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Discussion: What is the PCB for?
Original arguments for the PCB back in the day were to have a tool to stop tridents from running away. I understand and accept this need.
With the new energy drain rules, not only does the PCB effect travel, but its ability to fight.
So I'd like to read opinions from everyone here on the question of: What is the PCB for, to interfere with travel, to interfere with fighting, or both?
Some data. I did a test with a trident with one PCB on it constantly. When the battery is drained...
Caprail cannot fire
Cap swarms cannot fire
Neuts fire in diminished fashion
Gat cannot fire
Cap cannon fires like always.
Multiple PCBs pretty much stop all energy weapons, including the PCB.
With the new energy drain rules, not only does the PCB effect travel, but its ability to fight.
So I'd like to read opinions from everyone here on the question of: What is the PCB for, to interfere with travel, to interfere with fighting, or both?
Some data. I did a test with a trident with one PCB on it constantly. When the battery is drained...
Caprail cannot fire
Cap swarms cannot fire
Neuts fire in diminished fashion
Gat cannot fire
Cap cannon fires like always.
Multiple PCBs pretty much stop all energy weapons, including the PCB.
Now my opinion...
(Please keep this thread for discussion of the question, suggestions in their own threads)
The PCB is great for stopping another ship from jumping, and this is good for the game. Having it pretty much completely cripple its ability to fight is OP and this is bad for the game.
"Oh just bring a fighter to exit your ship and fight them off!" you might say. This doesn't work for the mobile player against pretty much anyone here reading this thread, or when facing six or eight attackers. I think that it is reasonable to have a game where the underdog can fight back.
Myself and other nationalist players on both sides like being the underdog at times and fighting it out. But if being outnumbered = certain defeat then the fighting will diminish.
(Please keep this thread for discussion of the question, suggestions in their own threads)
The PCB is great for stopping another ship from jumping, and this is good for the game. Having it pretty much completely cripple its ability to fight is OP and this is bad for the game.
"Oh just bring a fighter to exit your ship and fight them off!" you might say. This doesn't work for the mobile player against pretty much anyone here reading this thread, or when facing six or eight attackers. I think that it is reasonable to have a game where the underdog can fight back.
Myself and other nationalist players on both sides like being the underdog at times and fighting it out. But if being outnumbered = certain defeat then the fighting will diminish.
While admittedly I haven't played and suffered any losses from the current PCB situation.....
I do think a PCB being able to cripple a trident is acceptable. A PCB-bearing pilot alone cannot do anything aside from lock down a trident and incapacitate it. Further damage requires other players assisting. Similarly, if a capital ship pilot had one mildly capable fighter escort, the single PCB assailant would be easily countered and rendered ineffective.
It strikes me that there is a decent balance here. Prior to these energy requirements on the turrets it was far too easy for a single capital ship pilot to evade the PCB, even with multiple assailants.
The capships we have right now, afterall, are cargo vessels. Their defensive capabilities shouldn't be all-encompassing. Yes, we wish they were, because there is a huge hole in the game for capital ships that are combat-purposed. And we have long gotten used to the Trident and Goliath being floating carriers, but really their purpose is to haul crap.
I do think a PCB being able to cripple a trident is acceptable. A PCB-bearing pilot alone cannot do anything aside from lock down a trident and incapacitate it. Further damage requires other players assisting. Similarly, if a capital ship pilot had one mildly capable fighter escort, the single PCB assailant would be easily countered and rendered ineffective.
It strikes me that there is a decent balance here. Prior to these energy requirements on the turrets it was far too easy for a single capital ship pilot to evade the PCB, even with multiple assailants.
The capships we have right now, afterall, are cargo vessels. Their defensive capabilities shouldn't be all-encompassing. Yes, we wish they were, because there is a huge hole in the game for capital ships that are combat-purposed. And we have long gotten used to the Trident and Goliath being floating carriers, but really their purpose is to haul crap.
@Greenwall, come get some first hand experience.
