Forums » Suggestions
Arolte, I'm very confused about the way you use the term "Rocket Rammer". As I have understood a "Rocket Rammer" is somebody who would go within the splash radius of the rockets and fire until one of the two(or three or four) pilots are killed. From what you write, I get the idea that your version of the "Rocket Rammer" is a person who just equips rockets. I know this is not the case, and I feel you are biased against rocket users in general, and think that you should able to own them just because you feel you are right. Now, to address your "list" of reason why you think weapons are bad for chasing:
>>geminis,
>These are useless when chasing someone. They have a limited >speed, and anyone who has used 'em knows they'll fall behind >the second you fire 'em during boost. Useless.
NOT TRUE, I have used geminis effectively during chases, especially when using a more massive ship. Geminis most often promote confusion, panic, and a general drop in piloting skills. Those beeps that geminis make when they are locked on are probably one of the main reasons this is such a useful weapon. As well, some of the pilots seem to not care about the fact that geminis do, contrary to popular belief, hurt like a b*tch, and they ignore them until they hit the offending pilot.
>>sunflares,
>The weapon of the rocket rammer. You're complaining about easy >kills with energy weapons during chases, and yet this weapon >has a proximity detonator with nearly twice the damage. This is >more fair how? Because of ammo? All it takes is like 2-4 >grouped rockets to bring someone down.
First off, what you are doing, increasing the power of weapons to match the OBVIOUSLY unbalanced sunflare, is a start in the right direction, BUT you are attempting to radically change the gameplay in the process. One of the main disadvantages of the sunfare is that it has ammo, but its advantages for the usage overwiegh the disadvatages by a ton, Just decrease the ammo, mabye 8, mabye 6, Don't tell the devs that they should give you a second battery, heat meter, or whatever so that you personally can kill "Rocket Users" without having to use rockets yourself.
>>jackhammers, screamers, swarms, stingrays, yellowjacket,
>These are all L-port weapons. I don't know about you but I >don't go chasing my enemies off in a Ragnarok or Prometheus. >The Warthog is alright for those purposes I guess, but the same >argument of sunflares still holds true with these weapons as >well. I also believe some of these rockets take up energy, >which is the problem we're trying to address here to begin >with. And again, the swarms and any other guided missile in >this class is useless because of its limited speed.
Please refer to my arguments about flares and gemmies, they applie here as well.
>>rail
>Yet another weapon that takes up energy and causes you to stop >dead in your tracks during a chase. I have no idea why you >chose this one as a chaser's weapon.
The rail is meant to be a snipers weapon, and as a second point, it was nerfed becase of yours and others incessant whining that it was too strong, if you dont remember, the rail used to be the chaser's weapon of choice.
>Got any more?
>When compared to sunflares, it's not only harder to aim energy >weapons but you're also required to land more shots to kill >them. Wouldn't you consider this skillful and tough? Why should >a player be punished for having skill?
1: the first sentence of that is flamebait.
2: Yes, Arolte, why *should* you punish players for having skill. Because they have more than you? Either way, the Sunflare takes a great deal of skill to be used in a chase against apilot who knows what yellow dots are and is alert enouh to move out of the way. I have been using flares, NOT "rocket ramming", recently, and I have found that if the pilot you are chasing has half a bucket of nails up in his/her head at least, it is challenging to kill somebody when chasing them. Your problem seems to lie in the fact that you don't like to have to change your course so that rockets don't crawl up into your engine, keep an eye on your radar, thats what its there for.
>Valk
>Centurion
>Vulture
>Warthog
>
>-efficient weapon battery
>
>Marauder
>Hornet
>Atlas
>Wraith
>
>-medium weapon battery
>
>Prometheus
>Ragnarok
>Centaur
>
>-heavy weapon battery
>
>What this does is it lowers the time you're allowed to fire >your weapons during boost for very fast fighters, thus making >chases longer and enabling the target to survive more easily. >As for bombers, the heavy weapon battery allows them to fire >for a long period of time for defensive purposes, and since >they're very bad at chasing someone down due to acceleration >you won't have to worry about them getting easy chase kills.
It seems to me that you are attempting to add on gimmicks to make your proposal less powerful, and you seem to not be picturing yourself in each of these ships being chased by every weapon combo that is used today, or ever has been, or will be used. I will quote myself here: "And without proposing new gimmicks to change them, try to change the idea itself." Now, Arolte, the idea that Camps came up earlier in the thread, capacitors: they sound like small batteries you can *store* power in by charging them up, to be used at a later time, possibly you would have to stick it in the weapons port, THAT is what I meant by changing the idea, instead of assing gimmicks to your old one.
>>geminis,
>These are useless when chasing someone. They have a limited >speed, and anyone who has used 'em knows they'll fall behind >the second you fire 'em during boost. Useless.
NOT TRUE, I have used geminis effectively during chases, especially when using a more massive ship. Geminis most often promote confusion, panic, and a general drop in piloting skills. Those beeps that geminis make when they are locked on are probably one of the main reasons this is such a useful weapon. As well, some of the pilots seem to not care about the fact that geminis do, contrary to popular belief, hurt like a b*tch, and they ignore them until they hit the offending pilot.
