Forums » Suggestions
If I catch you in an XC that I know is full of Sedina chocolates, swarms, or group radar extenders, I'll let you pay. Obviously, the rates will be adjusted accordingly, but you'll survive the encounter as long as you cooperate.
if every ship got a utility port then the only thing you pirates would be scanning is noob traders and each other as every trader with 7k in their pocket would get a blocker. As things are now there is a decision that both the traders and the pirates have to make as to weather or not it is useful to have the scanner/blocker. where I'm going with this is that might be a bit early to say that a new slot is necessary as there are only ~3 thing to put in it.
flyinglama is correct. These things can and should require significant sacrifice. Some ships should get the benefit of built in addons (storm craptor, cargo scanning Hound, unscannable light behemoth), but as a general rule there should be a lot of limitation that comes with using these things.
re flyinglama: hence the nerfs for small constant energy drain (you want to block that cargo scanner? you're giving up infiniboost by a dash) and/or heavier weight (grid usage doesn't matter much with regards to cargo blockers).
Cargo scanner's should probably have some excessive grid usage and also a small constant drain (sure, you know what's inside the thing, but it's harder for you to catch up to it).
Group radar extenders are already freaking heavy. I think they'd be best being a bit lighter with a constant energy drain as well.
As you can tell, I like the constant energy drain solution. It limits combat/chase/running potential by a bit, but not by enough that it makes the units undesirable. It also adds a new area for balance that hasn't been explored much before, which I believe is appropriate for "utility port" style addons.
Alright, let's boil down this idea: arming a utility port (not a utility mod on a small-port, but just arming a utility port) causes your ship to drain 3energy/second (or 2, or 5... but you get the idea). Therefore the utility port has a bit of an inherent disadvantage, but not one that will cause people to ignore utilities like they currently do.
Cargo scanner's should probably have some excessive grid usage and also a small constant drain (sure, you know what's inside the thing, but it's harder for you to catch up to it).
Group radar extenders are already freaking heavy. I think they'd be best being a bit lighter with a constant energy drain as well.
As you can tell, I like the constant energy drain solution. It limits combat/chase/running potential by a bit, but not by enough that it makes the units undesirable. It also adds a new area for balance that hasn't been explored much before, which I believe is appropriate for "utility port" style addons.
Alright, let's boil down this idea: arming a utility port (not a utility mod on a small-port, but just arming a utility port) causes your ship to drain 3energy/second (or 2, or 5... but you get the idea). Therefore the utility port has a bit of an inherent disadvantage, but not one that will cause people to ignore utilities like they currently do.
you want to block that cargo scanner? you're giving up infiniboost by a dash)
Cargo scanner's should probably have some excessive grid usage and also a small constant drain (sure, you know what's inside the thing, but it's harder for you to catch up to it).
And it should do these things... why, exactly? Maybe if you want to do it as a separate port, thus preserving full weapons. But as a general rule, it need not do so in all cases.
Cargo scanner's should probably have some excessive grid usage and also a small constant drain (sure, you know what's inside the thing, but it's harder for you to catch up to it).
And it should do these things... why, exactly? Maybe if you want to do it as a separate port, thus preserving full weapons. But as a general rule, it need not do so in all cases.
honestly utilities should only weigh around 1-10 kgs and not take any energy its the simplest way to preserve the existing "balance" in the game and it makes much more sense as these things that are being added are pretty much only upgrades to existing ship functions. I don't know why every time we get something new people want to nerf the hell out of it. it's not like a valk with an utility port with a cargo scanner in it is any more deadly then one without a cargo scanner. now if add-ons for utilities come out that increase dps or dpe i can see needing some sort of nerf but things that add functionality to a ship should generally go unpenalized.
re: Aticephyr, I agree with you that if the scanner/blocker was moved away from the small port and into this new port that there would have to be a cost to keep the power creep down; but I don't think energy drain is a good solution because it favors the types of ships pirates use over the trade ships in that the pirate ships tend to have alot more thrust relative to their weight including cargo. however if there was a per use energy cost, say 20 energy per scan and 5 per block, or an widget for the large port that let you trade a set amount of energy for a set amount of thrust that would let traders get up to full speed before they ran out of power while making the Utility items have a cost. I don't see that later happening as it is very different from the way most things work in the game now.
the extra weight idea I like for mostly for selfish reasons because trade ships tend to have higher total thrust than the fighter ships, as well it makes a bit of scene that traders will be using more of these non-combative items, while many fighter will find that the losses in mobility are not worth the extra functionality.
this being said the way things are now is not all that unbalanced in that as long as I don't fly a non-mining behemoth in gray, most pirates won't be able to scan my cargo and will have 1 fewer gun to shoot me with. In short, I don't see the need to add the port now as things are more or less balanced and there aren't many items for it. a larger port scanner blocker would be nice so that the standard and light moth are more useful but it isn't that pressing.
the extra weight idea I like for mostly for selfish reasons because trade ships tend to have higher total thrust than the fighter ships, as well it makes a bit of scene that traders will be using more of these non-combative items, while many fighter will find that the losses in mobility are not worth the extra functionality.
this being said the way things are now is not all that unbalanced in that as long as I don't fly a non-mining behemoth in gray, most pirates won't be able to scan my cargo and will have 1 fewer gun to shoot me with. In short, I don't see the need to add the port now as things are more or less balanced and there aren't many items for it. a larger port scanner blocker would be nice so that the standard and light moth are more useful but it isn't that pressing.
