Forums » Suggestions
Sure they do Lecter. In fact they may also be the un-rats when not in monitored space....
But its the emptiness i like :/
+1
I already proposed that earlier
Emptyness is the main problem of all space-based games.
There are multiple possible ways to fix this, but the main is to fill up all unused space with Bots, NPCs, random thing etc.
I already proposed that earlier
Emptyness is the main problem of all space-based games.
There are multiple possible ways to fix this, but the main is to fill up all unused space with Bots, NPCs, random thing etc.
"Emptyness is the main problem of all space-based games."
It's supposed to be like that. Yes we need more things to do, but the emptiness is also important. If you remove the oatmeal from an oatmeal cookie, it is not an oatmeal cookie anymore. Space games need to have space. Packing the empty space full of stuff would necessitate adding new empty space, and more of it than we have now. There should always be at least as much empty space as occupied space.
People who don't want to be in empty areas can just not go there.
It's supposed to be like that. Yes we need more things to do, but the emptiness is also important. If you remove the oatmeal from an oatmeal cookie, it is not an oatmeal cookie anymore. Space games need to have space. Packing the empty space full of stuff would necessitate adding new empty space, and more of it than we have now. There should always be at least as much empty space as occupied space.
People who don't want to be in empty areas can just not go there.
@Pizzasgood
[[[People who don't want to be in empty areas can just not go there.]]]
... and since for now, ALL areas are empty, that completely derails your argument.
And perhaps I wasn't specific enough. What i want is that all "popular" areas of the game get some heavy traffic and be filled up. Of course there should be empty spaces, but surely not around stations. And bot density should be proportionally higher.
This is also very life-like, since billions of people live in Itani/Serco/UIT civilizations, but what we see around is.... few convoys an hour ? LOL, that is just funny.
The space where billions of people live is supposed to be crowded with ships and thriving with life. Also, if there are many ships, bots should also appear in similiar number, otherwise Hive would be quickly overrun by large number of fighters produced by the 3 civilizations - it's completely logical...
[[[People who don't want to be in empty areas can just not go there.]]]
... and since for now, ALL areas are empty, that completely derails your argument.
And perhaps I wasn't specific enough. What i want is that all "popular" areas of the game get some heavy traffic and be filled up. Of course there should be empty spaces, but surely not around stations. And bot density should be proportionally higher.
This is also very life-like, since billions of people live in Itani/Serco/UIT civilizations, but what we see around is.... few convoys an hour ? LOL, that is just funny.
The space where billions of people live is supposed to be crowded with ships and thriving with life. Also, if there are many ships, bots should also appear in similiar number, otherwise Hive would be quickly overrun by large number of fighters produced by the 3 civilizations - it's completely logical...
Ok, arguments taken:
Rethinking OP:
-All the stations, WHs and trade lane* sectors should be filled up with NPCs+BOTs to make them seem busy (=alive).
-Whenever an Ion Storm happens in a trade lane sector it must have hive bots in it, independent of dynamic hive status.
-Sectors outside the trade lanes should be left as is now, empty or hive.
-New traffic should be convoys, NPCs, guards, unrats, hive bots, lone traders, smugglers, hive scarvengers and hunter packs, bounty hunters, military capship convoys from TPG being delivered to every faction, so on.
*"Trade Lanes" are direct routes between WHs and stations. Trade Lane Sectors are any sector crossed by those line, those that would drag a ship into it when having an ion storm.
Rethinking OP:
-All the stations, WHs and trade lane* sectors should be filled up with NPCs+BOTs to make them seem busy (=alive).
-Whenever an Ion Storm happens in a trade lane sector it must have hive bots in it, independent of dynamic hive status.
-Sectors outside the trade lanes should be left as is now, empty or hive.
-New traffic should be convoys, NPCs, guards, unrats, hive bots, lone traders, smugglers, hive scarvengers and hunter packs, bounty hunters, military capship convoys from TPG being delivered to every faction, so on.