>>sunflares,
>The weapon of the rocket rammer. You're complaining about easy >kills with energy weapons during chases, and yet this weapon >has a proximity detonator with nearly twice the damage. This is >more fair how? Because of ammo? All it takes is like 2-4 >grouped rockets to bring someone down.
First off, what you are doing, increasing the power of weapons to match the OBVIOUSLY unbalanced sunflare, is a start in the right direction, BUT you are attempting to radically change the gameplay in the process. One of the main disadvantages of the sunfare is that it has ammo, but its advantages for the usage overwiegh the disadvatages by a ton, Just decrease the ammo, mabye 8, mabye 6, Don't tell the devs that they should give you a second battery, heat meter, or whatever so that you personally can kill "Rocket Users" without having to use rockets yourself.
>>jackhammers, screamers, swarms, stingrays, yellowjacket,
>These are all L-port weapons. I don't know about you but I >don't go chasing my enemies off in a Ragnarok or Prometheus. >The Warthog is alright for those purposes I guess, but the same >argument of sunflares still holds true with these weapons as >well. I also believe some of these rockets take up energy, >which is the problem we're trying to address here to begin >with. And again, the swarms and any other guided missile in >this class is useless because of its limited speed.
Please refer to my arguments about flares and gemmies, they applie here as well.
>>rail
>Yet another weapon that takes up energy and causes you to stop >dead in your tracks during a chase. I have no idea why you >chose this one as a chaser's weapon.
The rail is meant to be a snipers weapon, and as a second point, it was nerfed becase of yours and others incessant whining that it was too strong, if you dont remember, the rail used to be the chaser's weapon of choice.
>Got any more?
>When compared to sunflares, it's not only harder to aim energy >weapons but you're also required to land more shots to kill >them. Wouldn't you consider this skillful and tough? Why should >a player be punished for having skill?
1: the first sentence of that is flamebait.
2: Yes, Arolte, why *should* you punish players for having skill. Because they have more than you? Either way, the Sunflare takes a great deal of skill to be used in a chase against apilot who knows what yellow dots are and is alert enouh to move out of the way. I have been using flares, NOT "rocket ramming", recently, and I have found that if the pilot you are chasing has half a bucket of nails up in his/her head at least, it is challenging to kill somebody when chasing them. Your problem seems to lie in the fact that you don't like to have to change your course so that rockets don't crawl up into your engine, keep an eye on your radar, thats what its there for.
>Valk
>Centurion
>Vulture
>Warthog
>
>-efficient weapon battery
>
>Marauder
>Hornet
>Atlas
>Wraith
>
>-medium weapon battery
>
>Prometheus
>Ragnarok
>Centaur
>
>-heavy weapon battery
>
>What this does is it lowers the time you're allowed to fire >your weapons during boost for very fast fighters, thus making >chases longer and enabling the target to survive more easily. >As for bombers, the heavy weapon battery allows them to fire >for a long period of time for defensive purposes, and since >they're very bad at chasing someone down due to acceleration >you won't have to worry about them getting easy chase kills.
It seems to me that you are attempting to add on gimmicks to make your proposal less powerful, and you seem to not be picturing yourself in each of these ships being chased by every weapon combo that is used today, or ever has been, or will be used. I will quote myself here: "And without proposing new gimmicks to change them, try to change the idea itself." Now, Arolte, the idea that Camps came up earlier in the thread, capacitors: they sound like small batteries you can *store* power in by charging them up, to be used at a later time, possibly you would have to stick it in the weapons port, THAT is what I meant by changing the idea, instead of assing gimmicks to your old one.
>NOT TRUE, I have used geminis effectively during chases, especially
>when using a more massive ship. Geminis most often promote
>confusion, panic, and a general drop in piloting skills. Those beeps
>that geminis make when they are locked on are probably one of the
>main reasons this is such a useful weapon. As well, some of the pilots
>seem to not care about the fact that geminis do, contrary to popular
>belief, hurt like a b*tch, and they ignore them until they hit the offending
>pilot.
I am well aware of the confusion geminis create, which is why I use 'em a lot in the Warthog. HOWEVER, if someone is boosting from point A to point B and you're behind them while you fire those geminis, there is absolutely no way those geminis will catch up to the target unless he/she slows down, which sorta doesn't make it a chase anymore (duh). Geminis have a limited speed, which makes them ineffective during chased. Period.
>One of the main disadvantages of the sunfare is that it has ammo, but
>its advantages for the usage overwiegh the disadvatages by a ton, Just
>decrease the ammo, mabye 8, mabye 6, Don't tell the devs that they
>should give you a second battery, heat meter, or whatever so that you
>personally can kill "Rocket Users" without having to use rockets
>yourself.
It ISN'T meant to kill rocket users (or the term I like to use, "rocket rammers"). It's meant to allow energy weapon users to pursue its target during a chase and with some chance of actually harming their target. Why some of you are objecting this is beyond me. Where does it say that rockets are the only weapon that are supposed to be used for chases?