Peytros is right. If it were already implemented nobody would whine about that magic thing called "balance".
How can a cargo scanner or utility port affect balance? There will be more reasons actually NOT to shoot the trader's ship. More reasons for (and joy of) a role play, less for (from) mindless shooting.
"if every ship got a utility port then the only thing you pirates would be scanning is noob traders and each other as every trader with 7k in their pocket would get a blocker."
Huh? Why? To get more attention and get popped? To get asked 1 mil for an empty moth? You dislike to role play, don't you.
"this being said the way things are now is not all that unbalanced in that as long as I don't fly a non-mining behemoth in gray, most pirates won't be able to scan my cargo and will have 1 fewer gun to shoot me with"
That's it. So, basically, no improvement to the play has been made. The devs gave us something what nobody will use. Great!
Wake up. If you will continue nerfing any and every addition to death, there will be only two classes of players in the end. A herd of noobs on trial and the vets shooting them.
VO always lacked new things for old players. Discussed many times. This thread is not about utility port but about VO philosophy. If you will keep only nerfing things, you will also keep nerfing the game as whole. Stop nerfing, start improving. It is human nature to maintain some progress.
How can a cargo scanner or utility port affect balance? There will be more reasons actually NOT to shoot the trader's ship. More reasons for (and joy of) a role play, less for (from) mindless shooting.
"if every ship got a utility port then the only thing you pirates would be scanning is noob traders and each other as every trader with 7k in their pocket would get a blocker."
Huh? Why? To get more attention and get popped? To get asked 1 mil for an empty moth? You dislike to role play, don't you.
"this being said the way things are now is not all that unbalanced in that as long as I don't fly a non-mining behemoth in gray, most pirates won't be able to scan my cargo and will have 1 fewer gun to shoot me with"
That's it. So, basically, no improvement to the play has been made. The devs gave us something what nobody will use. Great!
Wake up. If you will continue nerfing any and every addition to death, there will be only two classes of players in the end. A herd of noobs on trial and the vets shooting them.
VO always lacked new things for old players. Discussed many times. This thread is not about utility port but about VO philosophy. If you will keep only nerfing things, you will also keep nerfing the game as whole. Stop nerfing, start improving. It is human nature to maintain some progress.
"VO always lacked new things for old players. Discussed many times. This thread is not about utility port but about VO philosophy. If you will keep only nerfing things, you will also keep nerfing the game as whole. Stop nerfing, start improving. It is human nature to maintain some progress."
Because its worth repeating.
Because its worth repeating.
"VO always lacked new things for old players. Discussed many times. This thread is not about utility port but about VO philosophy. If you will keep only nerfing things, you will also keep nerfing the game as whole. Stop nerfing, start improving. It is human nature to maintain some progress."
We might as well repeat it again to reinforce the point.
We might as well repeat it again to reinforce the point.
Kindly get back on topic now and stop with the "me too's".
Because the number of players who are in agreement with a point that relates to the topic at hand is totally irrelevant, Whistler?
Moderation fail.
Moderation fail.
And it should do these things... why, exactly? Maybe if you want to do it as a separate port, thus preserving full weapons. But as a general rule, it need not do so in all cases.
Lecter, please read the last paragraph of the post you quoted. That post was something of a stream-of-conciousness... I boiled it down in the last paragraph (which obviously you didn't read).
Lecter, please read the last paragraph of the post you quoted. That post was something of a stream-of-conciousness... I boiled it down in the last paragraph (which obviously you didn't read).
Nope, definitely fell under the "tl;dr" category -- and I still suspect your "boil down" is really an edit. But it sounds like we're in agreement. If behemoths want to mount these, giving up infiniboost seems fair.
I'm less sure, however, that L port versions should be made. Seems like some limits based on port config, as well as on what you're willing to give up, are a good thing.
I'm less sure, however, that L port versions should be made. Seems like some limits based on port config, as well as on what you're willing to give up, are a good thing.
Wasn't an edit, as I'm sure a few here can attest to, but that really isn't the point.
As per Inco's post, I'm inclined to agree with much of it. If we nerf everything to provide "balance" (which seems to be defined as making sure nothing new is better than what was out there prior to its creation), then new things become pointless.
