Forums » Suggestions
>In my view, the wraith is the weapon if you want 2 small ones and a big one.
>The warthog is the one with 1 big and 1 small and very good agility. The atlas
>is the one with a normal hull, a serious cargoload and 1 big and small weapon.
Yeah but how do you explain this?
Warthog - medium agility, 1 L-port, 1 S-port
Atlas - medium-low agility, 1 L-port, 1 S-port
Hornet - medium agility, 4 S-ports
Wraith - medium-low agility, 1 L-port, 2 S-ports
By logic the Hornet should have 1 L-port and 2 S-ports to keep that pattern going. There's a gap there that's not being filled. The Hornet would fulfill that role perfectly. The Wraith can get a boost in cargo space to be more like what the Atlas is to the Warthog.
>If you start altering that, then you are taking away the identity of a hornet.
>A hornet is a supportship, it can dish out a lot of damage, but can defend itself
>relatively well. Not perfect, it will go down against a valk or a vult, but against a
>rag or so it will shine.
No, the problem is it CAN'T defend itself with the weapons provided, without forcing the pilot to load up on gauss cannons or rockets, which is in fact more limiting than my proposal. As a heavy fighter or support ship or strike fighter or whatever, it needs to have that L-port for because it's delving into heavy class territory. Why would you slap more S-ports on to a medium or low agility ship if it can't aim them properly to begin with?
>The warthog is the one with 1 big and 1 small and very good agility. The atlas
>is the one with a normal hull, a serious cargoload and 1 big and small weapon.
Yeah but how do you explain this?
Warthog - medium agility, 1 L-port, 1 S-port
Atlas - medium-low agility, 1 L-port, 1 S-port
Hornet - medium agility, 4 S-ports
Wraith - medium-low agility, 1 L-port, 2 S-ports
By logic the Hornet should have 1 L-port and 2 S-ports to keep that pattern going. There's a gap there that's not being filled. The Hornet would fulfill that role perfectly. The Wraith can get a boost in cargo space to be more like what the Atlas is to the Warthog.
>If you start altering that, then you are taking away the identity of a hornet.
>A hornet is a supportship, it can dish out a lot of damage, but can defend itself
>relatively well. Not perfect, it will go down against a valk or a vult, but against a
>rag or so it will shine.
No, the problem is it CAN'T defend itself with the weapons provided, without forcing the pilot to load up on gauss cannons or rockets, which is in fact more limiting than my proposal. As a heavy fighter or support ship or strike fighter or whatever, it needs to have that L-port for because it's delving into heavy class territory. Why would you slap more S-ports on to a medium or low agility ship if it can't aim them properly to begin with?
The gap you refer to Arlote, is already filled by the Wraith. There isn't much of an agility difference between the hornet and wraith.
The wobble caused by the agility is a pain, but if you practice with it a lot, it gets much less daunting. The basic concept is whenever your crosshairs light up, fire. Sure the wobble creates a fire wait wait fire wait fire pattern that is annoying but it isn't unmanageable. (I found MW4 is great for practicing this)
Arolte, the hornet doesn't have to defend itself. In fact it is like what the bombers should be: dead if faced by fighters of equal or greater skill. Keep in mind that although the net doesn't have the best chance to survive it can tear through any ship out there. With fighter cover a group of nets can dominate!
Of course... that leaves its role rather limited, so it needs some change, its just that a weapons reconfig would make it a whole new ship with a whole new role.
As for this contiuity thingy,
why must ships conform to an arbitrary organization that you invented? They fit what the devs make them and thats that! Its ok so if it ain't broke, don't fix it. The weapons themselves need to be fixed.
PS
thanks for pointing out the OR nature of my statement I'll make sure to capitalize key words in the future for those ppl that only skim:)
Arolte, the hornet doesn't have to defend itself. In fact it is like what the bombers should be: dead if faced by fighters of equal or greater skill. Keep in mind that although the net doesn't have the best chance to survive it can tear through any ship out there. With fighter cover a group of nets can dominate!
Of course... that leaves its role rather limited, so it needs some change, its just that a weapons reconfig would make it a whole new ship with a whole new role.
As for this contiuity thingy,
why must ships conform to an arbitrary organization that you invented? They fit what the devs make them and thats that! Its ok so if it ain't broke, don't fix it. The weapons themselves need to be fixed.
PS
thanks for pointing out the OR nature of my statement I'll make sure to capitalize key words in the future for those ppl that only skim:)
>The gap you refer to Arlote, is already filled by the Wraith. There isn't much of an
>agility difference between the hornet and wraith.
That'll have to change, won't it. The Wraith is way too agile right now. In 3.2 it wasn't nearly as agile as it is now, but yet it wasn't slow either. I think it was okay back then. With an increase in cargo space and a decrease in agility, it'll work out. Point is, nothing is set in stone right now. Don't limit yourself to thinking that just because the Wraith is close to the Hornet doesn't mean its ability and cargo space can't be changed to make room for it.
>Arolte, the hornet doesn't have to defend itself. In fact it is like what the
>bombers should be: dead if faced by fighters of equal or greater skill. Keep in
> mind that although the net doesn't have the best chance to survive it can tear
> through any ship out there. With fighter cover a group of nets can dominate!
I don't understand this logic at all. The Prometheus is far more lethal than the Hornet. Heck, you could even argue that the Ragnarok is far more lethal than the Hornet. The reason is they can equip themselves with swarm missiles and gatling turrets to keep fighters at bay. They DO have the ability to defend themselves. So if bombers can, why can't a lighter ship like the Hornet?
You'll also have to understand that this game is aiming to be an MMORPG. Ideally all ships should have the capability of defending themselves. Not necessarily being killers of each other equally, but just enough to get a fighter to back off from engaging a heavier ship. There will be times when people will opt not to fight at all. If you want to retain those MMORPG aspects, you'll have to respect that.
>Of course... that leaves its role rather limited, so it needs some change, its just
>that a weapons reconfig would make it a whole new ship with a whole new role.
That's correct. A weapon port change will allow for a more suited role for its current agility and hull. That's what I'm trying to propose here. A change.
>As for this contiuity thingy,
>why must ships conform to an arbitrary organization that you invented? They fit
>what the devs make them and thats that! Its ok so if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
>The weapons themselves need to be fixed.
1. They aren't arbitrarily organized. Look at the list again. They're arranged by weapon ports, with the exception of three revisions that I proposed. They're also roughly arranged by ship classes.
2. The reason I'm asking for continuity is to allow for a smoother transition between ship classes. If a player can't decide a role between a fighter or a bomber, they may opt to choose a strike fighter instead. It's all about options and balance.
3. Well the problem is it IS broke. There are a few ships available now that continuously get their asses kicked by Valks and Vultures. Altering the characteristics of existing weapons will help somewhat. But altering the availability of certain weapons for certain ships would be even better, due to the nature of their implied role.