If you haven't noticed by now, rockets vary in a number of ways besides ammo and zero energy consumption. They have a proximity detonator and they inflict a ton of damage. That's what primarily sets them apart from energy weapons, NOT ammo. Ammo isn't even an issue, considering the fact that two or three grouped sunflares is enough to kill a target. It's more of a minor inconvenience.
>The rail is meant to be a snipers weapon, and as a second point, it was
>nerfed becase of yours and others incessant whining that it was too
>strong, if you dont remember, the rail used to be the chaser's weapon
>of choice.
Ahhh, now you're makin' up stuff. My incessant whining? As I recall I was one of the few during 3.2.0 who used a quad-railgun Hornet to get cheap insta-kills. Nevertheless, the keyword here is "used", when clearly Renegade was listing the current line of weapons for chasers. So you're going off on a tangent here that makes the discussion completely irrelevant.
>Your problem seems to lie in the fact that you don't like to have to
>change your course so that rockets don't crawl up into your engine,
>keep an eye on your radar, thats what its there for.
This one cracks me up. Scroll up and tell me again that I don't like to "change my course." I SUGGESTED that people should be required to change course (aka "zig-zag") during a chase to avoid enemy fire. And guess what, I DO change course during a chase to avoid rockets. I don't need any lecturing on the topic, so please keep it to yourself.
>It seems to me that you are attempting to add on gimmicks to make
>your proposal less powerful, and you seem to not be picturing yourself
>in each of these ships being chased by every weapon combo that is
>used today, or ever has been, or will be used.
Not picturing? Humpy, you're really gettin' on my nerves here. Nobody just randomly makes proposals on a forum without thinking about it or picturing it in their head. This is just plain ignorance.
I simply revised my proposal so that heat was replaced by a second battery pack for weapons only. And if you read the paragraph right below my little list of ships, you'll see the reason behind those further changes. I have to ask why you seem to dodge questioning those explanations, and instead just automatically label them as gimmicks. If you have objections, I want to see WHY, which is why I said I was willing to compromise. I'm NOT trying to screw anyone over. If you can't get over that mentality then this discussion might as well just stop. I want to find similar interests that would work for both of us, not to get into some bigass flamewar.
>when using a more massive ship. Geminis most often promote
>confusion, panic, and a general drop in piloting skills. Those beeps
>that geminis make when they are locked on are probably one of the
>main reasons this is such a useful weapon. As well, some of the pilots
>seem to not care about the fact that geminis do, contrary to popular
>belief, hurt like a b*tch, and they ignore them until they hit the offending
>pilot.
I am well aware of the confusion geminis create, which is why I use 'em a lot in the Warthog. HOWEVER, if someone is boosting from point A to point B and you're behind them while you fire those geminis, there is absolutely no way those geminis will catch up to the target unless he/she slows down, which sorta doesn't make it a chase anymore (duh). Geminis have a limited speed, which makes them ineffective during chased. Period.
>One of the main disadvantages of the sunfare is that it has ammo, but
>its advantages for the usage overwiegh the disadvatages by a ton, Just
>decrease the ammo, mabye 8, mabye 6, Don't tell the devs that they
>should give you a second battery, heat meter, or whatever so that you
>personally can kill "Rocket Users" without having to use rockets
>yourself.
It ISN'T meant to kill rocket users (or the term I like to use, "rocket rammers"). It's meant to allow energy weapon users to pursue its target during a chase and with some chance of actually harming their target. Why some of you are objecting this is beyond me. Where does it say that rockets are the only weapon that are supposed to be used for chases?
If you haven't noticed by now, rockets vary in a number of ways besides ammo and zero energy consumption. They have a proximity detonator and they inflict a ton of damage. That's what primarily sets them apart from energy weapons, NOT ammo. Ammo isn't even an issue, considering the fact that two or three grouped sunflares is enough to kill a target. It's more of a minor inconvenience.
>The rail is meant to be a snipers weapon, and as a second point, it was
>nerfed becase of yours and others incessant whining that it was too
>strong, if you dont remember, the rail used to be the chaser's weapon
>of choice.
Ahhh, now you're makin' up stuff. My incessant whining? As I recall I was one of the few during 3.2.0 who used a quad-railgun Hornet to get cheap insta-kills. Nevertheless, the keyword here is "used", when clearly Renegade was listing the current line of weapons for chasers. So you're going off on a tangent here that makes the discussion completely irrelevant.
>Your problem seems to lie in the fact that you don't like to have to
>change your course so that rockets don't crawl up into your engine,
>keep an eye on your radar, thats what its there for.
This one cracks me up. Scroll up and tell me again that I don't like to "change my course." I SUGGESTED that people should be required to change course (aka "zig-zag") during a chase to avoid enemy fire. And guess what, I DO change course during a chase to avoid rockets. I don't need any lecturing on the topic, so please keep it to yourself.
>It seems to me that you are attempting to add on gimmicks to make
>your proposal less powerful, and you seem to not be picturing yourself
>in each of these ships being chased by every weapon combo that is
>used today, or ever has been, or will be used.
Not picturing? Humpy, you're really gettin' on my nerves here. Nobody just randomly makes proposals on a forum without thinking about it or picturing it in their head. This is just plain ignorance.