In utilities current form, I'm going to retract my previous post and say that nerfing use of a utility port may not be the direction we want to head in. If we were to create a cargo blocker which blocked scanning of all ships within a 500m radius, of course that would need to be nerfed, but at present the blocker/scanner increase interaction and roleplay, so I'm going to jump onto the bandwagon that's saying (and I paraphrase), "let's get people using these things. if we find we need to nerf them later (doubtful), we can do it. until then, let's get a utility port".
Oh, and I never said anything about large-port utilities.
As per Inco's post, I'm inclined to agree with much of it. If we nerf everything to provide "balance" (which seems to be defined as making sure nothing new is better than what was out there prior to its creation), then new things become pointless.
In utilities current form, I'm going to retract my previous post and say that nerfing use of a utility port may not be the direction we want to head in. If we were to create a cargo blocker which blocked scanning of all ships within a 500m radius, of course that would need to be nerfed, but at present the blocker/scanner increase interaction and roleplay, so I'm going to jump onto the bandwagon that's saying (and I paraphrase), "let's get people using these things. if we find we need to nerf them later (doubtful), we can do it. until then, let's get a utility port".
Oh, and I never said anything about large-port utilities.
I'm sure this will be a super popular thing for me to say, but I have never supported "aux" or "utility" ports. People can dredge up some really oldschool suggestions where I commented on that, but I haven't done so in a number of years, and it has apparently fallen out of recollection.
The basic idea of the port system was that Small and Large ports were generic. Ports could theoretically be used for weapons, scanners, even cargo capacity extensions and things. Different ships would offer different numbers and arrangements of ports. Thus, people could come up with various trade-offs (weapons vs sensors vs whatever). They were never ever intended to be solely "weapon ports", we just didn't have any of the other stuff I wanted to add. I would rather have someone give up a weapon to install a stealth addon. I have always liked the fact that there is no "perfect" ship config, just a series of debatable options.
Keeping ports generic adds a benefit to ships that have more total ports (particularly forward-looking to capships) and encourages grouping. It makes certain cases possible, like a group having a "sensor ship" that they all defend (you know, like the AWACS concept that has been cited on here a zillion times). With any reasonable application of utility ports, this goes away (unless I make some special "awacs-use" ship with a ton of utility ports, which then voids the whole flexible-use aspect of ships that we have always had).
The big argument for adding utility ports seems to be "so people will use them". This is not a big concern to me. We've had storm extenders forever, and no one uses them, because there is no real reason to. But there will be (which, granted, has taken me longer than expected). Same goes for scanners, blockers, stealth, and varieties of other things. I'm evolving the whole game, not just putting in a new addon, so I look at this addon in the context of the total game direction.
The basic idea of the port system was that Small and Large ports were generic. Ports could theoretically be used for weapons, scanners, even cargo capacity extensions and things. Different ships would offer different numbers and arrangements of ports. Thus, people could come up with various trade-offs (weapons vs sensors vs whatever). They were never ever intended to be solely "weapon ports", we just didn't have any of the other stuff I wanted to add. I would rather have someone give up a weapon to install a stealth addon. I have always liked the fact that there is no "perfect" ship config, just a series of debatable options.
Keeping ports generic adds a benefit to ships that have more total ports (particularly forward-looking to capships) and encourages grouping. It makes certain cases possible, like a group having a "sensor ship" that they all defend (you know, like the AWACS concept that has been cited on here a zillion times). With any reasonable application of utility ports, this goes away (unless I make some special "awacs-use" ship with a ton of utility ports, which then voids the whole flexible-use aspect of ships that we have always had).
The big argument for adding utility ports seems to be "so people will use them". This is not a big concern to me. We've had storm extenders forever, and no one uses them, because there is no real reason to. But there will be (which, granted, has taken me longer than expected). Same goes for scanners, blockers, stealth, and varieties of other things. I'm evolving the whole game, not just putting in a new addon, so I look at this addon in the context of the total game direction.
We've had storm extenders forever, and no one uses them
Not true! I enjoy plying the unmonitored storms of UIT and Itani space with a S-port extender.
The noobs never know what hit 'em.
Not true! I enjoy plying the unmonitored storms of UIT and Itani space with a S-port extender.
The noobs never know what hit 'em.
I use them for queen hunting!
Fair enough, I'm glad someone uses them :). Anyway, I imagine they will become more widely popular when we have more fogged sectors.
on some ships giving up one port takes away a lot of your total damage output mostly with ships that have 3 or less small ports. I have never been a fan of this more generic ports makes the ship more versitle that just reafirms every newbs thinking of OMFG HORNET AND RAGNAROK ARE DA BEST SHIP EVAR LOOK AT ALL THE GUNZ IT CAN HAVE.
please reconsider auxiliary ports (and specialization isn't such a bad thing in moderation :P)
please reconsider auxiliary ports (and specialization isn't such a bad thing in moderation :P)