Forums » Suggestions
Readjust Ship Top Speeds/Thrusts
As brought up in another thread by Bojan, back in the good ol' days, ships used to turbo to 240m/s. Over the last decade we've been through several suggestions to reimplement this: Incarnate has made it clear he has no plans to revisit this decision, which is all fine and good, but...
When ship turbo speeds were neutered, they were capped - not readjusted. Every ship brought into production before 2005 was based around the limit of 240m/s, not 220/225m/s. This has muddled the lines between class distinctions of ships. Before, "interceptors" like the Valkyrie and the SVG were true interceptors - they had not only the thrust, but the raw speed to actually intercept, say something like a TPG Atlas.
Now, instead of a varied range of speeds each lending to niches and advancement levels, virtually all ships travel at 220m/s with only acceleration as the main factor to differentiate between them. What I suggest is: looking over every ship stat and adjusting their top speed and thrust N to come into line with what they were originally.
Yes, not a small suggestion. Perhaps even ten years too late, but with all the r̶e̶c̶e̶n̶t̶ ̶t̶a̶l̶k̶ ̶o̶f̶ never ending argument about running, how to run, and where to run, this may help mitigate it some. Also, VO just felt more well-rounded and complete. I've always felt that knocking down the top turbo speeds of ships by 20m/s and not readjusting the rest felt like a half measure, that frankly left the game feeling less fun.
My two cents.
When ship turbo speeds were neutered, they were capped - not readjusted. Every ship brought into production before 2005 was based around the limit of 240m/s, not 220/225m/s. This has muddled the lines between class distinctions of ships. Before, "interceptors" like the Valkyrie and the SVG were true interceptors - they had not only the thrust, but the raw speed to actually intercept, say something like a TPG Atlas.
Now, instead of a varied range of speeds each lending to niches and advancement levels, virtually all ships travel at 220m/s with only acceleration as the main factor to differentiate between them. What I suggest is: looking over every ship stat and adjusting their top speed and thrust N to come into line with what they were originally.
Yes, not a small suggestion. Perhaps even ten years too late, but with all the r̶e̶c̶e̶n̶t̶ ̶t̶a̶l̶k̶ ̶o̶f̶ never ending argument about running, how to run, and where to run, this may help mitigate it some. Also, VO just felt more well-rounded and complete. I've always felt that knocking down the top turbo speeds of ships by 20m/s and not readjusting the rest felt like a half measure, that frankly left the game feeling less fun.
My two cents.
If it's just adjusting ship stats then +1. Too bad it will just lead to more arguments.
Kudos for identifying the core problem and posting this A-Dawg.
+1
+1
+1
This is a problem. I always found it somewhat funny that an atlas can outrun most "interceptors".
One thing I must say is that it wold have been silly to drop the speeds linearly. Dropping a ship that travels 160m/s to 140m/s wouldn't have done any good either.
Considering that 20 is about 8% of 240, we can say that the fastest ships' top speeds were dropped by 8%.
Let's just go ahead and drop the rest of ship speeds by 20%, and maybe do some near-ten rounding to make the number look good.
Funny, cause piracy GREATLY declined shortly after this change took place...tell tale maybe?
This is a problem. I always found it somewhat funny that an atlas can outrun most "interceptors".
One thing I must say is that it wold have been silly to drop the speeds linearly. Dropping a ship that travels 160m/s to 140m/s wouldn't have done any good either.
Considering that 20 is about 8% of 240, we can say that the fastest ships' top speeds were dropped by 8%.
Let's just go ahead and drop the rest of ship speeds by 20%, and maybe do some near-ten rounding to make the number look good.
Funny, cause piracy GREATLY declined shortly after this change took place...tell tale maybe?
+1
Adjusting the top speeds would really be a gameplay improvement.
Adjusting the top speeds would really be a gameplay improvement.
+1
Yes please.
Someone should make a recommdation list.
*looks at rin*
*looks at rin*
ships used to turbo to 240m/s
Huh?
Edit: After a bit of searching, it seems that at least bits of this are actually true! Apparently, for a brief period of time between engines and current speeds, ships went pretty darn fast. Of course, the reasons for the change isn't (just) what newbs think it is. And, of course, the consensus of the time was just as strongly in favor of making the change. Except, back then, it was voiced with opinions and arguments, instead of +1's. And, of course, back then, the suggestions referenced actual, current things, instead of some vague impression of how things were in your first few months in a game ten years ago.
(To be fair to your claims, it does seem that top speeds really were actually just chopped off the fastest ships. Although apparently not valks. Or something.)
Huh?
Edit: After a bit of searching, it seems that at least bits of this are actually true! Apparently, for a brief period of time between engines and current speeds, ships went pretty darn fast. Of course, the reasons for the change isn't (just) what newbs think it is. And, of course, the consensus of the time was just as strongly in favor of making the change. Except, back then, it was voiced with opinions and arguments, instead of +1's. And, of course, back then, the suggestions referenced actual, current things, instead of some vague impression of how things were in your first few months in a game ten years ago.
(To be fair to your claims, it does seem that top speeds really were actually just chopped off the fastest ships. Although apparently not valks. Or something.)
I've lost count of how many times an intelligent speed adjustment, to fix the usual slap-dash VO approach, has been suggested...but +1 then, +1 now.
