Forums » Suggestions
Unfair Council Rules
I've been playing Vendetta for a a couple years and I'm starting to think its extremely unfair that people who don't pay for a monthly subscription aren't able to become a council member in a guild. What are your thoughts on this guys. And if any DEV'a read this please give me an explanation why or at least talk to me about compromises. Because this game is unfair in the set of rules. I understand about not being able to go over the 4 in licenses. But come on.
How is it unfair that people who do more to support the game get more out of the game?
If anything, it's unfair that you get to play at all when all you do is mooch. Do you think servers are free? It costs the devs money to run the game, and the more people who play, the more the game costs them. Who pays for all of this? The subscribers. So how is it fair that I'm paying for you to play the game? What have you ever done for me?
If anything, it's unfair that you get to play at all when all you do is mooch. Do you think servers are free? It costs the devs money to run the game, and the more people who play, the more the game costs them. Who pays for all of this? The subscribers. So how is it fair that I'm paying for you to play the game? What have you ever done for me?
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Rin has a point.
I'd rather be an F2Per not allowed to be an Officer in a Guild than be an Officer who doesn't pay to get a Full Sub
-100
Rin has a point.
I'd rather be an F2Per not allowed to be an Officer in a Guild than be an Officer who doesn't pay to get a Full Sub
-100
Fair to whom?
"fair" to f2p, is only relevant, to the degree it is relevant to paying customers, and the financial concerns of guild software. f2p in isolation from those two considerations has no concept of "fair".
I am not opposing f2p access to guild leadership positions, nor am I supporting it. Nor will I, unless I see an argument that is relevant to paying customers.
How would it benefit paying customers for f2p to hold guild leadership positions?
"fair" to f2p, is only relevant, to the degree it is relevant to paying customers, and the financial concerns of guild software. f2p in isolation from those two considerations has no concept of "fair".
I am not opposing f2p access to guild leadership positions, nor am I supporting it. Nor will I, unless I see an argument that is relevant to paying customers.
How would it benefit paying customers for f2p to hold guild leadership positions?
One potential benefit is in the case of a new guild closing due to lack of council when there are only two or three full subs in the guild. I know this has happened in at least one case and I am fairly certain that guild would be thriving if f2p was allowed to be council. Also, if allowing f2p to be council increases new player retention there is a good chance that a lot of said new players retained will sub in the future. Getting new players into guilds does a lot to keep them around and if a guild closes when it has 10+ members and no council that is a shame.
-1. No. If you want to be in council or hold a LT or Commander position then get a full sub and support the devs.
Why the hell do people think they *deserve* stuff when they don't even pay for the game?
Why the hell do people think they *deserve* stuff when they don't even pay for the game?
+1 for the following reasons:
1. Activity breeds activity and while it does cost GS money to run the servers, they make no money off of players who do not play and do not pay. If we want VO to bring the kind of income it needs to continue to be viable, we need a player base that makes the game appear populated so new players log in to an active game with a vibrant community.
2. Players who pay a lite sub are still paying, and are still capped at level 4. Players who are on free subs should have a method to either purchase the privilege or use crystal to gain the privilege. There should be an option to buy crystal as an in-app purchase.
3. Whether we PC players like it or not, mobile is here to stay. You are not going to monetize the mobile market by treating them like pariahs and you are not going to get them to buy a $10/month subscription for what they consider to be a mobile game.
4. Accounts shifting back and forth from full sub to lite/free sub automatically ejects council members making guild leadership rosters unstable. If a person has paid for a full sub at any point, they should retain the right to a position they earned within a guild.
5. You can actually create a guild with 1 full sub and 9 trial subs. Yes, you can form a guild with only a single subscription and a bunch of temp accounts, but you cannot help form a guild with 9 other real players who are playing on a lite or free sub. The solution isn't to lock down guild leadership more. The solution is to open it up so it can be monetized for lite/free subs.
1. Activity breeds activity and while it does cost GS money to run the servers, they make no money off of players who do not play and do not pay. If we want VO to bring the kind of income it needs to continue to be viable, we need a player base that makes the game appear populated so new players log in to an active game with a vibrant community.
2. Players who pay a lite sub are still paying, and are still capped at level 4. Players who are on free subs should have a method to either purchase the privilege or use crystal to gain the privilege. There should be an option to buy crystal as an in-app purchase.
3. Whether we PC players like it or not, mobile is here to stay. You are not going to monetize the mobile market by treating them like pariahs and you are not going to get them to buy a $10/month subscription for what they consider to be a mobile game.
4. Accounts shifting back and forth from full sub to lite/free sub automatically ejects council members making guild leadership rosters unstable. If a person has paid for a full sub at any point, they should retain the right to a position they earned within a guild.
5. You can actually create a guild with 1 full sub and 9 trial subs. Yes, you can form a guild with only a single subscription and a bunch of temp accounts, but you cannot help form a guild with 9 other real players who are playing on a lite or free sub. The solution isn't to lock down guild leadership more. The solution is to open it up so it can be monetized for lite/free subs.
+1 to Savet
I do not agree with every thing Savet said, but I agree with enough of it to support the position.
edited: clarification that the +1 is to the position presented by Savet.
I do not agree with every thing Savet said, but I agree with enough of it to support the position.
edited: clarification that the +1 is to the position presented by Savet.
I do want to clarify that I was purely addressing the use of the term "unfair", not stating an opinion about the suggestion itself or the existence of free subs. If he had actually provided any reason to support his suggestion besides bogus and insulting claims of unfairness, I'd have bothered to comment on it.
My preference would be to leave free subs as they are, but to open up guild leadership to the Lite sub.
My preference would be to leave free subs as they are, but to open up guild leadership to the Lite sub.