I apologize if I'm acting a little stubborn in my replies, but I truly believe in this proposal and I'm going to try my best to defend my ideas. Whether the devs accept it or not is up to them. I'm sure they're tired of hearing from me. And whether you agree with my ideas or not, I hope I've provided you with some insight on the topic at hand. I know I have gained some from some of your posts. It's always good to have more than one view.
>agility difference between the hornet and wraith.
That'll have to change, won't it. The Wraith is way too agile right now. In 3.2 it wasn't nearly as agile as it is now, but yet it wasn't slow either. I think it was okay back then. With an increase in cargo space and a decrease in agility, it'll work out. Point is, nothing is set in stone right now. Don't limit yourself to thinking that just because the Wraith is close to the Hornet doesn't mean its ability and cargo space can't be changed to make room for it.
>Arolte, the hornet doesn't have to defend itself. In fact it is like what the
>bombers should be: dead if faced by fighters of equal or greater skill. Keep in
> mind that although the net doesn't have the best chance to survive it can tear
> through any ship out there. With fighter cover a group of nets can dominate!
I don't understand this logic at all. The Prometheus is far more lethal than the Hornet. Heck, you could even argue that the Ragnarok is far more lethal than the Hornet. The reason is they can equip themselves with swarm missiles and gatling turrets to keep fighters at bay. They DO have the ability to defend themselves. So if bombers can, why can't a lighter ship like the Hornet?
You'll also have to understand that this game is aiming to be an MMORPG. Ideally all ships should have the capability of defending themselves. Not necessarily being killers of each other equally, but just enough to get a fighter to back off from engaging a heavier ship. There will be times when people will opt not to fight at all. If you want to retain those MMORPG aspects, you'll have to respect that.
>Of course... that leaves its role rather limited, so it needs some change, its just
>that a weapons reconfig would make it a whole new ship with a whole new role.
That's correct. A weapon port change will allow for a more suited role for its current agility and hull. That's what I'm trying to propose here. A change.
>As for this contiuity thingy,
>why must ships conform to an arbitrary organization that you invented? They fit
>what the devs make them and thats that! Its ok so if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
>The weapons themselves need to be fixed.
1. They aren't arbitrarily organized. Look at the list again. They're arranged by weapon ports, with the exception of three revisions that I proposed. They're also roughly arranged by ship classes.
2. The reason I'm asking for continuity is to allow for a smoother transition between ship classes. If a player can't decide a role between a fighter or a bomber, they may opt to choose a strike fighter instead. It's all about options and balance.
3. Well the problem is it IS broke. There are a few ships available now that continuously get their asses kicked by Valks and Vultures. Altering the characteristics of existing weapons will help somewhat. But altering the availability of certain weapons for certain ships would be even better, due to the nature of their implied role.
I apologize if I'm acting a little stubborn in my replies, but I truly believe in this proposal and I'm going to try my best to defend my ideas. Whether the devs accept it or not is up to them. I'm sure they're tired of hearing from me. And whether you agree with my ideas or not, I hope I've provided you with some insight on the topic at hand. I know I have gained some from some of your posts. It's always good to have more than one view.
That'll have to change, won't it. The Wraith is way too agile right now. In 3.2 it wasn't nearly as agile as it is now, but yet it wasn't slow either. I think it was okay back then. With an increase in cargo space and a decrease in agility, it'll work out. Point is, nothing is set in stone right now. Don't limit yourself to thinking that just because the Wraith is close to the Hornet doesn't mean its ability and cargo space can't be changed to make room for it.
ack, this is a point, that just is utter bs. It is the same as saying a rag isnt going to be a rag forever so the 2k in hull shouldnt be given.
The wraith hasnt been changed in any way. Everybody agreed upon it that it was a bad ship because it wasnt flown much. Mostly because they didnt have their use yet. But in reality a wraith is an adequate ship, but it will still get its ass kicked by a hornet. And for god sake, stop trying to alter everything just so you get your way. The hornet is fine, it could use some more longetivity or something else, but a change in weaponports will just change its attractiveness to me.
And if you were going to change a wraith to a bigger trader, then nobody would even consider of using the atlas or the centaur anymore, if they didnt have a marauder.
The ships are balanced arolte, just believe me. And once again a set up decides the success of a tactic, the ship is only a small support in that.
First of all the rag is death 99% of the time against a hornet. A prom shouldnt easilly go down against a hornet, it is a special ship after all. And I would feel taken if I had payed 100k for my ship while a 20k hornet takes it out in a blink.
You are constantly talking about swarms. They arent the ultimate defense, they can be dodged if you know that the person is packing one. It all depends from setups.
So if bombers can, why can't a lighter ship like the Hornet?
answer why a lighter ship doesnt pack swarms:
its lighter :D
ow and one more note, the hornet has a medium - high agility, but because of its 17m and its waubble it doesnt look like this.
ack, this is a point, that just is utter bs. It is the same as saying a rag isnt going to be a rag forever so the 2k in hull shouldnt be given.
The wraith hasnt been changed in any way. Everybody agreed upon it that it was a bad ship because it wasnt flown much. Mostly because they didnt have their use yet. But in reality a wraith is an adequate ship, but it will still get its ass kicked by a hornet. And for god sake, stop trying to alter everything just so you get your way. The hornet is fine, it could use some more longetivity or something else, but a change in weaponports will just change its attractiveness to me.
And if you were going to change a wraith to a bigger trader, then nobody would even consider of using the atlas or the centaur anymore, if they didnt have a marauder.
The ships are balanced arolte, just believe me. And once again a set up decides the success of a tactic, the ship is only a small support in that.
First of all the rag is death 99% of the time against a hornet. A prom shouldnt easilly go down against a hornet, it is a special ship after all. And I would feel taken if I had payed 100k for my ship while a 20k hornet takes it out in a blink.
You are constantly talking about swarms. They arent the ultimate defense, they can be dodged if you know that the person is packing one. It all depends from setups.
So if bombers can, why can't a lighter ship like the Hornet?
answer why a lighter ship doesnt pack swarms:
its lighter :D
ow and one more note, the hornet has a medium - high agility, but because of its 17m and its waubble it doesnt look like this.
>ack, this is a point, that just is utter bs. It is the same as saying a rag
>isnt going to be a rag forever so the 2k in hull shouldnt be given.
What? No. I personally didn't see any issues with the Wraith in 3.2.0. Why it was given an agility boost is beyond me. If it was fine before, I don't see why it can't budge over to make room for the Hornet. It also looks like it could carry lots of cargo. It would be the next step up from the Atlas, is what I'm trying to suggest.
Your argument is that this ship was changed. So therefore the Hornet can't change just because the Wraith was changed once and it would be all too similar. There's more to a ship than agility. Cargo space and hull points can change also. That's why I feel the Wraith and Hornet can coexist despite their having the same ports under this proposition. The Warthog and Atlas do an excellent job of demonstrating this.