I simply revised my proposal so that heat was replaced by a second battery pack for weapons only. And if you read the paragraph right below my little list of ships, you'll see the reason behind those further changes. I have to ask why you seem to dodge questioning those explanations, and instead just automatically label them as gimmicks. If you have objections, I want to see WHY, which is why I said I was willing to compromise. I'm NOT trying to screw anyone over. If you can't get over that mentality then this discussion might as well just stop. I want to find similar interests that would work for both of us, not to get into some bigass flamewar.
what started out as a suggestion to make energy weapons a bit more effective and mainstream is starting to degenerate into a bitchfest.
arolte, not to offend you or anything, your definition of the term "rocket rammer" is aimed a little wide. a rocket rammer is someone on a collision course who fires rockets at point blank range and gets caught in the splash. a "rocket user" is someone who uses rockets.
arolte, not to offend you or anything, your definition of the term "rocket rammer" is aimed a little wide. a rocket rammer is someone on a collision course who fires rockets at point blank range and gets caught in the splash. a "rocket user" is someone who uses rockets.
err what beeps for the geminis :P
/me has no sound.
/me has no sound.
The reason why I al against it is that you dont need to adjust everything else just to compensate for the unbalancing rockets, but just change the rockets so they will be balanced.
Why do 20 times the work if you can make it with only 0.5 times the work ?
Now on account of the rail, I never liked a sniper weapon, and I nevr will. But I just listed it as being complete. dont forget a rail has more ammo and is a lot faster then the suunflare. If you didnt let it eat your battery then you would have the perfect snipers weapon and nobody "yes nobody" would be able to escape it. Just remember the first rail. It was so overpowering that everybody used it and that it made everybody paranoid if even somebody looked at you funny from 1000m away.
And the geminis are excellent for overtaking the pray and then shooting a couple so he holds to avoide them so you can pepper him down with some energyshots. Naturally it isnt perfect. But it will be enough. And the only time when the so called rocket users can kill me with rockets is :
a) when I dock
b) when I am unaware
c) when I stay to fight
Now for point a, that will get solved with the no fire zone.
For point b, that is my own fault. I have to watch my surroundings more closely, it is and stays a semi FPS.
And as last point, point c, my fault also, if I had run, I wouldnt get hit. Because if you are boosting at 160m/s or in a medium a sustained 167m/s "with the use of boosttapping, and yes it is still doable", then it is very hard to hit somebody. Especially when 1 of these people is zigzagging.
And lo and behold, the medium engine perfectly makes this possible. because you can boosttab, and between tabs steer yourselve at the appropiate direction.
then for the large port weapons. I would rather chase a centaur down in a warthog, or a wraith. And even with 1 salvo it has the ability of being as deadly as a tripple sunnie "only a lesser prox damage, only 30 in stead of the 45 of a tripple sunnie".
Now, you can chase people down with energyweapons, the only downfall is that you need to be able to accelerate faster then the other guy. and if your oponent is in a valk, then you can forget about htat. but this is also the same for a prom - prom. If one of the 2 runs, then he is able to escape with no real problem. It only has effect when you are able to catch up with him. Now if you want to chase down an oponent with an energyweapon, then you need to overtake him before shooting, just so you spook them and they get their gas away from the pedals. then you pepper him some more, if he contineous running, start the routine again. If you werent able to kill him, bad luck then, you had to pay a prioce to have an infinite ammoadvantag eover the rocket.
And I am complaining about the rockets, they need to be tuned down a little. But that is outside of this thread, this thread was created for the purpose of finding a solution to take people out even more easilly. And you needed to completely revamp the gameplay for that. What takes even more time and will only delay missions and all even more. What is something that I dont want. And no any of these large port rockets dont use energy. The nuke was the one that used to take energy, but doesnt anymore
cheers
Why do 20 times the work if you can make it with only 0.5 times the work ?
Now on account of the rail, I never liked a sniper weapon, and I nevr will. But I just listed it as being complete. dont forget a rail has more ammo and is a lot faster then the suunflare. If you didnt let it eat your battery then you would have the perfect snipers weapon and nobody "yes nobody" would be able to escape it. Just remember the first rail. It was so overpowering that everybody used it and that it made everybody paranoid if even somebody looked at you funny from 1000m away.
And the geminis are excellent for overtaking the pray and then shooting a couple so he holds to avoide them so you can pepper him down with some energyshots. Naturally it isnt perfect. But it will be enough. And the only time when the so called rocket users can kill me with rockets is :
a) when I dock
b) when I am unaware
c) when I stay to fight
Now for point a, that will get solved with the no fire zone.
For point b, that is my own fault. I have to watch my surroundings more closely, it is and stays a semi FPS.
And as last point, point c, my fault also, if I had run, I wouldnt get hit. Because if you are boosting at 160m/s or in a medium a sustained 167m/s "with the use of boosttapping, and yes it is still doable", then it is very hard to hit somebody. Especially when 1 of these people is zigzagging.