*"Trade Lanes" are direct routes between WHs and stations. Trade Lane Sectors are any sector crossed by those line, those that would drag a ship into it when having an ion storm.
Why does every wormhole need to be a traffic jam? I run into NPC convoys pretty often in Itani and UIT space. Heck, just yesterday 2 big Tunguska convoys ran through the Serco blockade in Edras. There was at least 50 ships in the sector, 4 tridents, and turret fire everywhere cause i got them to fight :)
"fill up all unused space with Bots, NPCs, random thing etc."
Excuse me, I read the above words literally. Perhaps it is foolish of me to think that people mean what they say, but that is the way I am.
"... and since for now, ALL areas are empty, that completely derails your argument."
Now you claim that all sectors are empty. I have to wonder now, what is it that miners mine? Where does the money I blow on Nation War every week come from? What is going on in Deneb that strains ARF's GPU? And what were the seven or so newbies in the training sector the other day when I popped in? A mirage? Perhaps I should watch the news more often, because apparently "empty" has been redefined without my noticing.
As far as increasing traffic goes (with density varying on a regional basis of course), I agree to an extent. However until player population increases significantly from what it is now, I would consider anything more than twice the current level of traffic excessive (other than in capital sectors and perhaps the wormholes of capital systems). If I wanted to be dwarfed by masses of NPCs, I'd step outside into the city around me. At least the sheeple of the world have semi-functional AI, and the immersion in general is far better.
Excuse me, I read the above words literally. Perhaps it is foolish of me to think that people mean what they say, but that is the way I am.
"... and since for now, ALL areas are empty, that completely derails your argument."
Now you claim that all sectors are empty. I have to wonder now, what is it that miners mine? Where does the money I blow on Nation War every week come from? What is going on in Deneb that strains ARF's GPU? And what were the seven or so newbies in the training sector the other day when I popped in? A mirage? Perhaps I should watch the news more often, because apparently "empty" has been redefined without my noticing.
As far as increasing traffic goes (with density varying on a regional basis of course), I agree to an extent. However until player population increases significantly from what it is now, I would consider anything more than twice the current level of traffic excessive (other than in capital sectors and perhaps the wormholes of capital systems). If I wanted to be dwarfed by masses of NPCs, I'd step outside into the city around me. At least the sheeple of the world have semi-functional AI, and the immersion in general is far better.
@Pizzasgood
[[[Now you claim that all sectors are empty. (...) blah etc]]]
Well of course i didn't mean that they are COMPLETELY, LITERTALLY empty - that was a fully intentional overstatement. But yes, the current state of Vendetta can be called "emptyness".
The number of ships that is out there comparing to number of ships that SHOULD be out there judging from the game's backstory is just laughable.
Also, read my original argument from ""Eleminate the "space boredom"" thread:
{{{I would like to propose something that would (in my opinion) fix the main of Vendetta's problems, which torments all of space-based simulation games.
I think that the reasons for which Vendetta (and all of space-based simulation games) is not so intensively addictive as other MMO's such as World of Warcraft or Silkroad Online are as follows:
a) Reason I (all space-based simulation games): Space is empty. Space is boring. There's mostly nothing in space, so it does not feed the senses and the mind with data as You travel/fight/trade/mine, so the senses become bored.
1. Sollution (I) - Very easy to implement.
- Inform the players where something "is happening". Make the systems in which most of people are blink, pulse, wave or something on the map. This will close players together, as they will know where most people is and come to play with them ;). I often happen to notice that people don't know if there is anybody in the game, so they ask on the chat. That is because the space has this kinda "emptynees-feeling" which makes one wonder if there is anybody there while there is no activity on chat.
2. Sollution (II) - Difficult to implement:
The sollution from non-space MMO's: Make space actually less empty, fill most of space with bots. Let the player be attacked by (even weak) bots almost everywhere he goes. This will also make trading and every other player activity more challenging & more interesting. Just look at WOW. When You play WOW or Silkroad Online (and MMO's like it), you are constantly attacked by everything just once You get out of Your safe haven (city/town).