>The wraith hasnt been changed in any way. Everybody agreed upon it
>that it was a bad ship because it wasnt flown much. Mostly because
>they didnt have their use yet. But in reality a wraith is an adequate ship,
It hasn't been changed? Correct me if I'm wrong here but it feels more agile than before. In any case I feel that its agility can be lowered just a tad. And yes, the Wraith can kick the Hornet's ass. All it takes is an advanced gatling turret and a pair of geminis to do the job. Meanwhile the Hornet will struggle to squeeze a few shots off while the reticule wobbles like crazy as it tries to dodge the gatling fire.
>but it will still get its ass kicked by a hornet. And for god sake, stop
>trying to alter everything just so you get your way. The hornet is fine, it
>could use some more longetivity or something else, but a change in
>weaponports will just change its attractiveness to me.
For god sake, stop saying I'm altering things MY way. I could argue the same for you, since you yourself mention personal attractiveness. But the truth is this isn't all about personal preference. This is about offering suggestions to balance ships. Try something out before you totally disagree on it. You don't offer many convincing arguments on alternative solutions, but rather say that it's all wrong. It doesn't help the discussion one bit.
>And if you were going to change a wraith to a bigger trader, then
>nobody would even consider of using the atlas or the centaur anymore,
>if they didnt have a marauder.
The price is one thing. The Atlas is cheaper and more agile. And agility is the other thing. Although the Atlas has less cargo, its agility will ensure that you'll make it to your destination alive. The more cargo you carry, the higher the risk you'll have of running into a pirate and getting killed, due to the lower agility. It's a fair tradeoff. By making the Wraith into a medium trade vessel, you offer good balance of agility and cargo space.
>The ships are balanced arolte, just believe me. And once again a
>set up decides the success of a tactic, the ship is only a small support
>in that.
The ships aren't balanced. That's why people continue to post about the Valkyrie, Vulture, Prometheus, etc. everyday. The devs clearly stated that there are still balance issues that need to be worked out. It's just not as high of a priority right now.
>answer why a lighter ship doesnt pack swarms:
>its lighter :D
The Warthog is lighter than the Hornet. Yet it can pack swarms. Ooops!
>ow and one more note, the hornet has a medium - high agility, but
>because of its 17m and its waubble it doesnt look like this.
You're right. That's the illusion that we get out of it. But they both essentially cripple the ship's aiming abilities, so the result is the same. I tried so hard not to debate agility in this thread, but unfortunately it was brought up. Nevertheless, I still feel the wobble is necessary to prevent the Hornet from becoming an uber ship. But the only way to keep the wobble and allow the Hornet to defend itself is to provide it with an L-port.
>isnt going to be a rag forever so the 2k in hull shouldnt be given.
What? No. I personally didn't see any issues with the Wraith in 3.2.0. Why it was given an agility boost is beyond me. If it was fine before, I don't see why it can't budge over to make room for the Hornet. It also looks like it could carry lots of cargo. It would be the next step up from the Atlas, is what I'm trying to suggest.
Your argument is that this ship was changed. So therefore the Hornet can't change just because the Wraith was changed once and it would be all too similar. There's more to a ship than agility. Cargo space and hull points can change also. That's why I feel the Wraith and Hornet can coexist despite their having the same ports under this proposition. The Warthog and Atlas do an excellent job of demonstrating this.
>The wraith hasnt been changed in any way. Everybody agreed upon it
>that it was a bad ship because it wasnt flown much. Mostly because
>they didnt have their use yet. But in reality a wraith is an adequate ship,
It hasn't been changed? Correct me if I'm wrong here but it feels more agile than before. In any case I feel that its agility can be lowered just a tad. And yes, the Wraith can kick the Hornet's ass. All it takes is an advanced gatling turret and a pair of geminis to do the job. Meanwhile the Hornet will struggle to squeeze a few shots off while the reticule wobbles like crazy as it tries to dodge the gatling fire.
>but it will still get its ass kicked by a hornet. And for god sake, stop
>trying to alter everything just so you get your way. The hornet is fine, it
>could use some more longetivity or something else, but a change in
>weaponports will just change its attractiveness to me.
For god sake, stop saying I'm altering things MY way. I could argue the same for you, since you yourself mention personal attractiveness. But the truth is this isn't all about personal preference. This is about offering suggestions to balance ships. Try something out before you totally disagree on it. You don't offer many convincing arguments on alternative solutions, but rather say that it's all wrong. It doesn't help the discussion one bit.
>And if you were going to change a wraith to a bigger trader, then
>nobody would even consider of using the atlas or the centaur anymore,
>if they didnt have a marauder.
The price is one thing. The Atlas is cheaper and more agile. And agility is the other thing. Although the Atlas has less cargo, its agility will ensure that you'll make it to your destination alive. The more cargo you carry, the higher the risk you'll have of running into a pirate and getting killed, due to the lower agility. It's a fair tradeoff. By making the Wraith into a medium trade vessel, you offer good balance of agility and cargo space.
>The ships are balanced arolte, just believe me. And once again a
>set up decides the success of a tactic, the ship is only a small support
>in that.
The ships aren't balanced. That's why people continue to post about the Valkyrie, Vulture, Prometheus, etc. everyday. The devs clearly stated that there are still balance issues that need to be worked out. It's just not as high of a priority right now.
>answer why a lighter ship doesnt pack swarms:
>its lighter :D
The Warthog is lighter than the Hornet. Yet it can pack swarms. Ooops!
>ow and one more note, the hornet has a medium - high agility, but
>because of its 17m and its waubble it doesnt look like this.
You're right. That's the illusion that we get out of it. But they both essentially cripple the ship's aiming abilities, so the result is the same. I tried so hard not to debate agility in this thread, but unfortunately it was brought up. Nevertheless, I still feel the wobble is necessary to prevent the Hornet from becoming an uber ship. But the only way to keep the wobble and allow the Hornet to defend itself is to provide it with an L-port.
There's nothing wrong with hornet. I've seen more hornets than valks recently, and I play a LOT these days. The valk is also not too bad now that flares aren't as useful. The most common combo is a dual-gauss dual-flare hornet or a dual tachy vulture. My combo is a railgun uberbus. >:D
The wraith hasnt been given an agility boost. Not since its creation anyway. If you dont believe me, then please ask a dev to confirm, but I seriously dont recal a wraith receiving an increase in agility.
wraith - hornet - prom, that would be 3 ships. All with the same weaponsetup and only a small difference in the rest.
If you do alter it then in reallity you would just be making the hornet into a worse wraith because of its sizedifference then the wraith is for the moment. And in the end the wraith will be nerved completely. Just look at the prom, if it wouldnt have been for its insane hp it would be easy as pie to take it down.
tradeships: atlas - bus"EC88" - centaur. 3 ships, more then enough.
