Forums » Suggestions
NFZ = No Fire Zone, for real yo!
The NFZ is supposed to be about protecting the station. Currently though it's a "No hitting other people zone" instead of a "no fire zone".
-- Core suggestion --
Temp-kos should trigger for hitting the station (from any distance) as well as for firing within the NFZ whether you hit anything at all.
Actually hitting the station should additionally carry permanent penalties proportional to the damage caused (or at least the damage that would be caused if stations weren't invulnerable).
Furthermore, the game should track any other ships you hit while you are inside the NFZ. If those ships then hit the station within 20s or so and you are inside the NFZ at the time of hitting, you would also receive a permanent penalty of half what you'd receive for dealing the damage yourself.
This is to promote people keeping fights outside the NFZ, and to discourage people from provoking others into accidentally hitting the station.
For the sake of newbs, provide a one-time exception to the "no fire at all" clause to all characters, where the first time they fire within the NFZ, if they don't hit anything, it gives them a Very Noticeable Warning that firing AT ALL now carries penalties, and there will be no more warnings. The exception period would last for three seconds from first firing (as long as nothing is hit), so that staggered fire doesn't get them in trouble. The exception could possibly be once per hour or some-such for the sake of sloppy people, but I'd prefer once ever.
-- Support for heroics --
I also propose a means to lessen the burden on heroics.
The idea here is not to determine who is good and bad, but rather to determine who is threatening the station and who is rescuing the station, and to not leave rescuers stuck with a temp-kos afterward if they do a good job, while still punishing "rescuers" who fumble the job. Rescuers would still have the temp-kos active while doing the job, however, making them fair game for anybody to kill without faction penalty (NFZ rules notwithstanding).
To be a hero, you must not violate the NFZ until after the villain you are gunning for has violated the NFZ. You must then personally destroy the villain (or perhaps cause more than 50% damage before he dies or flees, or in the event a guard/aerna/turret kills him, more than 50% of the non-guard-inflicted damage) without causing significant damage to the station (say, an EC-88's worth of armor points) and without hitting any ships that did not violate the NFZ prior to your own violation (and station guards do not count as violators ever). Upon killing the violator under these conditions, your own temp-kos would be dropped. Any penalties you acquired due to station damage will remain -- be more careful next time!
The station guards should prioritize their targets based on damage caused to station, damage caused to guards, and initial pre-violation local standing. So if a heroic-type with high standing jumps in and is careful, he'll become temp-kos during the fight but the station guards would mostly focused on the original villain. If on the other hand the "hero" is a clumsy idiot who thinks using the station to detonate flares is a good idea, the guards might decide that he is actually the greater threat. If the villain had decent standing and is being careful not to damage the station, and the newcomer has poor standing, they might assume that the hero is most likely an accomplice and possibly a greater threat even before the newcomer actually hurts anything.
Groups could be treated under the same rules. Penalties would apply equally to all group-members who are within the NFZ, and would NOT be diluted - if your groupmate attacks the station and you are within the NFZ, you take as much penalty as if you attacked it yourself without a group. Actions by anybody in the group would be liable to prevent everybody in the group (whether in the NFZ or not) from having their temp-kos lifted after victory. At the same time, victory meeting the heroic conditions would apply to everybody in the group (regardless of location), removing all of their temp-kos flags.
The purpose that serves is allowing groups to fight villains and share the temp-kos lifting. Otherwise only one person would get it and the rest would be stuck with the full temp-kos.
-- Core suggestion --
Temp-kos should trigger for hitting the station (from any distance) as well as for firing within the NFZ whether you hit anything at all.
Actually hitting the station should additionally carry permanent penalties proportional to the damage caused (or at least the damage that would be caused if stations weren't invulnerable).
Furthermore, the game should track any other ships you hit while you are inside the NFZ. If those ships then hit the station within 20s or so and you are inside the NFZ at the time of hitting, you would also receive a permanent penalty of half what you'd receive for dealing the damage yourself.
This is to promote people keeping fights outside the NFZ, and to discourage people from provoking others into accidentally hitting the station.
