable for a capital ship weapon. Avalon bombing is easy enough, but presumably a capital ship capable of say 75m/s velocity and 5m/s^2 accelaration will be able to dodge torpedeos fired at the limits of thier range by simply vacating the space it had occupied. This thing will track them, and put undo burden on the ship's fighter cover to patrol an excessively large area of space. As you said, at 10km you are more than 50 seconds of flight away.