Arolte, there you saying it yourselve:
All it takes is an advanced gatling turret and a pair of geminis, for this set up you dont need a warthog to take a hornet down, a rag/prom/wraith/centaur is sufficient to do this. Dont forget, the big weakness of the hornet is because it is a big target, it has the same problem as the prom. But for the rest it is all right. And the wobble about what you are taling so much, yes it does wobble, and yes it irritating at times, but after a while youll get used to it and youll start shooting before it comes to a complete stop and still hit him because you yourselve made the small adjustement to the aiming.
The reason why people are contineously posting about ships is because they cant look farther then their nose is long. They dont see that it isnt the ship that is unbalanced but it are some of the weapons that arent completely balanced to the other weapons yet.
for instance.
swarms: ineffective at medium distance and you can boost away.
advanced gatling: ineffective at medium- long distance, so you can dodge them and use a ship with a higher hull/agility to your advantage and come in, shoot something that keeps the person busy pepper him with a couple of gausshots or rockets go out and rinse and repeat.
gemini: inneffective at every distance if you watch out. Except against proms or rags or centaurs that arent boosting.
My reason why I dont want to change the hornet is because I like the hornet as it is. It can dish out damage fast, it has for once something else then a mixture of large ports and small ports for a medium agility ship. I do admit that I dont use the hornet that much because I prefer the vult because its easier to dodge flares in. But if I need to kill a wraith/warthog then the honret would be my ship of choice. It has no chance against a vult or a valk because these ships can make circles around a hornet and the hornet is so big that it turns so slowly.
One more thing, why should I offer alternatives if I dnt consider the hornet as unbalanced, and if you really want me to give an alternative then here you have it.
Take away all ships except the hornet, put on all ships 1 small and 1 large, give them all 10k hull, take away the swarms and the advanced gatling and the gauss and the rockets and lets play patience.
For crying out loud, if you fly a hornet, then dont expect to live a long life against any dedicated fighter ship. If you fly a vult and encounter a heavy with swarms and they ran you in your face dont expect to live a long live , but expect to run and let him waste his swarms or just run and grab another ship or wait on someone with a better ship to take out that sort of ship.
And now for my real proposal: just add 1 k to the hull of the ship. Because longetivity in a duel or a fight can sometimes be the difference between dieing or staying alive.
PS: taking away the hornet would kill the customisation of 4 small weapons and just add another 2 gauss , 1 swarm combo.
cheers
wraith - hornet - prom, that would be 3 ships. All with the same weaponsetup and only a small difference in the rest.
If you do alter it then in reallity you would just be making the hornet into a worse wraith because of its sizedifference then the wraith is for the moment. And in the end the wraith will be nerved completely. Just look at the prom, if it wouldnt have been for its insane hp it would be easy as pie to take it down.
tradeships: atlas - bus"EC88" - centaur. 3 ships, more then enough.
Arolte, there you saying it yourselve:
All it takes is an advanced gatling turret and a pair of geminis, for this set up you dont need a warthog to take a hornet down, a rag/prom/wraith/centaur is sufficient to do this. Dont forget, the big weakness of the hornet is because it is a big target, it has the same problem as the prom. But for the rest it is all right. And the wobble about what you are taling so much, yes it does wobble, and yes it irritating at times, but after a while youll get used to it and youll start shooting before it comes to a complete stop and still hit him because you yourselve made the small adjustement to the aiming.
The reason why people are contineously posting about ships is because they cant look farther then their nose is long. They dont see that it isnt the ship that is unbalanced but it are some of the weapons that arent completely balanced to the other weapons yet.
for instance.
swarms: ineffective at medium distance and you can boost away.
advanced gatling: ineffective at medium- long distance, so you can dodge them and use a ship with a higher hull/agility to your advantage and come in, shoot something that keeps the person busy pepper him with a couple of gausshots or rockets go out and rinse and repeat.
gemini: inneffective at every distance if you watch out. Except against proms or rags or centaurs that arent boosting.
My reason why I dont want to change the hornet is because I like the hornet as it is. It can dish out damage fast, it has for once something else then a mixture of large ports and small ports for a medium agility ship. I do admit that I dont use the hornet that much because I prefer the vult because its easier to dodge flares in. But if I need to kill a wraith/warthog then the honret would be my ship of choice. It has no chance against a vult or a valk because these ships can make circles around a hornet and the hornet is so big that it turns so slowly.
One more thing, why should I offer alternatives if I dnt consider the hornet as unbalanced, and if you really want me to give an alternative then here you have it.
Take away all ships except the hornet, put on all ships 1 small and 1 large, give them all 10k hull, take away the swarms and the advanced gatling and the gauss and the rockets and lets play patience.
For crying out loud, if you fly a hornet, then dont expect to live a long life against any dedicated fighter ship. If you fly a vult and encounter a heavy with swarms and they ran you in your face dont expect to live a long live , but expect to run and let him waste his swarms or just run and grab another ship or wait on someone with a better ship to take out that sort of ship.
And now for my real proposal: just add 1 k to the hull of the ship. Because longetivity in a duel or a fight can sometimes be the difference between dieing or staying alive.
PS: taking away the hornet would kill the customisation of 4 small weapons and just add another 2 gauss , 1 swarm combo.
cheers
>The wraith hasnt been given an agility boost. Not since its creation
>anyway. If you dont believe me, then please ask a dev to confirm, but
>I seriously dont recal a wraith receiving an increase in agility.
That's okay. In any case I still feel it's too agile for its size/class. A decrease in agility and an increase in cargo space would probably be more appropriate.
>wraith - hornet - prom, that would be 3 ships. All with the same
>weaponsetup and only a small difference in the rest.
>If you do alter it then in reallity you would just be making the hornet into
>a worse wraith because of its sizedifference then the wraith is for the
>moment. And in the end the wraith will be nerved completely. Just look
I think you mean "nerfed". But no, it wouldn't be nerfed. It has more cargo space than the Hornet. Again, I'd like to ask that you compare the Warthog and the Atlas. I don't know why you're ignoring those two in this debate, but I'm essentially asking for the same type of setup. Yes, the two will have the same weapon ports, BUT one is meant for trading and the other is meant for fighting. They differ in role.
>centaur is sufficient to do this. Dont forget, the big weakness of the
>hornet is because it is a big target, it has the same problem as the
>prom. But for the rest it is all right. And the wobble about what you are
No, the weakness is not its size. It's not too hard to dodge missiles, rockets, or energy weapons with it. The heavy/heavy combo gives you just enough agility to avoid all that. The problem lies in aiming the weapons. Which leads to the next topic that you're about to bring up...
>taling so much, yes it does wobble, and yes it irritating at times, but
>after a while youll get used to it and youll start shooting before it comes
>to a complete stop and still hit him because you yourselve made the
>small adjustement to the aiming.
