Hi,

I propose that Police forces be created within the verse. Due to the state of hostility between the Serco and Itani I don't think a universe-wide federal law-enforcement agency would be viable or realistic so I would suggest 3 separate nation Police forces.

I would propose that entry to the Police should be by application and should be available to anyone with nation standing above a certain level (say +900) and of sufficient licenses. Upon successful application, the player would be able to create a Police alt. This alt would give them access to law-enforcement ships and the best weaponry available. This would be similar to real-life Police that are issued with high-performance cars and weapons that members of the public may not buy.

I suggest that Police alts' names be prefixed with something like "OFFICER" and that regular characters be prohibited from this to enable easy recognition of a Police pilot without the use of a plugin like targetless or TCS. I would like to see special, enhanced Police ship variants, possibly something painted black and white and equipped with blue lights. I think Police ships should have 0 cargo capacity and that Officers should therefore be prohibited from scooping drops or trading on duty.

I think Police officers should not be subject to the rules of standing or NFZ and should be able (subject to defined rules of engagement) to fire upon anybody griefing in monitored space without penalty. I feel this is a good idea because current standing rules make it very difficult, especially for less experienced players, to defend themselves against griefers with high nation standing without suffering a large standing hit themselves.

I believe having Police would enhance gameplay by providing protection, particularly to new players, thereby enhancing new-account retention. They could also provide help in resolving disputes and offer helpful guidance. If a channel (say 112 or 999) was created, it could be used by citizens to summon the Police. Just as pirates add excitement to trading, I believe having patrolling Police officers would create a fun game of cat and mouse between low-level criminals and law enforcement, with the criminals never knowing if two tricked-out Police Taurs are suddenly going to warp in and run them out of town or gank them.

Clearly Police officers would need accountability. I would suggest that they either be accountable to the Devs/Guides or that a new vote option (say: /vote dismiss "Very Badcop") be created which could be exercised by the nation's PoS to remove officerhood from anyone abusing the position.

If Police are prohibited from revenue-generating activity, do you think it should be a salaried position with say an modest hourly wage paid to one of the officer's alts for his service?

What do you think?

I propose that Police forces be created within the verse. Due to the state of hostility between the Serco and Itani I don't think a universe-wide federal law-enforcement agency would be viable or realistic so I would suggest 3 separate nation Police forces.

+1 to idea, but.. we already have [VPR] and some minor guilds.

Hell, I understand vipers are inactive and can't manage their own problems, so.. maybe you create your own cop-based-guild, that won't just grief all shady newbs like VPR or TGFT ninnies do?

This guild should be true-neutral, without being involved in any funny "coalitions", nation-based wars, etc.

-1

I do not think the game should programmatically enforce which players are and are not "criminals" or "police." Furthermore, I don't believe -ANY- players should be above and beyond faction standing loss or the NFZ laws. Heck it's bad enough that NPCs get away with it. They're "laws" for a reason.

If you think there's a player piracy/crime problem then by all means, take Pirren's suggestion and role play a character who hunts down pirates and criminals.

-1

Not enough players for this to work.

"Accountability" would be too much hassle for the devs.

Voting becomes a popularity contest.

PoS doesn't mean much - a dedicated player can go from KoS to PoS in a day. Even faster if they have 30M to blow on bribes.

But seriously, there isn't much point to a police force. Do you know what happens if I try to pirate you and there is a VPR or other "policeman" in the sector? Instead of hailing you and waiting for you to pay, which would give the VPR time to engage me, I hail you and immediately proceed to start shooting you. If you react quickly and pay before you die, I'll turn and leave. Otherwise you will die. (Tip: Don't bother typing some message to me first if I'm already shooting and there is a VPR inbound. Just pay, because in that situation I will ignore anything and everything you have to say, and will not be willing to take my hands off my controls long enough to tell you that either.)

So you are generally better off if I try to pirate you when there aren't any "police" around. They only way they'd help prevent piracy is if they quickly got between you and me and managed to kill me before I could kill you, or if you were in a fighter so that you could both gang up on me. However, personal experience indicates that you're probably going to die - I haven't had many cases where the resident VPR actually managed to stop me in time to save the victim.

Perhaps they could be useful for protecting the loot that a trader leaves behind after he dies, but again, in my experience that doesn't work out very well. Most times a VPR has tried that on me, I either killed them with my Moth and took the loot anyway, or just ignored them, scooped it up, and ran.

Don't get me wrong though, if you start a police guild or join VPR or something and actually manage to be effective, that would be great.

Nation Police Forces sounds RP better than mercenary vipers

For me, a "Police Force" could have many uses, just the implementation needs refinement...

First, there should be NPC Officers doing the daily task, or most of tasks. The Station Guards should be integrated into that "police"

Second, Border Patrol. The "police" must be securing our borders from illegal aliens and contraband.

Third, Players in the police must NOT create a new ALT. Must keep the same.

Also, "police" powers should be limited to Nation Space, becoming a regular pilot in grayspace and other nations.

Next, it should be like the Military. Does not prevent you from doing other actions, but unlocks special missions, like "Border Patrol" and "National Sweep" - where players should work as a guard, scanning either borders or nation space...

Finally, any "guard" online should be "convened" by PM when nation/stations/newbies/convoys are under attack inside nation space...

This is almost lime making VPR an official feature, bound to nations. And it gets my approval if it includes the Border Guard filled by NPCs

I wasn't floating this as a tool against the serious "merchant adventurer" more as a tool against griefing and low-level dickery. You're absolutely right, there are few things that would be an effective defence against the dedicated privateer. Thank you for sharing some of the lifestyle. As they say in SouthPark, "I learned something today."