And lo and behold, the medium engine perfectly makes this possible. because you can boosttab, and between tabs steer yourselve at the appropiate direction.
then for the large port weapons. I would rather chase a centaur down in a warthog, or a wraith. And even with 1 salvo it has the ability of being as deadly as a tripple sunnie "only a lesser prox damage, only 30 in stead of the 45 of a tripple sunnie".
Now, you can chase people down with energyweapons, the only downfall is that you need to be able to accelerate faster then the other guy. and if your oponent is in a valk, then you can forget about htat. but this is also the same for a prom - prom. If one of the 2 runs, then he is able to escape with no real problem. It only has effect when you are able to catch up with him. Now if you want to chase down an oponent with an energyweapon, then you need to overtake him before shooting, just so you spook them and they get their gas away from the pedals. then you pepper him some more, if he contineous running, start the routine again. If you werent able to kill him, bad luck then, you had to pay a prioce to have an infinite ammoadvantag eover the rocket.
And I am complaining about the rockets, they need to be tuned down a little. But that is outside of this thread, this thread was created for the purpose of finding a solution to take people out even more easilly. And you needed to completely revamp the gameplay for that. What takes even more time and will only delay missions and all even more. What is something that I dont want. And no any of these large port rockets dont use energy. The nuke was the one that used to take energy, but doesnt anymore
cheers
Actually, the avalon does take energy. So do the screamers.
mmhh, I thought that the screamers didnt take energy "I didnt notice running out faster on my double gauss shots", ooh well, they are a lot more damaging and a lot faster then the normall rocket. So all in all not that bad.
cheers
cheers
By forcing yourself to pick a fast ship to "overrun" your enemy before firing energy weapons, you really put a huge limit on the list of available ships for the task of chasing them down. And by forcing yourself to pick rockets as the only weapon to chase someone down, you really put a huge limit on the list of available weapons also. Variety and versatility is key here, and it's something that's lacking from the current version.
Sunflare users (there, I said it) will remain the same regardless of this proposal. The speed of the engines won't change, and the batteries won't change. People will still have their precious Valks to fly around in. People will still have their high proximity sunflares and sixteen rockets or whatever. So in reality a lot of you sunflare users are falsely causing alarm for some type of doomsday. That is most certainly not the case here.
Also, sunflare users right now have the ability to easily escape from a battle unscathed. That needs to stop. There needs to be some incentive for rocket users to equip at least one or two energy weapons for backup. Because the moment they run outta ammo they know they'll be getting shot up the ass with lasers, if this proposal were to be implemented. That's not to say they can't escape. They'll just have a harder time of doing it. I mean heaven forbid people learn how to dodge while trying to boost away.
=)
But ultimately, as I said earlier, I just think Vendetta needs a little more excitement in its style of combat. In all the sci-fi movies I've watched, games I've played, and books I've read, there has never been an instance where space fighters didn't have the capability of chasing down their opponents with laser weapons blazing. Maybe the devs intended Vendetta's fighting style to be more "hand-to-hand", and that's just something I'll have to learn to accept. As a huge sci-fi fan, however, it's certainly a disappointment for me because of all the potential that can be had for a game like this.
=(
Alas, I won't hold anything against the devs until the game is more complete. I'm sure what we have now is nothing close to what they want. It's only fair to wait and see what they truly envisioned the game to be. Or at least something close to it, since no game can really have 100% of its originally intended features.
Sunflare users (there, I said it) will remain the same regardless of this proposal. The speed of the engines won't change, and the batteries won't change. People will still have their precious Valks to fly around in. People will still have their high proximity sunflares and sixteen rockets or whatever. So in reality a lot of you sunflare users are falsely causing alarm for some type of doomsday. That is most certainly not the case here.
Also, sunflare users right now have the ability to easily escape from a battle unscathed. That needs to stop. There needs to be some incentive for rocket users to equip at least one or two energy weapons for backup. Because the moment they run outta ammo they know they'll be getting shot up the ass with lasers, if this proposal were to be implemented. That's not to say they can't escape. They'll just have a harder time of doing it. I mean heaven forbid people learn how to dodge while trying to boost away.
=)
But ultimately, as I said earlier, I just think Vendetta needs a little more excitement in its style of combat. In all the sci-fi movies I've watched, games I've played, and books I've read, there has never been an instance where space fighters didn't have the capability of chasing down their opponents with laser weapons blazing. Maybe the devs intended Vendetta's fighting style to be more "hand-to-hand", and that's just something I'll have to learn to accept. As a huge sci-fi fan, however, it's certainly a disappointment for me because of all the potential that can be had for a game like this.
=(
Alas, I won't hold anything against the devs until the game is more complete. I'm sure what we have now is nothing close to what they want. It's only fair to wait and see what they truly envisioned the game to be. Or at least something close to it, since no game can really have 100% of its originally intended features.
By forcing yourself to pick a fast ship to "overrun" your enemy before firing energy weapons, you really put a huge limit on the list of available ships for the task of chasing them down. And by forcing yourself to pick rockets as the only weapon to chase someone down, you really put a huge limit on the list of available weapons also. Variety and versatility is key here, and it's something that's lacking from the current version.
that is the choice you make when flying a certain ship, do you want to overtake people quickly then take that ship, do you want to be the bigass man then use the prom, do you want to get fast cash use the maud. Exactly what you are protesting against is the vry ezssence of a RPG. If you are a mage, and you see a fighter approaching, you arent going to face him hand to hand but use another of your special advantages.