I was in the last major ITAN vs ONE battle last year being a PCB'er is quite a challenge. I still hold to the bottom line is this is total war. These are FREIGHTERS (tridents, goliaths) they just happen to be the only 2 capital ships in the game. I even fought along side greenwall last year with the two free premium months of VO.
Grey is dangerous. tridents, goliath flyers should not feel virtually invincible in their ships. This is total war. It's who ever had more bodys and ships in a fight at a given time. Get that PCB off of you. You will still need to know basic pvp. have a fighter ready to go to try and defend your ship if your alone or friends who can help. It takes a little bit of time to fully keep a trident drained and stick on it while being shot at by others.
This PCB issue has really been blown out of proportion it's not what people claim on here vs in game. There are many ways to combat it. (fighting back, friends, swarms) The shielded ship/capital ship meta is not done. Hold your horses guys.
Grey is dangerous. tridents, goliath flyers should not feel virtually invincible in their ships. This is total war. It's who ever had more bodys and ships in a fight at a given time. Get that PCB off of you. You will still need to know basic pvp. have a fighter ready to go to try and defend your ship if your alone or friends who can help. It takes a little bit of time to fully keep a trident drained and stick on it while being shot at by others.
This PCB issue has really been blown out of proportion it's not what people claim on here vs in game. There are many ways to combat it. (fighting back, friends, swarms) The shielded ship/capital ship meta is not done. Hold your horses guys.
No need to fix something that aint broken.
I find myself agreeing with greenwall on this one in general. If you are not a highly skilled capitol ship combatant, then bring escorts when traveling through dangerous places. Could pirates muster a sufficient force to overwhelm your escorts and kill you and take your stuff, SURE. I don't see that as a design flaw, Grey Space is supposed to be dangerous.
I would say adding the ammunition based weapons suggested earlier by HunPredator would largely mitigate the issue of a single pilot being able to simply hold a capitol ship for however long they feel like. I am aware that a top tier pilot in a reasonably quick ship could still do so against a lone capitol ship in the hands of a novice. I do not however see that as necessarily a bad thing. That is after all a real corner case of a highly skilled attacker vs a novice opponent, or someone on mobile, who is sadly at a disadvantage that I doubt can be fully neutralized without turning the game into virtual dice rolling.
By the same token, I do not want to see current capitol ships rendered helpless at this time. This is because for now, the Trident is the closest thing players have to real capitol warships. Once future capitol ships come out that are more combat focused, my view on that would most likley change to reflect the changed circumstances.
If you do not like danger, stick to less dangerous space. Nation space has been made immensely safer over the past dozen or so years.
I would say adding the ammunition based weapons suggested earlier by HunPredator would largely mitigate the issue of a single pilot being able to simply hold a capitol ship for however long they feel like. I am aware that a top tier pilot in a reasonably quick ship could still do so against a lone capitol ship in the hands of a novice. I do not however see that as necessarily a bad thing. That is after all a real corner case of a highly skilled attacker vs a novice opponent, or someone on mobile, who is sadly at a disadvantage that I doubt can be fully neutralized without turning the game into virtual dice rolling.
By the same token, I do not want to see current capitol ships rendered helpless at this time. This is because for now, the Trident is the closest thing players have to real capitol warships. Once future capitol ships come out that are more combat focused, my view on that would most likley change to reflect the changed circumstances.
If you do not like danger, stick to less dangerous space. Nation space has been made immensely safer over the past dozen or so years.
@death456 last year was many changes ago. Come play now.
@LNH, I love you buddy, but come experience the latest changes.
In general, those who have not played in the last seven days should hold their opinions until they do.
It should not be that most PCBs brought to battle = victory. The underdog needs to be able to fight back.
I understand that I'm not speaking for the hauler/pirate balance. Different considerations that I'm not considering.
@LNH, I love you buddy, but come experience the latest changes.
In general, those who have not played in the last seven days should hold their opinions until they do.