My reason for suggesting alts was that I was trying to avoid popularity contests by separating them from known players. Not a big deal tho. I would absolutely agree that jurisdiction should end at the nation's border.

I think Alloh was suggesting the idea of missions looking for illicit items but I really like the idea of contraband. Maybe the "Police" would be better as an anti-smuggling tool. Would it be good if each nation had a list of "banned" products? So, for example, in Itani space, Serco Ale might be illegal. Sedina Chocolates or pharmaceuticals, widely believed to be "recreational" substances, might be illegal in all nation spaces. I would then imagine the prices for these items rising sharply at stations where the item is illegal, tempting traders to smuggle the items for profit.

I would see the cargo scanners on law-enforcement ships being more effective than standard civilian cargo scanners. For example, being able to see through a spoofer or scan-blocker when closer than 1000m. Missions could then be created to collect technology from round he verse and craft anti-law-enforcement scan spoofers or blockers. These items could also change hands on the black market for significant sums.

It seems like you're confusing two completely separate "problems" here. You have the game element/RP "problem" of pirates and violent maniacs, and the game/RL problem of greifers and trolls. Sure there's sometimes overlap on this, but not all greifers and trolls are pirates or violent in-game, and not all those who pirate and kill people are greifers or trolls.

In the past, there's been Guides who have admin powers to deal with players who're greifing or generally violating the game's ROC. Pirates and killers can be dealt with by the player base - There's no need for special privileges or powers to do the latter.

For example: I play an Itani nationalist. If you're Serco and I catch you in Grey trying to enter Itani space I'm going to blow you to smithereens. Heck, I might even do it repeatedly if you keep trying. This is neither piracy, greifing, against faction laws, or a violation of the game's ROC. It's all part of the game.

Personally, I like the idea of contraband and border patrols being added in the future, and I think it should be included as part of the nation military missions that already exist in the game. That's been suggested before though.

* Solution: Economic reasons to cross borders
* Draft: Border Patrol and Contraband
* New items, new twist on old items, smuggling, border patrols and consequences

Improving the idea:

* MAKE IT UIT-EXCLUSIVE.
The other nations have their military. UIT should have a "National Police" instead. UIT Native and *maybe* UIT PoS from other nations can join "Defense Forces".

Instead of fighting in Deneb, Defense Officers must protect UIT borders from contraband, pirates, Hive and all other treats to trade lanes.

Joining UIT Defense Forces is NOT a license to shoot Itani and Serco, but more closer to a mix between the regular Police and the National Guard.

Missions for "UIT Officers" are against smugglers, hive, pirates, NPC pirates, escorting military voys... Maybe even work in CtC as escorts... details to be discussed.

Some great stuff there Alloh :)

Sorry if I didn't express myself clearly. I never meant to imply that pirates were griefers or a "problem". Piracy has added to my game experience and I wouldn't want to see it gone.

"Piracy has added to my game experience and I wouldn't want to see it gone."

We need more players like you. :)

Perhaps you aren't aware of this, but if somebody who is hated or KOS enters nation space, a strike force is dispatched to deal with them. It follows them around shooting at them until they either leave or are killed. It includes Aerna Seekers. If you don't know what those are, go damage (but not kill!) a station guard or player inside the NFZ sometime. They're the little guys that blow you up when they get close. This is less of a problem in UIT space than in Itani and Serco spaces. In UIT space, there are minor factions that the pirates can have good standing with, giving them safe harbors. The SF will follow them into those minor factions' sectors, but it will immediately turn and leave. If the pirate then goes into one of the UIT sectors though, they'll come back and chase him around again. The UIT also have spottier coverage in terms of which sectors are monitored within their borders.

And of course, in the capital stations there are turrets that make things hard for interlopers.

It's true. I shifted two XC loads of cargo down to grey for someone the other day and I found the mechanical act of flying a ship that handled like a treacle-soaked sponge, to be honest, boring. The trip was made fun because a well-know privateer was in the area. The "canary" ship needed to keep a close-enough eye on the privateer so I could try to make sure he never saw the XC but do it in a way that looked like it was just a small trader going about his business and not the escort for a big prize.

I knew about the turrets but I wasn't aware that the SF pursue the interloper. I've never upset any of the major nations that much . Are the Strike Forces based at particular locations (and thus have predictable travelling time) or do they just appear out of the ether please? Yes, I was aware of the Aerna Seekers. Someone once tricked me into returning fire just inside an NFZ and I gained first hand experience. :)

If I was to take up smuggling, I would like a reasonable proportion of the guards to be human players. I just don't get the same feeling out of engaging or playing cat-and-mouse with an NPC and it wouldn't be anywhere near as much fun for me.

I don't think they come from anywhere. I don't really have any way to know other than if I stationed somebody at each wormhole and station in a sector and then entered the system myself and had them report if they saw anything happen. But I suspect they just spawn from nothing.

Human guards would be more fun, yes. We just don't have enough people yet. And nationalist guilds do tend to perform that role to some extent, when they aren't in Deneb or Grey.

ARF_01 has chased pirates down in Itani space a few times before. It's fun, and VO just wouldn't be right without them. :)

The strike forces launch from the station if someone hated enters the station sector. In other parts of monitored space they just warp in from who the heck knows where (probably 101 B-1 lol...)