Forums » Suggestions
RFC: How to FIX Faction System?
This is new for me, and maybe usefull for whole Vendetta.
I've heard a few opinions, and so far only one fact is unanimous: Faction system and IFF are not as good as it should be. Why mix Factions with IFF? Because IFF results from faction system.
So, let's evolve the idea on how to fix it?
For me, there are only 3 broken points in whole faction/IFF system:
1) Traitors and pirates remains in their native faction
2) Guilds are ignored by IFF and faction system in general
3) Only Serco/Itani are enemies, and it is possible to become 3PoS/13PoS.
Fixes?
1) BAN traitors; Create a NoColor or Rainbow "Nation", for pirates and griefers, so banned players can join another faction or become a Pariah (in new "nation").
2) Simple: -Allows Guilds to have Friend/Foe list of other Guilds and players. Make IFF aware of this.
Complex: -For each Guild create attributes, like "piracy level", "griefing level", "nationalistic", "alignment", etc. and adjust player status according. Example: Joining THC or CHRN results in BAN. Joining EMS makes you "admired" everywhere. (It can be abused, as everything. Guild attributes should not be static, neither given at its creation, but adjusted by their behaviour by dev/guide/someoneTBD).
-Make combat between two guild members consider their Guilds status (friend/foe) affect standing penalties.
3) Two tiers:
3.1) Make Itani/Serco standing mutually exclusive. Anyone cannot have over +600 with both. For each point you raise above limit in one faction, drops 2 in opposing one.
3.2) Make antagonists pairs: Axia/Valent, Orion/Tunguska, Aeolus/Biocom. These are not declared, open enemies as Serco/Itani, but they hate each other, and raising standing in one side drops the other as with Serco/Itani.
----
Now, what else must be changed, and how? Just say "It's broken" is not enough, propose an alternative or solution!
I've heard a few opinions, and so far only one fact is unanimous: Faction system and IFF are not as good as it should be. Why mix Factions with IFF? Because IFF results from faction system.
So, let's evolve the idea on how to fix it?
For me, there are only 3 broken points in whole faction/IFF system:
1) Traitors and pirates remains in their native faction
2) Guilds are ignored by IFF and faction system in general
3) Only Serco/Itani are enemies, and it is possible to become 3PoS/13PoS.
Fixes?
1) BAN traitors; Create a NoColor or Rainbow "Nation", for pirates and griefers, so banned players can join another faction or become a Pariah (in new "nation").
2) Simple: -Allows Guilds to have Friend/Foe list of other Guilds and players. Make IFF aware of this.
Complex: -For each Guild create attributes, like "piracy level", "griefing level", "nationalistic", "alignment", etc. and adjust player status according. Example: Joining THC or CHRN results in BAN. Joining EMS makes you "admired" everywhere. (It can be abused, as everything. Guild attributes should not be static, neither given at its creation, but adjusted by their behaviour by dev/guide/someoneTBD).
-Make combat between two guild members consider their Guilds status (friend/foe) affect standing penalties.
3) Two tiers:
3.1) Make Itani/Serco standing mutually exclusive. Anyone cannot have over +600 with both. For each point you raise above limit in one faction, drops 2 in opposing one.
3.2) Make antagonists pairs: Axia/Valent, Orion/Tunguska, Aeolus/Biocom. These are not declared, open enemies as Serco/Itani, but they hate each other, and raising standing in one side drops the other as with Serco/Itani.
----
Now, what else must be changed, and how? Just say "It's broken" is not enough, propose an alternative or solution!
The only part of this that is any good is #3.
What's missing are the relationships between the factions. Every action should have a beneficial effect for your standing with that faction, and a detrimental effect with factions who don't like the one you just helped.
I've heard people saying they want a maximum level for certain factions. Just have +/- offsets for each action based on the faction the action is performed for/against and rated for all other factions based on their relationships to one another. Doing this would automatically balance the faction system.
Finally, have a way for faction relationships to be adjusted by the players. This would allow for some very interesting results.
I'd suggest a similar system for the guilds as well, but that might be too much at the moment.
I've heard people saying they want a maximum level for certain factions. Just have +/- offsets for each action based on the faction the action is performed for/against and rated for all other factions based on their relationships to one another. Doing this would automatically balance the faction system.
Finally, have a way for faction relationships to be adjusted by the players. This would allow for some very interesting results.
I'd suggest a similar system for the guilds as well, but that might be too much at the moment.
1) just NO. Only Alloh should be allowed to go Rainbow
i is an evil serco, but serco i am.
2) use makefriend (my setup is everybody is a foe)
3) add minor faction exclusion as well
add nation specific ship restriction:
prom, svg : only serco with good standing can get 'em
valks, ibgs, only itanis with good standing can get 'em
wtd, uit maraud, only uit with a good standing can get 'em
corvus ships (vult, hound marauder): only native faction KOS/Hate can get 'em
Now ye'll have a good reason to pick a nation versus another one. Ye want this particular ship make an alt to get it!
