Centurions, being smaller, lighter fighters than Vultures should be lighter than Vultures. Every non-faction Centurion is, in fact as heavy or heavier. The Mk. III should lose 1000kg. Other models, a bit less.

no this idea is stupid. they are low level ships and they can already out run valks and vults and pretty much anything else except a hog 2 or greyhound plus 1000kg lighter would but it in superlight range while having more armor at a fraction of a percent of the cost.

all in all your suggestion was not well thought out and is made of fail.

Cent Mk3 needs a bit of a buff, but not -1000kg, maybe more like -300kg, which would put it at 3900kg. It's already light and maneuverable as long as you dont put heavy guns like Gauss on it.

+1 to abortretryfail.

A 3200kg Mk. III would be like a Rev. C with less thrust, less armor, less speed and missing a gun port. That would put it about in line with non-faction Vultures as a combat ship. The Rev. C itself is matched or beaten in every area but cargo by the IBG, which Itani get access to quite early on (2/3/-/-/-).

I'm not trying to make überships here - just to make the non-faction Centurions better than totally worthless.

that's the whole point of having "special" ships...

Makes even more sense once the faction system is "fixed"

Centurion threes having 3200kg mass would be very bad.

If so, it would essentially be a scaled down superlight (very scaled down, I'd admit... 300kgs more, more thrust, less torque[?], more armor, 10m/s slower...) that costs 2000c compared to requiring a mission tree and over an XC of cargo from all around to make. It would annihilate the point of superlights. The difficulty of getting them would eliminate the usefulness compared to this.

Rev c's and IBGs do not eliminate the usefulness of the SL because they 1: require standing 2: have high prices and repair prices and, in the case of the IBG, 3: is rendered rather unfavored next to a Valkyrie Vigilant or X-1 (valks have more armor, more ports for versatility, and much better turbo efficiency). IBG's are only available in Itani space for a high price and very high faction standing. Rev c's require a very high level of Orion standing. Cent3s have absolutely no faction requirement and are available virtually everywhere.

Superlights are already barely worth getting, and in many peoples' opinion not worth getting. The last thing it needs is something nerfed a bit but available for a puny 2000c.

A significantly smaller decrease in mass, perhaps 300kgs as abortretryfail suggested, as far as I can tell, would definitely be better.

EDIT: Peytros was pretty much on that time, though his rudeness hasn't any excuse...

+1 to peytros

peytros touches on a valid point, though I think it's orthogonal to the issue of the Centurion being too crappy relative to the Vulture. That point is that it's too easy to run away in VO. I can get away from *anything* in a Vulture Mk. III and probably even a Centurion Mk. III. Lightening the Centurion would make it a bit easier to run away in the Centurion, but using that as an argument here is like arguing that the pig is wearing the wrong shade of lipstick.

As for performance relative to the Superlight, I'd be happy to duel Nahin in one again to illustrate that the Cent3 I'm proposing here isn't even close. 10m/s extra maneuvering speed is *huge* in VO. Even 5m/s is a big deal.

OT

I did some testing back in alpha on linear acceleration and turn rate using standard engines for each of the basic ship models.

(please don't resurrect)

/OT

The point is, you can't look at mass as just a number. How it's distributed throughout the ship model affects handling. Rumor has it if the centurion superlight was any lighter it would be impossible to control. The centurions are finely balanced as they are considering their license requirements and availability. The standard line are the first ships you get access to after the EC-88, and are all decent scouts/fighters.

Superlights are already barely worth getting, and in many peoples' opinion not worth getting.

I'm assuming Nahin knows what he's talking about, but I just have to say the SL isn't all that difficult to get once you learn how to do the Corvus Recon mission... and it's worth it if you look at the race stat history.

I don't think reducing their weight by 1000kg would be a huge deal (it's not like many players would ditch their rev c for a 3200kg mk3), but a 500kg reduction might be more reasonable considering it's a base model ship.

I suppose since the Centurion is available before the Vulture, and cheaper, it maybe shouldn't be as good. A reduction of 500kg might be more appropriate, but then there should be a Mk. IV.

I think a one-port IBG or Rev. C would make a good Mk. IV. It's still inferior to the faction versions, but good enough to consider where the faction versions aren't available.

I would personally like to see three new centurion varients: a one-port slightly scaled down IBG/Rev C, a very fast, very light, unarmed and with no cargo transport, and a two-port that's slightly slower than Cent3's, perhaps with less armor as well. All of these cheap, low-license, and widely available without faction requirement.

The biggest problem with the Cent Mk3 is that it's really not worth getting over the Mk2. Same goes for the vulture mk3 versus mk4.

The handling of the ship isn't a good enough improvement over the centurion mk2 to justify the 60/s turbo drain.

Edit: I meant to say turbo drain. Dunno why i thought it was 60m/s that's slower than hell.

Are you kidding, Arf?

More armor, torque, MUCH more thrust, 5m/s more speed, and more are improvements from the Cent2 to Cent3. These four alone make it worth it. The Vulture 4 is overpriced... but still is faster than the Vult3.

The handling of the ship isn't a good enough improvement over the centurion mk2 to justify the 60m/s turbo speed.

Huh?

It was a typo. Fixed now. - Also I think i had the Vult Mk3/Mk4 comparison mixed up with the Cent Mk2/Mk3 comparison. Cent Mk2 sucks.

>Cent3s have absolutely no faction requirement and are available virtually everywhere.

That's not true. You have pretty good standing in order to buy a Cent Mk3 from most factions like Ineubis or Corvus.

Vult4's and Vult3's, I agree. The Vult4 needs more of an advantage to be worth twice the price.