For the sake of newbs, provide a one-time exception to the "no fire at all" clause to all characters, where the first time they fire within the NFZ, if they don't hit anything, it gives them a Very Noticeable Warning that firing AT ALL now carries penalties, and there will be no more warnings. The exception period would last for three seconds from first firing (as long as nothing is hit), so that staggered fire doesn't get them in trouble. The exception could possibly be once per hour or some-such for the sake of sloppy people, but I'd prefer once ever.
-- Support for heroics --
I also propose a means to lessen the burden on heroics.
The idea here is not to determine who is good and bad, but rather to determine who is threatening the station and who is rescuing the station, and to not leave rescuers stuck with a temp-kos afterward if they do a good job, while still punishing "rescuers" who fumble the job. Rescuers would still have the temp-kos active while doing the job, however, making them fair game for anybody to kill without faction penalty (NFZ rules notwithstanding).
To be a hero, you must not violate the NFZ until after the villain you are gunning for has violated the NFZ. You must then personally destroy the villain (or perhaps cause more than 50% damage before he dies or flees, or in the event a guard/aerna/turret kills him, more than 50% of the non-guard-inflicted damage) without causing significant damage to the station (say, an EC-88's worth of armor points) and without hitting any ships that did not violate the NFZ prior to your own violation (and station guards do not count as violators ever). Upon killing the violator under these conditions, your own temp-kos would be dropped. Any penalties you acquired due to station damage will remain -- be more careful next time!
The station guards should prioritize their targets based on damage caused to station, damage caused to guards, and initial pre-violation local standing. So if a heroic-type with high standing jumps in and is careful, he'll become temp-kos during the fight but the station guards would mostly focused on the original villain. If on the other hand the "hero" is a clumsy idiot who thinks using the station to detonate flares is a good idea, the guards might decide that he is actually the greater threat. If the villain had decent standing and is being careful not to damage the station, and the newcomer has poor standing, they might assume that the hero is most likely an accomplice and possibly a greater threat even before the newcomer actually hurts anything.
Groups could be treated under the same rules. Penalties would apply equally to all group-members who are within the NFZ, and would NOT be diluted - if your groupmate attacks the station and you are within the NFZ, you take as much penalty as if you attacked it yourself without a group. Actions by anybody in the group would be liable to prevent everybody in the group (whether in the NFZ or not) from having their temp-kos lifted after victory. At the same time, victory meeting the heroic conditions would apply to everybody in the group (regardless of location), removing all of their temp-kos flags.
The purpose that serves is allowing groups to fight villains and share the temp-kos lifting. Otherwise only one person would get it and the rest would be stuck with the full temp-kos.
But... if I accidentally click the mouse button?
I've already done that by mistake several times... and also to check if the groups are ok.
I've already done that by mistake several times... and also to check if the groups are ok.
No.
tl;dr : ]
Summary: Shooting inside the NFZ = temp-kos, even if you miss. Hitting the station = permanent penalty proportional to total damage.
Plus a way to kill people who are temp-kos without getting a 15 minute temp-kos of your own, IF you are very careful. (And you still have temp-kos while you are killing them.)
Kabuloso: Don't put your finger on the trigger unless you intend to shoot. Test your groups outside the NFZ. It's not like it's that far.
Plus a way to kill people who are temp-kos without getting a 15 minute temp-kos of your own, IF you are very careful. (And you still have temp-kos while you are killing them.)
Kabuloso: Don't put your finger on the trigger unless you intend to shoot. Test your groups outside the NFZ. It's not like it's that far.
+1 in principle, will post more later.
Later: I agree with most of what you have here. One thing that may need to be implemented along with this is weapon safeties of some sort (no automagical stuff) to prevent people from accidentally clicking and losing standing by hitting the station with a jackhammer. Mice and joysticks can be finicky, and a stray finger could cause problems on touch devices.
Question: Actually hitting the station should additionally carry permanent penalties proportional to the damage caused "permanent penalties" meaning permanent faction standing loss, or fines, or what?