And just ignore lazy RP ninnies recriminations
i is an evil serco, but serco i am.
2) use makefriend (my setup is everybody is a foe)
3) add minor faction exclusion as well
add nation specific ship restriction:
prom, svg : only serco with good standing can get 'em
valks, ibgs, only itanis with good standing can get 'em
wtd, uit maraud, only uit with a good standing can get 'em
corvus ships (vult, hound marauder): only native faction KOS/Hate can get 'em
Now ye'll have a good reason to pick a nation versus another one. Ye want this particular ship make an alt to get it!
And just ignore lazy RP ninnies recriminations
@DeathSpores:
1. Many rats would like to have a rat nation, and almost all non-rats players, specially newbies, prefer not share a nation with rats. Maybe you are an exception, or you are scared of using a "rainbow flag". Call it Black or Gray Nation if you prefer, color won't matter now. And makes sense to BAN traitors. Why a native KoS remains in his home nation? It is much more logical to simply kick that guy and revoke his transponder code...
2. That is an external, third-party. If you add Makefrineds plugin funtions into regular VO, I'd accept that, it works. Just add a way to Guilds share a list of friends/foes in a file, preferably online, real-time.
3) Was already in OP. Read again. If you can't raise your stats above +600, you can't get Valk/Prom/WTD... Access to all ships&items is a consequence of Faction system, not a problem to be addressed directly.
Maybe add another pair as UIT/Corvus makes sense?
1. Many rats would like to have a rat nation, and almost all non-rats players, specially newbies, prefer not share a nation with rats. Maybe you are an exception, or you are scared of using a "rainbow flag". Call it Black or Gray Nation if you prefer, color won't matter now. And makes sense to BAN traitors. Why a native KoS remains in his home nation? It is much more logical to simply kick that guy and revoke his transponder code...
2. That is an external, third-party. If you add Makefrineds plugin funtions into regular VO, I'd accept that, it works. Just add a way to Guilds share a list of friends/foes in a file, preferably online, real-time.
3) Was already in OP. Read again. If you can't raise your stats above +600, you can't get Valk/Prom/WTD... Access to all ships&items is a consequence of Faction system, not a problem to be addressed directly.
Maybe add another pair as UIT/Corvus makes sense?
Guild-related IFF and faction standing are two separate issues, one of which is already solved, so #2 doesn't need to even be here.
Friend or Foe as far as players go can really only be determined by the players involved, for this we have MakeFriends. Integrate something like that into the VO UI and that problem is fixed. Guilds should *never* have the ability to influence faction standings of other players. The potential for abuse here is massive.
On to faction standing: It doesn't make sense from a RP/storyline perspective that a player can have POS with every nation in the game. Making standings between opposing nations/factions would help fix this. Perhaps mutually exclusive for nations that are at an all out war (Serco/Itani) and perhaps a max of +1000 combined between factions that are at odds, but not directly hostile (Axia/Valent) - This way you cannot have Admire+ with both of them at any given time.
I do agree with DeathSpores regarding the ships to a certain degree. Nation-specific ships should either be available to members of their home nation at a reduced requirement (levels or standing) OR available to foreigners at an increased requirement. Perhaps with the Itani and Serco requiring military service in order to buy theirs (Prom/Valk).
Friend or Foe as far as players go can really only be determined by the players involved, for this we have MakeFriends. Integrate something like that into the VO UI and that problem is fixed. Guilds should *never* have the ability to influence faction standings of other players. The potential for abuse here is massive.
On to faction standing: It doesn't make sense from a RP/storyline perspective that a player can have POS with every nation in the game. Making standings between opposing nations/factions would help fix this. Perhaps mutually exclusive for nations that are at an all out war (Serco/Itani) and perhaps a max of +1000 combined between factions that are at odds, but not directly hostile (Axia/Valent) - This way you cannot have Admire+ with both of them at any given time.
I do agree with DeathSpores regarding the ships to a certain degree. Nation-specific ships should either be available to members of their home nation at a reduced requirement (levels or standing) OR available to foreigners at an increased requirement. Perhaps with the Itani and Serco requiring military service in order to buy theirs (Prom/Valk).
Special nation ships for nationals ONLY. It doesn't matter if some Tani is KoS to the Itanis... I don't see the Serco saying...
"Hey, I know this guy betrayed his own nation to the point that he is KoS with them but I'm sure he won't betray us... lets let him have our top shelf military technology!"
"Hey, I know this guy betrayed his own nation to the point that he is KoS with them but I'm sure he won't betray us... lets let him have our top shelf military technology!"
+1, agree that 3 KOS/hated players should be unaligned
This has been discussed at length in multiple threads already, someone should post them for reference.
The IFF system sucks. The targeting system also sucks. There are plugins that fix both, and that is a very acceptable solution for the time being. I wouldn't mind if those plugins got integrated in to the official client, but I'm in no hurry for it either.