It's more than irritating. At times it's even impossible. When someone is blasting away with rockets, gatling gun fire, or gauss cannon fire, you need to dodge constantly. You literally have to stand still or slow down to aim with the Hornet, which would obviously lead to death. The wobble right now throws your aim off by a lot.
>The reason why people are contineously posting about ships is
>because they cant look farther then their nose is long. They dont see
>that it isnt the ship that is unbalanced but it are some of the weapons
>that arent completely balanced to the other weapons yet. for instance.
That's a pretty bold statement you're making there. So what you're saying is the majority of players here are short sighted? That seems more inflammatory than factual. As beta testers we should be encouraged to offer suggestions to make the game more fun. Sometimes a problem requires more than one "fix" or idea for a solution. While you may disagree, you still have to respect the views of others.
>swarms: ineffective at medium distance and you can boost away.
>advanced gatling: ineffective at medium- long distance, so you can
>dodge them and use a ship with a higher hull/agility to your advantage
>and come in, shoot something that keeps the person busy pepper him
>with a couple of gausshots or rockets go out and rinse and repeat.
The purpose of these weapons are to keep fighters away from your ship. They're not meant to kill fighters. They're simply defensive tools that force your opponents to stay back. It's necessary for any low agility or wobbly ship to have these defenses to stay alive. Raising the hull to 90 trillion or slapping a gazillion more S-ports on a ship won't help your aiming one bit.
>My reason why I dont want to change the hornet is because I like the
>hornet as it is. It can dish out damage fast, it has for once something
>else then a mixture of large ports and small ports for a medium agility
You were the very same person who told me that I'm making suggestions based on my personal needs. Yet here you are saying that you like things to be your way. My main interest here is to help balance the Hornet out without ruining its role. Yes, it can dish out damage fast... but it's kind of useless when it can't hit anything!
>ship. I do admit that I dont use the hornet that much because I prefer
>the vult because its easier to dodge flares in. But if I need to kill a
>wraith/warthog then the honret would be my ship of choice. It has no
>chance against a vult or a valk because these ships can make circles
>around a hornet and the hornet is so big that it turns so slowly.
I used to use the Hornet almost religiously. Now I use the Warthog, because it's the next best thing that can keep me alive now. Nevertheless, if you want to be in my shoes I'd like to ask that you use the Hornet for a full week without switching to any other ship. You may argue that you switch ships depending on the role. That's fine, I don't care about that. For the sake of testing, however, ALL I'm asking is that you fly around for it for a full week and TRY TO STAY ALIVE with it in the presence of enemy Valkyries and Vultures. Then come back and tell me it's fine without an L-port.
>For crying out loud, if you fly a hornet, then dont expect to live a long
>life against any dedicated fighter ship. If you fly a vult and encounter a
>heavy with swarms and they ran you in your face dont expect to live a
>long live , but expect to run and let him waste his swarms or just run
>and grab another ship or wait on someone with a better ship to take out
>that sort of ship.
That's what I'm trying to prove here. That the Hornet is incapable of defending itself. As I said before, it shouldn't be an advanced fighter killer, but it should at least chase them away to a farther distance so that they can't pick you off so easily. That's what the L-port is for.
And players should NOT be forced to switch ships, especially in a game that's aspiring to be an MMORPG. The point of role-playing is to choose a character or role and to act it out. If you require the player to switch ships every three seconds for every new enemy you encounter, you ruin that continuity and make the game more frustrating/boring. You might as well change it into a card or dice-rolling game of chance.
>PS: taking away the hornet would kill the customisation of 4 small
>weapons and just add another 2 gauss , 1 swarm combo.
Vendetta is far from being finished. What makes you think there won't be any 4 S-port ships in the future? Why the sudden panic? In my opinion the Hornet's role does not work well with 4 S-ports. However, it may for another ship in the future.
>anyway. If you dont believe me, then please ask a dev to confirm, but
>I seriously dont recal a wraith receiving an increase in agility.
That's okay. In any case I still feel it's too agile for its size/class. A decrease in agility and an increase in cargo space would probably be more appropriate.
>wraith - hornet - prom, that would be 3 ships. All with the same
>weaponsetup and only a small difference in the rest.
>If you do alter it then in reallity you would just be making the hornet into
>a worse wraith because of its sizedifference then the wraith is for the
>moment. And in the end the wraith will be nerved completely. Just look
I think you mean "nerfed". But no, it wouldn't be nerfed. It has more cargo space than the Hornet. Again, I'd like to ask that you compare the Warthog and the Atlas. I don't know why you're ignoring those two in this debate, but I'm essentially asking for the same type of setup. Yes, the two will have the same weapon ports, BUT one is meant for trading and the other is meant for fighting. They differ in role.
>centaur is sufficient to do this. Dont forget, the big weakness of the
>hornet is because it is a big target, it has the same problem as the
>prom. But for the rest it is all right. And the wobble about what you are
No, the weakness is not its size. It's not too hard to dodge missiles, rockets, or energy weapons with it. The heavy/heavy combo gives you just enough agility to avoid all that. The problem lies in aiming the weapons. Which leads to the next topic that you're about to bring up...
>taling so much, yes it does wobble, and yes it irritating at times, but
>after a while youll get used to it and youll start shooting before it comes
>to a complete stop and still hit him because you yourselve made the
>small adjustement to the aiming.
It's more than irritating. At times it's even impossible. When someone is blasting away with rockets, gatling gun fire, or gauss cannon fire, you need to dodge constantly. You literally have to stand still or slow down to aim with the Hornet, which would obviously lead to death. The wobble right now throws your aim off by a lot.
>The reason why people are contineously posting about ships is
>because they cant look farther then their nose is long. They dont see
>that it isnt the ship that is unbalanced but it are some of the weapons
>that arent completely balanced to the other weapons yet. for instance.
That's a pretty bold statement you're making there. So what you're saying is the majority of players here are short sighted? That seems more inflammatory than factual. As beta testers we should be encouraged to offer suggestions to make the game more fun. Sometimes a problem requires more than one "fix" or idea for a solution. While you may disagree, you still have to respect the views of others.
>swarms: ineffective at medium distance and you can boost away.
>advanced gatling: ineffective at medium- long distance, so you can
>dodge them and use a ship with a higher hull/agility to your advantage
>and come in, shoot something that keeps the person busy pepper him
>with a couple of gausshots or rockets go out and rinse and repeat.
The purpose of these weapons are to keep fighters away from your ship. They're not meant to kill fighters. They're simply defensive tools that force your opponents to stay back. It's necessary for any low agility or wobbly ship to have these defenses to stay alive. Raising the hull to 90 trillion or slapping a gazillion more S-ports on a ship won't help your aiming one bit.
>My reason why I dont want to change the hornet is because I like the
>hornet as it is. It can dish out damage fast, it has for once something
>else then a mixture of large ports and small ports for a medium agility
You were the very same person who told me that I'm making suggestions based on my personal needs. Yet here you are saying that you like things to be your way. My main interest here is to help balance the Hornet out without ruining its role. Yes, it can dish out damage fast... but it's kind of useless when it can't hit anything!