Details:
A) Multiply the number of convoys by 50 times (so there is CONSTANT MOVEMENT everywhere). The stations should actually LOOK as REAL space stations with REALLY HEAVY TRAFFIC. Several ships per second should enter and exit the station.
B) Create bot-NPC pirates. (has been suggested before)
C) Make hive bots constantly attack all stations (even in the protected space). All stations should be constantly attacked by the hive. The stations in Itani/UIT/Serco space will be protected effectively though, so no bots will get near the station (they will be destroyed by turrets long before they get there). But the stations in grey space will not have enough protection, so players will need to fight or escape bots just to enter/leave the station.
D) To give the brain even more nourishment, everything should be constantly changed at random. Part of the roid fields could be moving in-and-out of the sector (as the real roids do). That would also create new mining opportunities by the way. Perhaps the stations should move and change position veeeeeeeeery slowly.}}}
[[[Now you claim that all sectors are empty. (...) blah etc]]]
Well of course i didn't mean that they are COMPLETELY, LITERTALLY empty - that was a fully intentional overstatement. But yes, the current state of Vendetta can be called "emptyness".
The number of ships that is out there comparing to number of ships that SHOULD be out there judging from the game's backstory is just laughable.
Also, read my original argument from ""Eleminate the "space boredom"" thread:
{{{I would like to propose something that would (in my opinion) fix the main of Vendetta's problems, which torments all of space-based simulation games.
I think that the reasons for which Vendetta (and all of space-based simulation games) is not so intensively addictive as other MMO's such as World of Warcraft or Silkroad Online are as follows:
a) Reason I (all space-based simulation games): Space is empty. Space is boring. There's mostly nothing in space, so it does not feed the senses and the mind with data as You travel/fight/trade/mine, so the senses become bored.
1. Sollution (I) - Very easy to implement.
- Inform the players where something "is happening". Make the systems in which most of people are blink, pulse, wave or something on the map. This will close players together, as they will know where most people is and come to play with them ;). I often happen to notice that people don't know if there is anybody in the game, so they ask on the chat. That is because the space has this kinda "emptynees-feeling" which makes one wonder if there is anybody there while there is no activity on chat.
2. Sollution (II) - Difficult to implement:
The sollution from non-space MMO's: Make space actually less empty, fill most of space with bots. Let the player be attacked by (even weak) bots almost everywhere he goes. This will also make trading and every other player activity more challenging & more interesting. Just look at WOW. When You play WOW or Silkroad Online (and MMO's like it), you are constantly attacked by everything just once You get out of Your safe haven (city/town).
Details:
A) Multiply the number of convoys by 50 times (so there is CONSTANT MOVEMENT everywhere). The stations should actually LOOK as REAL space stations with REALLY HEAVY TRAFFIC. Several ships per second should enter and exit the station.
B) Create bot-NPC pirates. (has been suggested before)
C) Make hive bots constantly attack all stations (even in the protected space). All stations should be constantly attacked by the hive. The stations in Itani/UIT/Serco space will be protected effectively though, so no bots will get near the station (they will be destroyed by turrets long before they get there). But the stations in grey space will not have enough protection, so players will need to fight or escape bots just to enter/leave the station.
D) To give the brain even more nourishment, everything should be constantly changed at random. Part of the roid fields could be moving in-and-out of the sector (as the real roids do). That would also create new mining opportunities by the way. Perhaps the stations should move and change position veeeeeeeeery slowly.}}}
"Several ships per second should enter and exit the station."
so you want between 180 to 360 ships to enter and exit stations every minute? Seems a little ridiculous.
so you want between 180 to 360 ships to enter and exit stations every minute? Seems a little ridiculous.
@ryan
Well, you have a point - for now the stations are too small for that.