F2P accounts are entitled to whatever the hell the Devs feel like letting them have for free. If all F2P could have was a freebus it would still be "fair". While Savet makes some good points regarding what may be good for the game in general, any F2P player complaining of unfairness needs to put on their big girl panties and get over it. There is a hell of a lot of VO available for F2P, the restrictions are rather generous. You want more out of your game, then cough up the cash and support the game.
The OP claims to have played for "a couple years". If so, then the OP must remember a time when there was no F2P option, and a "premium" sub was the only way to play.
The OP claims to have played for "a couple years". If so, then the OP must remember a time when there was no F2P option, and a "premium" sub was the only way to play.
You can buy Crystal as an in app purchase, you buy it via the play store on Android, and iTunes on Apple. You can buy varying amounts from $1 upwards.
Giving F2P + Lite players more things to spend these Crystals on is a good thing, as it give people more reason to buy them. I agree with most of what Savet said, but especially this:
4. Accounts shifting back and forth from full sub to lite/free sub automatically ejects council members making guild leadership rosters unstable. If a person has paid for a full sub at any point, they should retain the right to a position they earned within a guild.
I've lost a guild twice now simply because I could not afford a full sub for 1 month, so went lite. I lost my commander position, leaving the guild commanderless. Then another player did the same thing, and the guild folded. Thankfully there were enough people online to help recreate this guild, but alas, then it died again for similar reasons. Seems like a bug to me though.
[edit]
It is for this exact reason that if RL needs my money, guild wont be getting that spare dollar. I'll just stay unsubbed till I can next afford to full sub. Ok, it's only $1, but it's $1 they would otherwise have.
Giving F2P + Lite players more things to spend these Crystals on is a good thing, as it give people more reason to buy them. I agree with most of what Savet said, but especially this:
4. Accounts shifting back and forth from full sub to lite/free sub automatically ejects council members making guild leadership rosters unstable. If a person has paid for a full sub at any point, they should retain the right to a position they earned within a guild.
I've lost a guild twice now simply because I could not afford a full sub for 1 month, so went lite. I lost my commander position, leaving the guild commanderless. Then another player did the same thing, and the guild folded. Thankfully there were enough people online to help recreate this guild, but alas, then it died again for similar reasons. Seems like a bug to me though.
[edit]
It is for this exact reason that if RL needs my money, guild wont be getting that spare dollar. I'll just stay unsubbed till I can next afford to full sub. Ok, it's only $1, but it's $1 they would otherwise have.
As it stands currently, a single, full sub, can maintain a guild. A minimum guild is 5 council members. I think that maintaining a guild should require x $ a month.
I would support the following: A lite sub may hold (only) a single council seat, per lite sub.
In this way, a guild will be earning at least $5 a month for GS. And further, there would be no need for restrictions on commander or Lt positions, only council positions.
I would support the following: A lite sub may hold (only) a single council seat, per lite sub.
In this way, a guild will be earning at least $5 a month for GS. And further, there would be no need for restrictions on commander or Lt positions, only council positions.
+1 to Savet.
It's close though, this could be pushing f2p to be too OP - but the guild position shifting thing is too much of a problem. Perhaps a guild could be temporarily inactive while there are noone paying membership? So it wouldn't look like anyone was in the guild, but all the associations were stored somewhere until someone coughs up the cash.
That nicety seems like it might be too complicated to do right now though, considering all the other important things the devs are working on. Easiest would be just to let anyone be a council.
Using crystal to permanently buy council seats is tempting, although it doesn't solve the same problem for the pc payment system.
It's close though, this could be pushing f2p to be too OP - but the guild position shifting thing is too much of a problem. Perhaps a guild could be temporarily inactive while there are noone paying membership? So it wouldn't look like anyone was in the guild, but all the associations were stored somewhere until someone coughs up the cash.
That nicety seems like it might be too complicated to do right now though, considering all the other important things the devs are working on. Easiest would be just to let anyone be a council.
Using crystal to permanently buy council seats is tempting, although it doesn't solve the same problem for the pc payment system.
I've changed my mind on this, +1 to Savet.
Using crystal to permanently buy council seats is tempting, although it doesn't solve the same problem for the pc payment system.
It was already explained well enough but here we go:
If you hold a premium sub and get a council position, cool. That's you set up for life. Account expirations, lite subs etc wont change that. (This is the way it was before all the Android stuff, really)
If you are F2P you must pay some crystal and be promoted to council. Once you are promoted, cool. That's you set up for life. (A dialogue could fire off when you are promoted, stating you have to pay blah crystal or you cannot take the position)
Simple.
[edit]
I would say 100 crystal is a fair amount. You can earn this being actually F2P but if you plan to stick around (guild council members should be interested in sticking around I guess) this will seriously eat into your ship budget.
It was already explained well enough but here we go:
If you hold a premium sub and get a council position, cool. That's you set up for life. Account expirations, lite subs etc wont change that. (This is the way it was before all the Android stuff, really)
If you are F2P you must pay some crystal and be promoted to council. Once you are promoted, cool. That's you set up for life. (A dialogue could fire off when you are promoted, stating you have to pay blah crystal or you cannot take the position)
Simple.
[edit]
I would say 100 crystal is a fair amount. You can earn this being actually F2P but if you plan to stick around (guild council members should be interested in sticking around I guess) this will seriously eat into your ship budget.
@ Roda
You may be able to maintain a guild with 1 account, but you still need 10 individual premium accounts to create one. Also as you can only invite online players, getting all your own alts into a guild, and as council is a lot of work.
You may be able to maintain a guild with 1 account, but you still need 10 individual premium accounts to create one. Also as you can only invite online players, getting all your own alts into a guild, and as council is a lot of work.