You can see the mage as the marauder and the fighter as the valk. A marauder has the big advantage of being fast and having 3 slots to shoot things at chasers. Even a tripple gemini can be very annoying for a valk. and if you shoot 3 of them and start running again, he will get annoyed. And you will be able to escape.
Next thing, your everlasting complains about rockets:
They are unbalancing, and yes everybody knows that, but in stead of inventing somethign completely different just adjust the existing thing.
Next the advantage of the valk. With the implementation of the missions, acquiring a special ship wont just be done in a matter of seconds, like it is now. no it will take a series of missions, agreements with the government and more of this nice. If you loose one, your reputation or something in this kind will drop. the price of them will go up. And so on and so on.
Besides, normally pinning someone down with an energy weapon is used by the fast ships. I cant imagine a bomber chasing down a fighter. I can imagine if a fighte comes to close, seeing a bomber pepper that fighter with as much as he can topss and hopiing on a good outcome. Naturally this doesnt mean that a bomber should be a sittig duck, but it does mean that if you want to overtake somebody else, you are going to need a fast ship, or a not so good pilot that makes a lot of mistakes.
cheers
that is the choice you make when flying a certain ship, do you want to overtake people quickly then take that ship, do you want to be the bigass man then use the prom, do you want to get fast cash use the maud. Exactly what you are protesting against is the vry ezssence of a RPG. If you are a mage, and you see a fighter approaching, you arent going to face him hand to hand but use another of your special advantages.
You can see the mage as the marauder and the fighter as the valk. A marauder has the big advantage of being fast and having 3 slots to shoot things at chasers. Even a tripple gemini can be very annoying for a valk. and if you shoot 3 of them and start running again, he will get annoyed. And you will be able to escape.
Next thing, your everlasting complains about rockets:
They are unbalancing, and yes everybody knows that, but in stead of inventing somethign completely different just adjust the existing thing.
Next the advantage of the valk. With the implementation of the missions, acquiring a special ship wont just be done in a matter of seconds, like it is now. no it will take a series of missions, agreements with the government and more of this nice. If you loose one, your reputation or something in this kind will drop. the price of them will go up. And so on and so on.
Besides, normally pinning someone down with an energy weapon is used by the fast ships. I cant imagine a bomber chasing down a fighter. I can imagine if a fighte comes to close, seeing a bomber pepper that fighter with as much as he can topss and hopiing on a good outcome. Naturally this doesnt mean that a bomber should be a sittig duck, but it does mean that if you want to overtake somebody else, you are going to need a fast ship, or a not so good pilot that makes a lot of mistakes.
cheers
How about this? Considering that this is a test, why don't we um, test the idea out?
Give us a weapon, just one that does not drain battery power. Make it really really weak in the neighborhood of 50 dmg per shot, but give it a decent rate of fire like the bus cannon and good auto aim. We will see how it works. We don't have to worry about game balance since it is not only temporary, but a weak weapon anyway. We can try it out, see if it would solve any of the problems we are trying to adress if it were made stronger. Then, if the Devs decide it should be in the game, they can delete the weapon and write in code for heat, or capacitors or whatever. If not, they can dump it, no harm done.
Give us a weapon, just one that does not drain battery power. Make it really really weak in the neighborhood of 50 dmg per shot, but give it a decent rate of fire like the bus cannon and good auto aim. We will see how it works. We don't have to worry about game balance since it is not only temporary, but a weak weapon anyway. We can try it out, see if it would solve any of the problems we are trying to adress if it were made stronger. Then, if the Devs decide it should be in the game, they can delete the weapon and write in code for heat, or capacitors or whatever. If not, they can dump it, no harm done.
Heh, Pavan, I WISH!! I don't even think the devs read the suggestion forum that much anymore. At least I haven't seen many responses from them recently, which is kind of disheartening. So all the effort put into this proposal was probably wasted. But anyway, I think people have to see this to believe it. I'm not very good at explaining these sorta things, but I truly believe a lot of you are overreacting.
Renegade wrote,
>Besides, normally pinning someone down with an energy weapon is
>used by the fast ships. I cant imagine a bomber chasing down a fighter.
>I can imagine if a fighte comes to close, seeing a bomber pepper that
>fighter with as much as he can topss and hopiing on a good outcome.
>Naturally this doesnt mean that a bomber should be a sittig duck, but it
>does mean that if you want to overtake somebody else, you are going
>to need a fast ship, or a not so good pilot that makes a lot of mistakes.
>cheers
Why do I get the feeling that people aren't reading my posts? Renegade, scroll up to where I have the list of ships and how I have them into certain classes in accordance with weapon battery capacity. You'll see that heavy ships will have a heavy weapon battery. What this means is they'll have a very lengthy fire period, which makes sense considering the fact that they need to defend themselves.