>ship. I do admit that I dont use the hornet that much because I prefer
>the vult because its easier to dodge flares in. But if I need to kill a
>wraith/warthog then the honret would be my ship of choice. It has no
>chance against a vult or a valk because these ships can make circles
>around a hornet and the hornet is so big that it turns so slowly.
I used to use the Hornet almost religiously. Now I use the Warthog, because it's the next best thing that can keep me alive now. Nevertheless, if you want to be in my shoes I'd like to ask that you use the Hornet for a full week without switching to any other ship. You may argue that you switch ships depending on the role. That's fine, I don't care about that. For the sake of testing, however, ALL I'm asking is that you fly around for it for a full week and TRY TO STAY ALIVE with it in the presence of enemy Valkyries and Vultures. Then come back and tell me it's fine without an L-port.
>For crying out loud, if you fly a hornet, then dont expect to live a long
>life against any dedicated fighter ship. If you fly a vult and encounter a
>heavy with swarms and they ran you in your face dont expect to live a
>long live , but expect to run and let him waste his swarms or just run
>and grab another ship or wait on someone with a better ship to take out
>that sort of ship.
That's what I'm trying to prove here. That the Hornet is incapable of defending itself. As I said before, it shouldn't be an advanced fighter killer, but it should at least chase them away to a farther distance so that they can't pick you off so easily. That's what the L-port is for.
And players should NOT be forced to switch ships, especially in a game that's aspiring to be an MMORPG. The point of role-playing is to choose a character or role and to act it out. If you require the player to switch ships every three seconds for every new enemy you encounter, you ruin that continuity and make the game more frustrating/boring. You might as well change it into a card or dice-rolling game of chance.
>PS: taking away the hornet would kill the customisation of 4 small
>weapons and just add another 2 gauss , 1 swarm combo.
Vendetta is far from being finished. What makes you think there won't be any 4 S-port ships in the future? Why the sudden panic? In my opinion the Hornet's role does not work well with 4 S-ports. However, it may for another ship in the future.
Arolte wants to give the Hornet a L port. Ignore him. He has wanted this since 3.2.0. I do believe his very first post after the 3.2 release was a "Waah! My hornet isn't as good as it used to be in 3.1 when all ship had all weapons!". The devs haven't given in since then, and they won't now. They -know- that giving the Hornet one L port would make the ships too homogeneous. They -know- what the future of Vendetta is (once they get a1k0n out of that darned trash truck :D ). The rest of us, unlike Arolte-who-is-on-a-break, know that the Hornet is one of the most used ships. The rest of us -know- that a quad-flare hornet can deal out 6000 damage per shot, and can kill just about any ship in 2 shots. The rest of us -know- that the 4S ports make the hornet plenty powerful. Some of us (ie: me) have no idea what the "wobbling" is because they don't get it. Some of us have dodged many a weaponshot in a hornet, and find quad-rails to be quite fun, even though you need a Medium or Heavy battery and recharge takes forever. But Arolte either doesn't -know- these things, or doesn't acknowledge them. So, let's just all not acknowledge -him- for the time being.
<< Any typos in this post? Too bad!
<< Any typos in this post? Too bad!
No typos. The biggest mistake is that you are attacking Arolte rather than his argument.
I did both! :P I attacked his arguement by mentioning the various stats that I mentioned. What attacked Arolte is -how- I mentioned those various stats. For example, the "1L port would make the ships too homogeneous" attacks his arguement. But the "They -know-" part attacks Arolte.
Besides, aren't you tired of reading 400 "Improve the Hornet" threads yet?
Besides, aren't you tired of reading 400 "Improve the Hornet" threads yet?
actually uncledave :D
I equip a double gauss on my prom and my large slot has a swarm to deter people that fly to close to my liking.
I know, it isnt perfect, but a prom isnt supposed to be a perfect all round ship. It goes down difficult, and it is much better in every case.
I didnt want to involve this arolte :D, but here you have it, the agility, yes I said the big no no word :D is more then adequate and maybe even on par with a hornet. I am sure though that it is better then the wraith.
And giving the prom so much leverage above any heavy gunship as you may call it would be to much.
But maybe you are right uncle, but then there wont be any difference between a centaur and a prom, except 4 cargo pods. But I know for sure that I would prefer a prom above the centaur in any case. But maybe tha tis th eidea, I dont know.
PS: arolte, if the hornet gets an extra 2k hull, and you keep the rest, im sure it would be sufficient. Dont forget, the hornet is a supportship and very versatile because of the 4 small slots.
People will love the ability to put 2 rockets on it and 2 gemini, or 2 gausses and 2 gemini or 2 tachs a gauss and a gemini, or 4 sunflares or 4 gemini or ... .
Im sure of that.
Besides, ever tried shooting down defence ships in a hornet? I have to say, the hornet rocks, 4 rockettubes, and 1 dead vulture :D
So tha tmeans that you can kill a max of 16 defence ships, if you are unlucky 8. In my opinion as a supprtship, that can count.
PS: I know because I did so, I have to admit, it isnt very perfect at dodging because of it being so large, but it completes the job, and with an additional 2 k it will be perfect.
And with the reduced shotrepeat of the rockets, it is still able to dodge rammers quite well.
I equip a double gauss on my prom and my large slot has a swarm to deter people that fly to close to my liking.
I know, it isnt perfect, but a prom isnt supposed to be a perfect all round ship. It goes down difficult, and it is much better in every case.
I didnt want to involve this arolte :D, but here you have it, the agility, yes I said the big no no word :D is more then adequate and maybe even on par with a hornet. I am sure though that it is better then the wraith.
And giving the prom so much leverage above any heavy gunship as you may call it would be to much.
But maybe you are right uncle, but then there wont be any difference between a centaur and a prom, except 4 cargo pods. But I know for sure that I would prefer a prom above the centaur in any case. But maybe tha tis th eidea, I dont know.
PS: arolte, if the hornet gets an extra 2k hull, and you keep the rest, im sure it would be sufficient. Dont forget, the hornet is a supportship and very versatile because of the 4 small slots.
People will love the ability to put 2 rockets on it and 2 gemini, or 2 gausses and 2 gemini or 2 tachs a gauss and a gemini, or 4 sunflares or 4 gemini or ... .
Im sure of that.
Besides, ever tried shooting down defence ships in a hornet? I have to say, the hornet rocks, 4 rockettubes, and 1 dead vulture :D
So tha tmeans that you can kill a max of 16 defence ships, if you are unlucky 8. In my opinion as a supprtship, that can count.
PS: I know because I did so, I have to admit, it isnt very perfect at dodging because of it being so large, but it completes the job, and with an additional 2 k it will be perfect.
