Forums » Suggestions

Gravity Well Mine improvment

May 30, 2020 We all float link
Hi Inc and Ray,

This weapon is pretty cool. Would there be a way to cause the weapon to stack? What i mean, is if a pilot hits a pile of 2 of them, that their power cell would have to refresh from a negative value?
May 30, 2020 incarnate link
So basically, you're saying that every negative impact would be cumulative, rather than being clamped at zero? So they would have to re-charge not from zero, but from whatever negative value they hit? Essentially leaving them with no powercell for a period of time?
May 30, 2020 We all float link
Correct
May 31, 2020 Bejebajay link
-1
Realistically speaking, if something like your car battery hits 0, but car is _still_ running, battery charges. Batteries cant have negative amounts of power.
May 31, 2020 incarnate link
"Realistically speaking" this game is thousands of years in the future, and we have no idea what a "powercell" even is (it probably is not a lead-acid battery). There are a myriad of ways it could be explained.

Let's focus more on the gameplay ramifications of the concept, and whether allowing mine effects to be "stacked" would be a good idea or not.
May 31, 2020 greenwall link
+1

This feature has been suggested before for PCB... I think it should apply to all energy drain weapons.

Recharge rates are simply too fast.

Also, why not also stack the gravity pull? So if you walk into a giant pile of Gravity mines, you also get sucked locked in place for longer the more mines there are.
Jun 02, 2020 drazed link
Or it could affect the charge-rate temporarily as well as the total charge?
Jun 02, 2020 CrazySpence link
Energy drain weapons don't need to be negative

A couple PCB's on someone is enough to hold them down we don't need to add negative values so people can go back to "solo" tactics

plus the extreme overuse of them in bots would be incredibly frustrating if they had this trait.

stacking the "gravity" effect however might be interesting
Jun 03, 2020 death456 link
I agree for what CrazySpence said above we don't need negative values on energy drain weapons. Only takes 2-4 guys to effectively pin down a hostile trident.

As drazed said it would be cool to add a debuff of having less total charge and regen for a set time. It wouldn't stack but it would refresh the debuff time. I wouldn't say a duration time maybe something like 10-20 secs.
Jun 03, 2020 greenwall link
CS and death's detractions are highly circumstantial, if not just flat out wrong.

All energy drain weapons require multiple people to be involved to be used effectively against capships by the simple fact that damage-causing weapons cannot be used at the same time by the same player. Their use against non-capital ships is mostly only in a defensive fashion (i.e. in fleeing a pursuer), and are a fairly insignificant factor compared to the general piloting experience of the players in involved.

To effectively hold an adept trident or goliath from fleeing you need AT LEAST 2 fairly experienced people with PCBs, and then you need AT LEAST one other fairly experienced player to drop the shields and inflict damage. If that capship under attack is armed with capital swarms, the task is made much more difficult. If that capship has basic fighter support, the task is virtually impossible. All of this is due largely to the fact that it takes only microsecond of charge to get turbo ability with a capitol ship battery; just one tiny gap in oppressive PCB fire is enough to allow escape. Similarly, unless a capital ship is navigating a massive and dense field of Gravity Mines that somehow unusually escapes being eliminated by NPCs or other players, they won't really be hindered.

While of course we always hope this will change, currently VO is not known for having SO many players that multiple 3+ man combat teams are common. Nor is VO known for having so much capital ship traffic that hanging around with PCBs and Gravity Mine / Drain Mine setups is a worthwhile use of one's time. It's a huge sacrifice to use these weapons and they still need some buffs to be better balanced for current gameplay.

In the particular case of the mine-based energy drainer: because there are hard limits to effective deployment (ammo and visual avoid-ability), making them fearsome rather than mild is warranted. I appreciate the new weapon, I think the gravity function is interesting, but this is still too weak. It's ultimately not going to be used any more than the original drain mine launchers (which are NEVER used). And what's the point of making new weapons if nobody really uses them?
Jun 03, 2020 Luxen link
Greenwall, as a pilot who doesn't have a capital ship, nor ever plans to get one under the current implementation... negatively draining PCBs sound really horrifying, especially when you get a swarm of ten+ bots all shooting them at you. I'm sorry I don't want to be a flying brick for the extended amount of time i'd be forced to just sit. PCBs are valid anti-assault weapons already.

Now, if this were applied to JUST mines, that'd be a bit more acceptable, but you'd still have fighters who jump in and are instantly disabled after being hit by a regular drain mine under a negative drain style. same probelm: you have pilots who are suddenly unable to take action outside of standard movement (after the CC wears off, that is), and that would just be disheartening.

there are more targets than just capital ships out there.
Jun 03, 2020 greenwall link
@luxen

I don't think NPCs should wield stacking-negative drain weapons. I'm thinking about it purely in the context of human player use. Whether than means the stacking ability is disabled when under NPC use, or they are entirely different weapons, I don't really care.

Now, if this were applied to JUST mines, that'd be a bit more acceptable, but you'd still have fighters who jump in and are instantly disabled after being hit by a regular drain mine under a negative drain style. same probelm: you have pilots who are suddenly unable to take action outside of standard movement (after the CC wears off, that is), and that would just be disheartening.

^That sounds wonderful and worthwhile for a new rare / high cost weapon. But I think you know you are exaggerating... spawn points vary, and there is no more guarantee that you are instantly disabled by this proposed buffed gravity mine than you would be instantly vaporized by an existing TU mine.

Lets not forget as well that they could make some addon that repels drain weapon effects-- seems like fair thing to sacrifice a weapons port for. But I digress...
Jun 03, 2020 death456 link
Well if it was possible to have gravity mines stack there would be a hard bottom cap UNDER zero energy.

When more ships do get released and capital ship combat gets more defined with hard benefits/setbacks. I would think negative values to energy drain weapons might be a wonderful and needed thing.

As of now I would support buffs to gravity mines. but not negative power cell values atm. I'm mixed

Buffs pertaining to more pull as you hit more mines and how big their activation radius is...? like a proxy? Something to make it easier to get hit by a mine.

And other buffs and additions to things in VO that will make gravity mines more viable, its a multiple sided issue.

We cant look at JUST gravity mines and energy drain weapons we should look at the other things that will be added in VO (we don't know the future of whats gonna be added in next but I know it will balance out things in their own ways.) and things that could be changed to the weapon its self and other game play elements around it.

That's what I think about this.