Forums » Suggestions
@Inc:
Everybody want to be RICH. Preferably billionaire, filthy rich.
And also have on what to spend those credits: luxury ships, owning a station of factory, own a convoy, whatever average players cannot afford... there should be some ridiculously expensive items, like a golden Valk, that show status. Even if its specs are just average.
Also, Vets want and deserve some advantages in trade over newbies, just like RL market. Bulk trade, with lower but ensured profit. The Moth marks the changing point.
==DRAFT== about price ==DRAFT==
-Create demand. Stations require constant flow of goods.
-Relate prices to demand. Price = BasePrice + Demand - delivered.
-Price varies in bulk, i.e., change every 60 crates.
-Space logistics must be JIT - Just In Time. Stocking goods is such cramped stations must be expensive!
-Create a logistics company, universal. This will work as a regulatory mark. Devs can use it to fix prices. It also requires haulers to make 'special' deliveries, thus tipping about demand peaks.
-The same LogCorp operate the convoys, so a increase in piracy results in price increase, while safe space makes prices tend to base price.
-LogCorp have a 'magical' capacity of ensure delivery of goods, which only Devs can operate, so regulating market in a easy and simple way.
As result, when desired, instead of acting over prices in each station, Devs can operate over universal base price, "magic deliveries" made by LogCorp and each station demand.
-----//-----
I have been thinking a lot of it, and I see that some Logistics thinking is required to complete market.
The above draft has flaws, but I see it as an alternative way to trade problem, once properly polished and improved.
Everybody want to be RICH. Preferably billionaire, filthy rich.
And also have on what to spend those credits: luxury ships, owning a station of factory, own a convoy, whatever average players cannot afford... there should be some ridiculously expensive items, like a golden Valk, that show status. Even if its specs are just average.
Also, Vets want and deserve some advantages in trade over newbies, just like RL market. Bulk trade, with lower but ensured profit. The Moth marks the changing point.
==DRAFT== about price ==DRAFT==
-Create demand. Stations require constant flow of goods.
-Relate prices to demand. Price = BasePrice + Demand - delivered.
-Price varies in bulk, i.e., change every 60 crates.
-Space logistics must be JIT - Just In Time. Stocking goods is such cramped stations must be expensive!
-Create a logistics company, universal. This will work as a regulatory mark. Devs can use it to fix prices. It also requires haulers to make 'special' deliveries, thus tipping about demand peaks.
-The same LogCorp operate the convoys, so a increase in piracy results in price increase, while safe space makes prices tend to base price.
-LogCorp have a 'magical' capacity of ensure delivery of goods, which only Devs can operate, so regulating market in a easy and simple way.
As result, when desired, instead of acting over prices in each station, Devs can operate over universal base price, "magic deliveries" made by LogCorp and each station demand.
-----//-----
I have been thinking a lot of it, and I see that some Logistics thinking is required to complete market.
The above draft has flaws, but I see it as an alternative way to trade problem, once properly polished and improved.
Perhaps a decent compromise would be to have the demand spikes occur with greater frequency for items at stations where the higher demand could be expected and lower frequency where it wouldn't be (but still possible for any item to have a demand spike anywhere, even if it is highly improbable for some cases). I suppose such a system may still turn out to be overly complicated to program, though.
That wouldn't be very difficult. We could just modulate the bounds and how often the spikes occurred based on station class, for instance (Capitols have more consumption spikes, etc). I already talked about modulating them on geography (grayspace vs nation vs whatever), so this isn't much of a stretch.
But, it would still end up being basically random in terms of what items were spiking, when, and for how long.
The whole reason for proposing this demand-modulation thing is that changing an existing number is not that complicated. Doing a whole tie-back scenario, where 19 different things impact the number.. changes everything into a wacky black-box transform where it's challenging to know what the hell the outcome is going to be. Those tend to be time-consuming to develop.
On the other hand, we should have all the mechanics in place to do static, time-driven overrides on item price-drop-per-unit-sold and min/max values. So we would need to develop a system to modulate them, and come up with bounds (the latter being mostly something I'd have to do), but off the top of my head it might be possible to knock it out in a week. I could be wrong.. there might be other technical caveats in there somewhere, or a design problem I haven't considered. But anyway, that's why random is easier than truly dynamic.
And end-to-end dynamic economy would take us a couple of months, at a guess, and that is just totally infeasible for the moment.
Plus, it's easy enough to come back later and make the causal mechanism less random, ie, start tying it to actual consumption of items at stations (although probably not a hard 1:1 matchup of consumption to demand, but still, using real-world data to denote fluctuations). But for now, just back it with some bounds and random choices.
That wouldn't be very difficult. We could just modulate the bounds and how often the spikes occurred based on station class, for instance (Capitols have more consumption spikes, etc). I already talked about modulating them on geography (grayspace vs nation vs whatever), so this isn't much of a stretch.
But, it would still end up being basically random in terms of what items were spiking, when, and for how long.
The whole reason for proposing this demand-modulation thing is that changing an existing number is not that complicated. Doing a whole tie-back scenario, where 19 different things impact the number.. changes everything into a wacky black-box transform where it's challenging to know what the hell the outcome is going to be. Those tend to be time-consuming to develop.