And with the reduced shotrepeat of the rockets, it is still able to dodge rammers quite well.
You really have to question the logic of having 4 S-ports on the Hornet though. Why are they there? What is a low agility fighter doing with all S-ports? The truth is, S-port weapons have horrible autoaim, with the exception of the Gauss cannon which I believe needs some serious tweaking. Giving a low agility fighter S-ports exclusively is asking for trouble.
You really have to question why a Warthog has higher maneuverability AND can equip an advanced gatling gun, when the Hornet is stuck with lower agility and weapons that have poor auto-aiming capabilities. The way the reticule wobbles like crazy on a Hornet just begs for a gatling turret as a way of compensation.
Giving it 1 L-port and 2 S-ports is a fair compromise IMO. There needs to be a ship that's one step above the Warthog. I'm not seeing that right now. The Hornet would take that spot perfectly. One additional S-port can in fact make a huge difference between the Warthog and Hornet, but my main argument here is that the L-port is needed to help defend the Hornet.
As for the Marauder, I wasn't too sure. I can see how it needs mines, but I agree that it might be too powerful with anything above that. I wouldn't mind having that ship left alone for now. Not too many people are complaining about it yet.
As for the Prometheus, it's true that it can beat a Ragnarok. However, if it were up against a fighter it would be an easy kill. I think it can afford to have it's hull lowered at the expense of an extra L-port, so that it'll truly be a special gunship. Think of it as a super Centaur, but without all the extra cargo space.
You really have to question why a Warthog has higher maneuverability AND can equip an advanced gatling gun, when the Hornet is stuck with lower agility and weapons that have poor auto-aiming capabilities. The way the reticule wobbles like crazy on a Hornet just begs for a gatling turret as a way of compensation.
Giving it 1 L-port and 2 S-ports is a fair compromise IMO. There needs to be a ship that's one step above the Warthog. I'm not seeing that right now. The Hornet would take that spot perfectly. One additional S-port can in fact make a huge difference between the Warthog and Hornet, but my main argument here is that the L-port is needed to help defend the Hornet.
As for the Marauder, I wasn't too sure. I can see how it needs mines, but I agree that it might be too powerful with anything above that. I wouldn't mind having that ship left alone for now. Not too many people are complaining about it yet.
As for the Prometheus, it's true that it can beat a Ragnarok. However, if it were up against a fighter it would be an easy kill. I think it can afford to have it's hull lowered at the expense of an extra L-port, so that it'll truly be a special gunship. Think of it as a super Centaur, but without all the extra cargo space.
I think one S port should go, and one L port should be added. Add 2000 hull, and there you have a *bomber* that is special.
At the moment, the prom uses not its L port but its 2 S ports to deal the damage, with sunflares. Taking off an S port and adding an L port wont actually boost it that much- rather taking power and adding defense to what is supposed to be a heavily armored bomber... instead, its armor is a mere 2k above the other "heavy" ships.
At the moment, the prom uses not its L port but its 2 S ports to deal the damage, with sunflares. Taking off an S port and adding an L port wont actually boost it that much- rather taking power and adding defense to what is supposed to be a heavily armored bomber... instead, its armor is a mere 2k above the other "heavy" ships.
Personally, I think that the Prometheus and the Ragnarok should switch loadouts. I mean, is it right that the most brute-force reckless, aggressive, warlike people have the second-best bomber? It's very, very Serco to stand and blast ridiculous amounts of sheer firepower at someone. Maybe the answer's not just in ships, either. Say, an Itani accessory that cloaks you for 20 seconds at the cost of draining your battery? A Serco accessory that's simply 5-inch-thick armored plating, and takes a quarter off your turn speed? A Neutral accessory that adds 5 cargo capacity, and fits into the large port? I dunno. I'm tired.
Warthog - 1 L-port, 1 S-port
Hornet - 1 L-port, 2 S-ports
Atlas - 1 L-port, 1 S-port
Wraith - 1 L-port, 2 S-ports
actually not arolte.
I would chose the wraith any time above the hornet. In my opinion it are the 4 small ports that give the hornet its attractiveness.
Besides, with the warthog, i wouldnt even look at the hornet if they have +- the same loadout.
Marauder: 1 L-port 2, 2 S-ports
Prometheus: 2 L-ports, 2 S-ports
Centaur: 2 L-ports, 2 S-ports
Ragnarok: 2 L-prorts, 3 S-ports
marauder: dependant what you can put in the lport2 yes or no. I wouldnt like to see a marauder with a 2 sunflares and 1 jackhammer, it would be any ships nemesis :(. If it are only minetypes, then maybe, but you are making an extra class of large ports and tha tis never a great idea towards customisation.
Next: The prom, For the moment it rules the heavy ships. Ever tried fighting a rag in a prom? I did and you can be sure that it kills it at every turn. Even with that increased firepower of the rag.
If I wasnt that loyal towards itani, I would have gone to the serco, just for the big kickass prometheus. Yes, I know it has weaknesses, like for instanc eit is a sucker for gausses, but for the rest it is a very good ship, and in my opinion still very special. It might benefit from 2k extra hull, but for the moment, the prom is a really nice ship. And if I were a trader, it would be my second tradingship, even before the centaur. or the atlas.
cheers
Hornet - 1 L-port, 2 S-ports
Atlas - 1 L-port, 1 S-port
Wraith - 1 L-port, 2 S-ports
actually not arolte.
I would chose the wraith any time above the hornet. In my opinion it are the 4 small ports that give the hornet its attractiveness.
Besides, with the warthog, i wouldnt even look at the hornet if they have +- the same loadout.
Marauder: 1 L-port 2, 2 S-ports
Prometheus: 2 L-ports, 2 S-ports
Centaur: 2 L-ports, 2 S-ports
Ragnarok: 2 L-prorts, 3 S-ports
marauder: dependant what you can put in the lport2 yes or no. I wouldnt like to see a marauder with a 2 sunflares and 1 jackhammer, it would be any ships nemesis :(. If it are only minetypes, then maybe, but you are making an extra class of large ports and tha tis never a great idea towards customisation.
Next: The prom, For the moment it rules the heavy ships. Ever tried fighting a rag in a prom? I did and you can be sure that it kills it at every turn. Even with that increased firepower of the rag.
If I wasnt that loyal towards itani, I would have gone to the serco, just for the big kickass prometheus. Yes, I know it has weaknesses, like for instanc eit is a sucker for gausses, but for the rest it is a very good ship, and in my opinion still very special. It might benefit from 2k extra hull, but for the moment, the prom is a really nice ship. And if I were a trader, it would be my second tradingship, even before the centaur. or the atlas.
cheers
I've been thinking long and hard about possible ship revisions that'll help balance the gameplay of Vendetta. And I PROMISE, I won't whine about agility this time. Vendetta right now doesn't offer much of a smooth transition between ship classes. And that's what I think is key in balancing the ships out. Probably the easiest way to evenly distribute the ships out is to look at the availability of weapon ports.