No. - This does not contribute. Elaborate, expand, or refrain from wasting space.
Later: I agree with most of what you have here. One thing that may need to be implemented along with this is weapon safeties of some sort (no automagical stuff) to prevent people from accidentally clicking and losing standing by hitting the station with a jackhammer. Mice and joysticks can be finicky, and a stray finger could cause problems on touch devices.
Question: Actually hitting the station should additionally carry permanent penalties proportional to the damage caused "permanent penalties" meaning permanent faction standing loss, or fines, or what?
No. - This does not contribute. Elaborate, expand, or refrain from wasting space.
+1
Yes, I do truly like a true no-fire zone idea. Right now it doesn't seem to matter much, and in some areas it is quite laughable.
Yes, I do truly like a true no-fire zone idea. Right now it doesn't seem to matter much, and in some areas it is quite laughable.
No.
no - it only benefits the criminal element of VO who have no standing to lose....
(Unless the sf and other station defenses were given a massive upgrade to actually keep KOS players out....).
(Unless the sf and other station defenses were given a massive upgrade to actually keep KOS players out....).
Only benefits criminals? So I guess having the ability to defend yourself without receiving a full 15 minute temp-kos does not benefit traders and miners at all, huh? And all the complaints about how that's an issue were just my imagination.
Frankly, I was expecting people to start accusing me of catering to the traders with this. I was not expecting the reverse.
The only thing this suggestion includes that would actually be against trader interests is penalizing them if the other guy hits the station after they attack him. I suppose I could fly about shooting people, waiting for somebody to fire back, and then start unloading flares on the station to effectively attack their standing. So that part could stand to be nerfed down to a quarter or even removed, but I like it as a motivator to pull the fight away from the station.
Otherwise I fail to see how this benefits the criminal element.
Frankly, I was expecting people to start accusing me of catering to the traders with this. I was not expecting the reverse.
The only thing this suggestion includes that would actually be against trader interests is penalizing them if the other guy hits the station after they attack him. I suppose I could fly about shooting people, waiting for somebody to fire back, and then start unloading flares on the station to effectively attack their standing. So that part could stand to be nerfed down to a quarter or even removed, but I like it as a motivator to pull the fight away from the station.
Otherwise I fail to see how this benefits the criminal element.
Your suggestion makes it worse not better.....
Perhaps you hit your head once too many times during pvp
Perhaps you hit your head once too many times during pvp
Why would the SF be given an upgrade that allows them to do what 99% of actual players can't do (i.e., shut down a moving target that's not interested in a stand-up fight)?
If you want to make running away from pursuit harder, do it across the board. Just don't whine when that means trader get shot down even more than they already do.
If you want to make running away from pursuit harder, do it across the board. Just don't whine when that means trader get shot down even more than they already do.
Please elaborate PaK, because I'm failing to see how it makes anything worse beyond accidents due to people's currently sloppy trigger discipline.
Also, don't think I didn't notice that while you normally complain about pirates having good faction, suddenly you're saying they actually have bad faction and therefor increased penalties accomplish nothing.
Also, don't think I didn't notice that while you normally complain about pirates having good faction, suddenly you're saying they actually have bad faction and therefor increased penalties accomplish nothing.
+1
Just out of curiosity, PaK, have you ever agreed with an idea that was not your own? I don't think I've EVER seen you give support to a suggestion made by someone else...
Back on topic, hell yeah (but I made this same suggestion a while ago, with less detail or thought... and probably in 100, rather than here...). NFZ as it stands is a bad joke.
Dent.
Back on topic, hell yeah (but I made this same suggestion a while ago, with less detail or thought... and probably in 100, rather than here...). NFZ as it stands is a bad joke.
Dent.
Sometimes, disagreeing can be much more helpful than agreeing.
I don't mind the villains with bad standing zipping around a station and shooting noobs etc., it's the pirates with POS standing shooting noobs and using the 'system' to get the noobs killed and KOS while the 'pirates' keeping their perfect standing. Country club pirates I saw someone call them on 100 and I agree.
I agree with you, but that's not anything to do with the NFZ.