On the other hand, we should have all the mechanics in place to do static, time-driven overrides on item price-drop-per-unit-sold and min/max values. So we would need to develop a system to modulate them, and come up with bounds (the latter being mostly something I'd have to do), but off the top of my head it might be possible to knock it out in a week. I could be wrong.. there might be other technical caveats in there somewhere, or a design problem I haven't considered. But anyway, that's why random is easier than truly dynamic.
And end-to-end dynamic economy would take us a couple of months, at a guess, and that is just totally infeasible for the moment.
Plus, it's easy enough to come back later and make the causal mechanism less random, ie, start tying it to actual consumption of items at stations (although probably not a hard 1:1 matchup of consumption to demand, but still, using real-world data to denote fluctuations). But for now, just back it with some bounds and random choices.
Everybody want to be RICH. Preferably billionaire, filthy rich.
And also have on what to spend those credits: luxury ships, owning a station of factory, own a convoy, whatever average players cannot afford...
True, but not everybody, anyway it makes sence.
there should be some ridiculously expensive items, like a golden Valk, that show status. Even if its specs are just average.
+100
Plus, it's easy enough to come back later and make the causal mechanism less random, ie, start tying it to actual consumption of items at stations (although probably not a hard 1:1 matchup of consumption to demand, but still, using real-world data to denote fluctuations). But for now, just back it with some bounds and random choices.
+1
And also have on what to spend those credits: luxury ships, owning a station of factory, own a convoy, whatever average players cannot afford...
True, but not everybody, anyway it makes sence.
there should be some ridiculously expensive items, like a golden Valk, that show status. Even if its specs are just average.
+100
Plus, it's easy enough to come back later and make the causal mechanism less random, ie, start tying it to actual consumption of items at stations (although probably not a hard 1:1 matchup of consumption to demand, but still, using real-world data to denote fluctuations). But for now, just back it with some bounds and random choices.
+1
I'm not opposed to your what your suggesting Inc. I need to think about it a bit more though.
I don't think this is too far off of realistic to be honest. You already have procurement missions, the trade bulletin and the station want list.
I'm sure I'll catch flak for this, but I don't really think the need to ensure a fair playing field is that strong. The tools are there in the public plugins for all players to create their own data to work from- if they are willing to put in the effort. Also, currently only a few items trade at a prime profit range. Anyone can do what I used to do, which was load up a centaur with one of each promising item and fly around a bit. Its actually much easier and faster these days because of the jettison information. And to be frank, one of the things that keeps me drawn to VO is the investment I've put in in time and tedium to support my guilds interests. I consider it the most satisfying thing I've done on VO.
To answer your question, for me specifically the pleasure is in the hunt.
I wouldn't say that I like the idea of secret or hidden routes. All of the routes I traded were well enough known. I only happened upon them at their peak before any other traders did.
I don't think this is too far off of realistic to be honest. You already have procurement missions, the trade bulletin and the station want list.
I'm sure I'll catch flak for this, but I don't really think the need to ensure a fair playing field is that strong. The tools are there in the public plugins for all players to create their own data to work from- if they are willing to put in the effort. Also, currently only a few items trade at a prime profit range. Anyone can do what I used to do, which was load up a centaur with one of each promising item and fly around a bit. Its actually much easier and faster these days because of the jettison information. And to be frank, one of the things that keeps me drawn to VO is the investment I've put in in time and tedium to support my guilds interests. I consider it the most satisfying thing I've done on VO.
To answer your question, for me specifically the pleasure is in the hunt.
I wouldn't say that I like the idea of secret or hidden routes. All of the routes I traded were well enough known. I only happened upon them at their peak before any other traders did.
Make it so that there is more incentive to trade in grey, so much so that its about 4x profit... 4x cargo taur->xc
Inc: Regarding you idea about random lucrative trade routes:
I think these routes should occur in regional groups. This would create a "hot trade system," therefore drawing the few players we have into better contact with one another. This "hot trade system" could change a few times a day. The changeover could be gradual - as prices cool, traders know that another "hot trade system" is out there.
I think these routes should occur in regional groups. This would create a "hot trade system," therefore drawing the few players we have into better contact with one another. This "hot trade system" could change a few times a day. The changeover could be gradual - as prices cool, traders know that another "hot trade system" is out there.
How about you announce half of these and leave the other half unannounced, for players to find? That way there would be a few "official" routes, and a few more players to discover themselves... also, the more expensive the item, the more potential profit :)
One good way to implement:
Add a BBS-like tab, with 'sub-tabs' for local/nation/universal ads, both offering and requesting commodities. And some higher profit hauler jobs (much like procurement, pick up stuff here, deliver there) that could tip off most lucrative (and dangerous) routes.
This could be made inside a revamped "Trade Guild" mission, maybe renamed as "Universal Trade Portal". Very like web's B2B portals, with text-only interface.
While building that, add another 'sub-tab' for B2C as player ads.
Add a BBS-like tab, with 'sub-tabs' for local/nation/universal ads, both offering and requesting commodities. And some higher profit hauler jobs (much like procurement, pick up stuff here, deliver there) that could tip off most lucrative (and dangerous) routes.
This could be made inside a revamped "Trade Guild" mission, maybe renamed as "Universal Trade Portal". Very like web's B2B portals, with text-only interface.
While building that, add another 'sub-tab' for B2C as player ads.
+1 Alloh