Let's go over the ship classes and see if anything needs to be done...
Group 1:
EC-88 - 1 S-port
Group 1 is where newbies start off. With 1 S-port weapon, it doesn't get any simpler. Nothing much to say here in terms of revisions.
Group 2:
Centurion - 1 S-port
Vulture - 2 S-ports
Valkyrie - 3 S-ports
Group 2 is the light fighter class. You see the progression from 1 S-port to 3 S-ports. It can't get any more organized than this. Let's move along.
Group 3:
Warthog - 1 L-port, 1 S-port
Hornet - 4 S-ports
Atlas - 1 L-port, 1 S-port
Wraith - 1 L-port, 2 S-ports
Group 3 is the heavy fighter and gunship class. Whoah! What's going on here? We went from having 1 L-port + 1 S-port to having 4 S-ports? This may be where the problem with the Hornet lies. It may not be about agility at all, but rather weapon availability. The medium agility of the Hornet is begging for a gatling turret, not four gauss cannons or gravitons!
What I think would be a good revision to the Hornet would be to offer it 1 L-port and 2 S-ports (that's minus 1 S-port, folks). It'll be one step above the Warthog, but not as agile. That's what I mean when I talk about smooth transitions. And as you can see, the pattern of transition continues from the Atlas and into the Wraith.
To recap...
Group 3 (Revised):
Warthog - 1 L-port, 1 S-port
Hornet - 1 L-port, 2 S-ports
Atlas - 1 L-port, 1 S-port
Wraith - 1 L-port, 2 S-ports
Now doesn't that look better?
Group 4:
Marauder - 3 S-ports
Prometheus - 1 L-port, 2 S-ports
Centurion - 2 L-ports, 2 S-ports (???)
Ragnarok - 2 L-ports, 3 S-ports
Group 4 is the heavy bomber or transport class. This one's a little tricky. The Prometheus went under a few changes, from being too strong to being too weak. Today it remains on the weak side. What I think it would benefit from is the addition of an L-port, perhaps for mines. As a special, it needs to remain powerful. Yet somehow it looks more like an armored wraith than a true bomber. The Ragnarok puts the Prometheus to shame when it comes to firepower, and I think that's something that needs to be looked into.
The Marauder may also need to have the center S-port be replaced to allow for mines. As a special trade ship it needs to be able to cover it's back with mines or a gatling turret, not have a regurgitation of the Valk's 3 S-port configuration! 1 L-port and 2 S-ports will be more adequate for its role.
To recap...
Group 4:
Marauder: 1 L-port 2, 2 S-ports
Prometheus: 2 L-ports, 2 S-ports
Centaur: 2 L-ports, 2 S-ports
Ragnarok: 2 L-prorts, 3 S-ports
Now we have a smoother transition between the ships again. The Prometheus can finally be a worthy opponent again. And the Marauder can defend itself against pirates by placing mines down the center of its fuselage. Traders rejoice!
As you can see with this revision there won't be anymore unpredictable bumps between ship classes. You again additional weapon ports as you go up in the tier system, but at the expense of some other characteristic such as agility or armor. Rather than debating about agility and armor repeatedly, it might be wiser to focus on giving these ships the right weapons to begin with. Giving a heavy ship S-ports only or a light ship L-ports only doesn't do a lot of good for balance at all!
Let's go over the ship classes and see if anything needs to be done...
Group 1:
EC-88 - 1 S-port
Group 1 is where newbies start off. With 1 S-port weapon, it doesn't get any simpler. Nothing much to say here in terms of revisions.
Group 2:
Centurion - 1 S-port
Vulture - 2 S-ports
Valkyrie - 3 S-ports
Group 2 is the light fighter class. You see the progression from 1 S-port to 3 S-ports. It can't get any more organized than this. Let's move along.
Group 3:
Warthog - 1 L-port, 1 S-port
Hornet - 4 S-ports
Atlas - 1 L-port, 1 S-port
Wraith - 1 L-port, 2 S-ports
Group 3 is the heavy fighter and gunship class. Whoah! What's going on here? We went from having 1 L-port + 1 S-port to having 4 S-ports? This may be where the problem with the Hornet lies. It may not be about agility at all, but rather weapon availability. The medium agility of the Hornet is begging for a gatling turret, not four gauss cannons or gravitons!
What I think would be a good revision to the Hornet would be to offer it 1 L-port and 2 S-ports (that's minus 1 S-port, folks). It'll be one step above the Warthog, but not as agile. That's what I mean when I talk about smooth transitions. And as you can see, the pattern of transition continues from the Atlas and into the Wraith.
To recap...
Group 3 (Revised):
Warthog - 1 L-port, 1 S-port
Hornet - 1 L-port, 2 S-ports
Atlas - 1 L-port, 1 S-port
Wraith - 1 L-port, 2 S-ports
Now doesn't that look better?
Group 4:
Marauder - 3 S-ports
Prometheus - 1 L-port, 2 S-ports
Centurion - 2 L-ports, 2 S-ports (???)
Ragnarok - 2 L-ports, 3 S-ports
Group 4 is the heavy bomber or transport class. This one's a little tricky. The Prometheus went under a few changes, from being too strong to being too weak. Today it remains on the weak side. What I think it would benefit from is the addition of an L-port, perhaps for mines. As a special, it needs to remain powerful. Yet somehow it looks more like an armored wraith than a true bomber. The Ragnarok puts the Prometheus to shame when it comes to firepower, and I think that's something that needs to be looked into.
The Marauder may also need to have the center S-port be replaced to allow for mines. As a special trade ship it needs to be able to cover it's back with mines or a gatling turret, not have a regurgitation of the Valk's 3 S-port configuration! 1 L-port and 2 S-ports will be more adequate for its role.
To recap...
Group 4:
Marauder: 1 L-port 2, 2 S-ports
Prometheus: 2 L-ports, 2 S-ports
Centaur: 2 L-ports, 2 S-ports
Ragnarok: 2 L-prorts, 3 S-ports
Now we have a smoother transition between the ships again. The Prometheus can finally be a worthy opponent again. And the Marauder can defend itself against pirates by placing mines down the center of its fuselage. Traders rejoice!
As you can see with this revision there won't be anymore unpredictable bumps between ship classes. You again additional weapon ports as you go up in the tier system, but at the expense of some other characteristic such as agility or armor. Rather than debating about agility and armor repeatedly, it might be wiser to focus on giving these ships the right weapons to begin with. Giving a heavy ship S-ports only or a light ship L-ports only doesn't do a lot of good for balance at all!
The hornet is a small port ship. Leave it alone. The others are large port ships. Leave that fact alone (although upping the number of ports might not hurt).
Shush. Always have to have last word in.
/me pretends to lock the thread
/me pretends to lock the thread