A cap at whatever rate is understandable, though everything below it should be lowered accordingly.
+1
+1
Wow, great to see there's a general consensus on this.
Going off of Darth's calculations of an 8% drop, that would mean the new max speed for most base-model ships would be 200m/s. Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't ships originally ascend in top speed based on their version numbers?
While I'd love to make a recommendation list to give a more detailed picture on adjusted speeds, does anyone have the original stats of ships from pre-2005? It would be a great time-saver.
Going off of Darth's calculations of an 8% drop, that would mean the new max speed for most base-model ships would be 200m/s. Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't ships originally ascend in top speed based on their version numbers?
While I'd love to make a recommendation list to give a more detailed picture on adjusted speeds, does anyone have the original stats of ships from pre-2005? It would be a great time-saver.
Here's a older wiki page from 2005 / 2006 with the ship stats. Thanks to the Wayback Machine. ;)
https://web.archive.org/web/20060324165150/http://www.vo-wiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Ships
That's about as far back as I could find, and this page was pulled from the Sept 9th 2005 snapshot.
Oh, and +1.
https://web.archive.org/web/20060324165150/http://www.vo-wiki.com/wiki/index.php?title=Ships
That's about as far back as I could find, and this page was pulled from the Sept 9th 2005 snapshot.
Oh, and +1.
+1
Part of the problem is that I don't have the stats from pre-2005. The game configuration parameters were not in revision control (obviously the archive.org link is post-change, as the vultures do like 240m/s).
I welcome further feedback on this topic, and I am open to changing numbers. The big, explosively controversial question is.. what to change the numbers to. Doing an 8% drop to most parameters isn't hard, but then there's the top-speed issue. And yes, they used to ascend in top speed by variant (Mk2, Mk3, etc). There were more clear-cut roles for ships with the old numbers, and there was some inherent factional variation as well, all of which leads to.. controversy and accusations of factional bias.
I agree that it was better before. I wished I had the original numbers back in 2005. Anyway, I welcome continued discussion.
I welcome further feedback on this topic, and I am open to changing numbers. The big, explosively controversial question is.. what to change the numbers to. Doing an 8% drop to most parameters isn't hard, but then there's the top-speed issue. And yes, they used to ascend in top speed by variant (Mk2, Mk3, etc). There were more clear-cut roles for ships with the old numbers, and there was some inherent factional variation as well, all of which leads to.. controversy and accusations of factional bias.
I agree that it was better before. I wished I had the original numbers back in 2005. Anyway, I welcome continued discussion.
Actually ships topped out at 250
The WTD went 250, it had horrid drain but it could hit that speed so fast that it still went insanely far in the time it took to empty the tank
Damn it was great
But yea , I know the current limit exists cause the game is so crippled that higher speeds break it so a reshuffling of ships up to the current limit would be good
+1
The WTD went 250, it had horrid drain but it could hit that speed so fast that it still went insanely far in the time it took to empty the tank
Damn it was great
But yea , I know the current limit exists cause the game is so crippled that higher speeds break it so a reshuffling of ships up to the current limit would be good
+1
Perhaps all the ships should be redone from the top down. There is math on the ship specs that just isn't translating.
I did a quick test of the new SVG & Corvus hound:
Hound with UC 5,000kg Mass, 190 Thrust - 0-225 11.40 seconds
SVG UC, 2 Neuts 5,000kg Mass, 235 Thrust - 0-225 16.18 seconds
The way I understand it the higher Thrust ship should accelerate faster correct?
We now know what the top speed a ship can have and not break the game so instead of fixing a ship here or a ship there it seems that all the ship specs should be re-done with the new Top Speed ceiling in mind and that would level the playing field across the board.
I know this is a a bigger undertaking than it sounds like but in the long run if all the ships are redone to bring them back inline with their expected purpose it may increase the fun and force ppl to learn or develop new tactics.
Also +1
I did a quick test of the new SVG & Corvus hound:
Hound with UC 5,000kg Mass, 190 Thrust - 0-225 11.40 seconds
SVG UC, 2 Neuts 5,000kg Mass, 235 Thrust - 0-225 16.18 seconds
The way I understand it the higher Thrust ship should accelerate faster correct?
We now know what the top speed a ship can have and not break the game so instead of fixing a ship here or a ship there it seems that all the ship specs should be re-done with the new Top Speed ceiling in mind and that would level the playing field across the board.
I know this is a a bigger undertaking than it sounds like but in the long run if all the ships are redone to bring them back inline with their expected purpose it may increase the fun and force ppl to learn or develop new tactics.
Also +1
"Perhaps all the ships should be redone from the top down. There is math on the ship specs that just isn't translating."
Actually it's fine, you just made an error. You were looking at the normal thrust, but you were measuring turbo so you should have been using the turbo thrust. The Hound's turbo thrust is 450 N, and the SVG's is 260 N. So yeah, it is totally expected that the Hound reaches top turbo speed faster.
Actually it's fine, you just made an error. You were looking at the normal thrust, but you were measuring turbo so you should have been using the turbo thrust. The Hound's turbo thrust is 450 N, and the SVG's is 260 N. So yeah, it is totally expected that the Hound reaches top turbo speed faster.
Ahh my bad