But in reality, surely that would be the case in civilizations having billions of citizens.
However, nobody is saying that there should be so heavy traffic in the initial implementation. Let's start from smaller things and move to bigger things.
The general conception is that there should be constant movement on every station out there.
Well, you have a point - for now the stations are too small for that.
But in reality, surely that would be the case in civilizations having billions of citizens.
However, nobody is saying that there should be so heavy traffic in the initial implementation. Let's start from smaller things and move to bigger things.
The general conception is that there should be constant movement on every station out there.
I hope you aren't trying to say you do want to see realistic levels of traffic eventually, because that will simply never happen. Imagine all the traffic between Atlanta and New York travelling through the Sol-II wormholes constantly. The sky would be constantly glowing. :)
"that was a fully intentional overstatement."
Making overstatements isn't a good technique for improving credibility and clarity of communication. Saying what you actually mean is usually more productive. Otherwise idiots like me drag you into dumb arguments about semantics. :)
"that was a fully intentional overstatement."
Making overstatements isn't a good technique for improving credibility and clarity of communication. Saying what you actually mean is usually more productive. Otherwise idiots like me drag you into dumb arguments about semantics. :)
@Pizzasgood
[[[I hope you aren't trying to say you do want to see realistic levels of traffic eventually, because that will simply never happen. Imagine all the traffic between Atlanta and New York travelling through the Sol-II wormholes constantly. The sky would be constantly glowing. :)]]]
OK, so the sky would be glowing.
So ? What is the problem with that ?
At least people will feel that something is actually happeining out there, instead of seeing emptyness.
.
.
[[[Making overstatements isn't a good technique for improving credibility and clarity of communication. Saying what you actually mean is usually more productive.]]]
Well, that is just kind of a rhetorical figure.
Sometimes works, sometimes it doesn't. Seemingly it doesn't on this forum.
[[[I hope you aren't trying to say you do want to see realistic levels of traffic eventually, because that will simply never happen. Imagine all the traffic between Atlanta and New York travelling through the Sol-II wormholes constantly. The sky would be constantly glowing. :)]]]
OK, so the sky would be glowing.
So ? What is the problem with that ?
At least people will feel that something is actually happeining out there, instead of seeing emptyness.
.
.
[[[Making overstatements isn't a good technique for improving credibility and clarity of communication. Saying what you actually mean is usually more productive.]]]
Well, that is just kind of a rhetorical figure.
Sometimes works, sometimes it doesn't. Seemingly it doesn't on this forum.
Some random galaxy traffic would not be a bad thing. Jumpgate EVO had a rather dynamic system in the works that could easily apply here.
The glowing sky comment was a comment. My point was the volume of the traffic. You really believe that having thousands of ships per minute pass through a wormhole is a good thing? Consider the number of wormholes in the universe and the total amount of traffic. It would be a horrible strain on the server(s). It would also render any dynamic player-influenced economy moot, because amongst that volume of NPCs the human players would be insignificant, unless they are just ghost ships that don't actually influence anything (which is even more silly than having an inaccurate volume of traffic in the first place). Player-run blockades would be nigh impossible unless they singled out only human players, and event then it would be like trying to play dodgeball on the interstate.
Like I said, if I want to be insignificant, I'll play Outside rather than VO.
"Well, that is just kind of a rhetorical figure."
I do not feel I should need to provide empirical evidence that saying what you mean rather than intentionally distorting the truth is more effective at clear communication and credibility. Apply your so called logic and think about it for a bit.
Like I said, if I want to be insignificant, I'll play Outside rather than VO.
"Well, that is just kind of a rhetorical figure."
I do not feel I should need to provide empirical evidence that saying what you mean rather than intentionally distorting the truth is more effective at clear communication and credibility. Apply your so called logic and think about it for a bit.
+1 to more NPCs of different factions, with different cargo, bountyhunters, pirates, etc, especially in gray space.