It should not be that most PCBs brought to battle = victory. The underdog needs to be able to fight back.
I understand that I'm not speaking for the hauler/pirate balance. Different considerations that I'm not considering.
I still play regularly csgno1, I just don't always play on look ...no hands
That being said, is there any reason a trader can't load up with a pair of pcb turrets and a pair of swarms?
That being said, is there any reason a trader can't load up with a pair of pcb turrets and a pair of swarms?
undock something with a pcb and a blaster and you can take down someone pcb-ing the crap out of you before backup shows up.
wouldn't mind seeing less AA on the PCB right now it's the same as a gat turret, even if it were in line with the gauss cannon it would still be plenty strong.
Capships are meant to be powerhouses when they're crewed, getting incapacitated by a single player is fair, specially given that it requires flying ouside of the line of fire of turrets which can be pretty tricky if the capship pilot knows what they're doing.
TL;DR: faken' ferget about it.
wouldn't mind seeing less AA on the PCB right now it's the same as a gat turret, even if it were in line with the gauss cannon it would still be plenty strong.
Capships are meant to be powerhouses when they're crewed, getting incapacitated by a single player is fair, specially given that it requires flying ouside of the line of fire of turrets which can be pretty tricky if the capship pilot knows what they're doing.
TL;DR: faken' ferget about it.
"That being said, is there any reason a trader can't load up with a pair of pcb turrets and a pair of swarms?"-LNH
I agree why cant a trader get some guns? They are allergic to shooting others in grey? Or friends to help.
Would anyone fly an XC knowing it's not safe? People would fly a goliath (upgraded XC)/hauler because it simply has shields and more HP
It appears the bottom line is to kill the PCB guy. Or Get friends to protect you.
yes I have tried out the new turrets and played a little. I rather make a contribution here.
"It should not be that most PCBs brought to battle = victory. The underdog needs to be able to fight back." csgno1
Explain this "underdog"? This is Vendetta Online! The gang with the most people/experience will beat anyone. Happens in any MMO? This is just really hard to buy my self. Just because you trade for your career in VO doesn't make you exempt from PVP
I agree why cant a trader get some guns? They are allergic to shooting others in grey? Or friends to help.
Would anyone fly an XC knowing it's not safe? People would fly a goliath (upgraded XC)/hauler because it simply has shields and more HP
It appears the bottom line is to kill the PCB guy. Or Get friends to protect you.
yes I have tried out the new turrets and played a little. I rather make a contribution here.
"It should not be that most PCBs brought to battle = victory. The underdog needs to be able to fight back." csgno1
Explain this "underdog"? This is Vendetta Online! The gang with the most people/experience will beat anyone. Happens in any MMO? This is just really hard to buy my self. Just because you trade for your career in VO doesn't make you exempt from PVP
I will explain. Im not doing trade runs, im looking for battles. When it’s 3v6 the underdogs are the team with three. Sometimes my side has the numbers, sometimes not. When there are sometimes eight people on one side the dynamics of the fight are much different than one hauler being threatened by one or two pirates. The conversation keeps getting dragged back to the hauler/pirate situation but other situations exist.
I don't think the problem is the PCB, but more 1) that all one can hope for is single digit team sizes of totally unbalanced proportions and skill and 2) capships have not ever been really well balanced for PvP engagements, and probably won't be for a long time.
In general, those who have not played in the last seven days should hold their opinions until they do.
Just responding on this single point: Swarms started drawing energy from the powercells over a month ago. I reduced it last week.
I'm actually not aware of any changes relating to PCBs in the last seven days, aside from people who were using multi-client + turret-bot configurations.
Just responding on this single point: Swarms started drawing energy from the powercells over a month ago. I reduced it last week.
I'm actually not aware of any changes relating to PCBs in the last seven days, aside from people who were using multi-client + turret-bot configurations.
Maybe I have the dates wrong, but when players in turrets started drawing energy the dynamics changed a lot