However, anyone who has flown a "bomber" knows for a fact that those things take forever to accelerate and take very wide turns. In other words there's absolutely no way for them to even get the chance to "pepper" you in a fighter during a chase (if you can even call it that), as you say. The acceleration is just way too slow for it to ever catch up to a fighter, let alone allow it to properly lead its shots.
Bottom line, your concerns were already covered when I revised my proposal by allowing only certain weapon batteries to be used for certain ship classes. And I repeat, what this means is fighters will have shorter continuous fire, medium gunships will have an average length of continuous fire, and bombers will have longer continuous fire (for defensive purposes). So don't worry, a bomber won't be the same as a fighter during a chase. They'll behave as they're supposed to for their class, especially when you factor in the acceleration of each ship.
The point of giving fighters an efficient weapon battery is to give it more recharge delays. Those recharge delays are to be used to your advantage for dodging purposes. So although a fighter is fast, it won't be firing for as long a time; giving you plenty of time to survive during a chase. That's why the weapon battery of each ship class is going to be limited (perhaps built into each ship when you buy it)
And lastly, this proposal isn't meant to balance rockets. It's meant to improve energy weapons and allow Vendetta to have the space combat chase scenes that we see everyday in our movies. The rockets are untouched. In fact, once this proposal is implemented you'll probably see a greater mix of weapons, with a combo of rockets AND energy weapons.
People are doing fine with rockets right now, so I don't see a reason why they'd be eliminated completely. On the other hand energy weapon users are getting massacred, which should say something. The proposal will NOT make the two the same. Aiming a sunflare and aiming a tachyon are two completely different things with two completely different results. You're NOT killing the characteristics of the rocket by simply allowing an energy beam to travel during boost. And nowhere is it written as a rule that rockets should be the only weapon used for chasers.
Renegade wrote,
>Besides, normally pinning someone down with an energy weapon is
>used by the fast ships. I cant imagine a bomber chasing down a fighter.
>I can imagine if a fighte comes to close, seeing a bomber pepper that
>fighter with as much as he can topss and hopiing on a good outcome.
>Naturally this doesnt mean that a bomber should be a sittig duck, but it
>does mean that if you want to overtake somebody else, you are going
>to need a fast ship, or a not so good pilot that makes a lot of mistakes.
>cheers
Why do I get the feeling that people aren't reading my posts? Renegade, scroll up to where I have the list of ships and how I have them into certain classes in accordance with weapon battery capacity. You'll see that heavy ships will have a heavy weapon battery. What this means is they'll have a very lengthy fire period, which makes sense considering the fact that they need to defend themselves.
However, anyone who has flown a "bomber" knows for a fact that those things take forever to accelerate and take very wide turns. In other words there's absolutely no way for them to even get the chance to "pepper" you in a fighter during a chase (if you can even call it that), as you say. The acceleration is just way too slow for it to ever catch up to a fighter, let alone allow it to properly lead its shots.
Bottom line, your concerns were already covered when I revised my proposal by allowing only certain weapon batteries to be used for certain ship classes. And I repeat, what this means is fighters will have shorter continuous fire, medium gunships will have an average length of continuous fire, and bombers will have longer continuous fire (for defensive purposes). So don't worry, a bomber won't be the same as a fighter during a chase. They'll behave as they're supposed to for their class, especially when you factor in the acceleration of each ship.
The point of giving fighters an efficient weapon battery is to give it more recharge delays. Those recharge delays are to be used to your advantage for dodging purposes. So although a fighter is fast, it won't be firing for as long a time; giving you plenty of time to survive during a chase. That's why the weapon battery of each ship class is going to be limited (perhaps built into each ship when you buy it)
And lastly, this proposal isn't meant to balance rockets. It's meant to improve energy weapons and allow Vendetta to have the space combat chase scenes that we see everyday in our movies. The rockets are untouched. In fact, once this proposal is implemented you'll probably see a greater mix of weapons, with a combo of rockets AND energy weapons.
People are doing fine with rockets right now, so I don't see a reason why they'd be eliminated completely. On the other hand energy weapon users are getting massacred, which should say something. The proposal will NOT make the two the same. Aiming a sunflare and aiming a tachyon are two completely different things with two completely different results. You're NOT killing the characteristics of the rocket by simply allowing an energy beam to travel during boost. And nowhere is it written as a rule that rockets should be the only weapon used for chasers.
But nowhere there is written that it shouldnt be so.
In a prom you have got a lot of chance of peppering someone down. Same for a wraith. the tactic of a heavy is : dump and shoot.
Ow and I did take out valks and vults with a heavy. I even took out x together with duck in my prom. Without using rockets. I have to say, they were only flying vults, but still my duel gausses did hurt them. Not to mention them flying into each other :D. So dont start about no mixing of weapons. I use a lot of different weapons, but according to each ship, I have a favorite.
I didnt want to go in on that new point of your arolte, because it meant a total revamp of everything. As well batteries, ships as energy weapons.
Why cant you simply understand that adapting everything to unbalancing sunflares is just plain out crazy if you can balance it by just adjusting the sunflare. Besides, Im pretty sure, that after your idea has been incorperated, we will all be yelling for more hp.
And like I argumented in my previous post, a bomber isnt supposed to outrun a light ship. But vice versa it should be.
Arolte, a big advantage of the rocket is that it can be shot without strain on your battery. To counter for it being unguided, it has a higher prox and damage. But to counter for it to have no strain on the battery, it is ammobased.
cheers
In a prom you have got a lot of chance of peppering someone down. Same for a wraith. the tactic of a heavy is : dump and shoot.
Ow and I did take out valks and vults with a heavy. I even took out x together with duck in my prom. Without using rockets. I have to say, they were only flying vults, but still my duel gausses did hurt them. Not to mention them flying into each other :D. So dont start about no mixing of weapons. I use a lot of different weapons, but according to each ship, I have a favorite.
I didnt want to go in on that new point of your arolte, because it meant a total revamp of everything. As well batteries, ships as energy weapons.
Why cant you simply understand that adapting everything to unbalancing sunflares is just plain out crazy if you can balance it by just adjusting the sunflare. Besides, Im pretty sure, that after your idea has been incorperated, we will all be yelling for more hp.
And like I argumented in my previous post, a bomber isnt supposed to outrun a light ship. But vice versa it should be.
Arolte, a big advantage of the rocket is that it can be shot without strain on your battery. To counter for it being unguided, it has a higher prox and damage. But to counter for it to have no strain on the battery, it is ammobased.
cheers
Do you think that it would in fact be real easy to aim energy weapons while you're chasing someone? Every time you make a slight turn to make a correction for your aiming, the target gains distance. And unless you're straight behind your target, you'll need to constantly make those corrections, making your shots miss every time. I still don't think you understand how hard it is to hit someone with energy weapons (non-gauss of course) while they're boosting away. It's not as easy as you think. In other words we probably won't be seeing as many kills as you think we might regardless of whether this proposal is implemented or not.
I do know how hard it is.
I only dont want to see a total revamp at this time for something as small as that. Maybe if the devs have some more time, they could think about it, but at the moment they have more then enough on their plate already.
But still, in my opinion if you did do this change then you made the difference between a rocket and an energyweapon again a little bit smaller.
cheers
I only dont want to see a total revamp at this time for something as small as that. Maybe if the devs have some more time, they could think about it, but at the moment they have more then enough on their plate already.
But still, in my opinion if you did do this change then you made the difference between a rocket and an energyweapon again a little bit smaller.
cheers
Trust me, it is hard. Try arming Tachyon on a cent and get an efficient/Heavy. Then try chasing someone. It will be quite difficult if the know how to dodge.
Most people just have to let go of the mentatility that hitting a single boost key would get you to safety. Survival should be based on more than that. Of course you can keep your distance and completely avoid the enemy (for those who choose to play more peacefully). But if you're going to engage your target and all of a sudden you decide to escape, people need to take it a step further and learn how to dodge, regardless of whether sunflares or whatever are being shot at you.
The truth of it is is that some people ARE already learning how to, especially with all the Valk sunflare users around now. And let me tell you it's even more tough on the escaper to dodge rockets than lasers. As for the chaser, without those proximity detonators it'll be ten times harder for a tachyon or graviton user to hit their escaping target--and you also have to remember that you have to hit that target MORE to get the same amount of damage per rocket.
So really, I think this proposal does more for the balance of gameplay than to simply change or weaken the sunflares. It will in fact change the gameplay itself to some degree. But you have to remember that regardless of whether you like change or not, this is after all a TEST game that will be going under A LOT of changes throughout the months. We're all going to hate losing parts of the earlier versions, but I think in the long run we're going to be more surprised with all the newer stuff that'll be coming out.
I don't want to sound like this has already been approved or anything, since I'm pretty sure this proposal has already been rejected in the devs' minds, but for what it's worth if there was anything more I could ever wish for Vendetta this would be it.
=(
The truth of it is is that some people ARE already learning how to, especially with all the Valk sunflare users around now. And let me tell you it's even more tough on the escaper to dodge rockets than lasers. As for the chaser, without those proximity detonators it'll be ten times harder for a tachyon or graviton user to hit their escaping target--and you also have to remember that you have to hit that target MORE to get the same amount of damage per rocket.
So really, I think this proposal does more for the balance of gameplay than to simply change or weaken the sunflares. It will in fact change the gameplay itself to some degree. But you have to remember that regardless of whether you like change or not, this is after all a TEST game that will be going under A LOT of changes throughout the months. We're all going to hate losing parts of the earlier versions, but I think in the long run we're going to be more surprised with all the newer stuff that'll be coming out.
I don't want to sound like this has already been approved or anything, since I'm pretty sure this proposal has already been rejected in the devs' minds, but for what it's worth if there was anything more I could ever wish for Vendetta this would be it.
=(
Like I stated.
Idd prefer the easy way out and let the devs get ready with the missions and all faster then divert their attention to this :D
cheers
Idd prefer the easy way out and let the devs get ready with the missions and all faster then divert their attention to this :D
cheers
No :D
So are we not allowed to debate?
And now it's a little bit longer. Thanks to you.