Forums » Suggestions
The drop rate nerf is extremely hindering, as originally I thought that the hard limit only effected hive killed by capships (which is fair)
I have come to realize this effects ALL farming.
I feel this is extremely excessive and unnecessarily hindering to farming, and should be changed to only effect capships and turret commands
I have come to realize this effects ALL farming.
I feel this is extremely excessive and unnecessarily hindering to farming, and should be changed to only effect capships and turret commands
it does hinder grinding the farmin loads, hence i bearly even bother farmin sss. easier to just wait for unrats to by chance drop a capship drop.
Farming sss is so slow it pretty much grinds to a hault all player trade and selling of sss. It's more time productive to indeed hope a unrat drops Manu instead of spending a half hour or more seeing if you can farm in a system.
For reference: https://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/1/37429
My suggestion would lock out the ability to afk farm with auto turrets, and return it back to farming how it usually was. And even if this does happen you can't lmine farm anymore (efficiently anyway). You have to bomb and scoop. The current hard limit does nothing make it a even slower process then it already is to Manu.
disable auto turrets after 10 seconds of no user input
I'd prefer that over a hard cap of a random amount of 200 or lower or whageber.
From the VO 1.8.568 News post (that I don't think you can see anymore):
"It is the intention for this system to only function as an "emergency brake" against future exploits and "farming" concerns. There's always a risk of an "economy of scale" problem in an MMORPG, due to inherent player organization and communication.
Goal is to further enhance the native reactions of the Hives to large-scale aggression, and other more evident tweaks to gameplay, to create a robust enough "sliding scale" of difficulty to keep people from easily bumping against the absolute limits. These changes to the Hives are not in place yet, and will take some time to roll out over the coming weeks."
I think that the initial suggested fix was either not feasible at the time, or else Inc felt like he needed a system that could be responsive to any instance of exploits involving farming drops - otherwise he would have done it. Suggesting alternative methods here is constructive.
"It is the intention for this system to only function as an "emergency brake" against future exploits and "farming" concerns. There's always a risk of an "economy of scale" problem in an MMORPG, due to inherent player organization and communication.
Goal is to further enhance the native reactions of the Hives to large-scale aggression, and other more evident tweaks to gameplay, to create a robust enough "sliding scale" of difficulty to keep people from easily bumping against the absolute limits. These changes to the Hives are not in place yet, and will take some time to roll out over the coming weeks."
I think that the initial suggested fix was either not feasible at the time, or else Inc felt like he needed a system that could be responsive to any instance of exploits involving farming drops - otherwise he would have done it. Suggesting alternative methods here is constructive.
I read Inc's post and what I see is that the change was made because people were using /+ActivateTurrets on cappies to farm SSS without actual effort. This can easily be stopped by nerfing drops from bots killed by capship turrets in particular, without nerfing drops from other ships or limiting drops on a sector by sector basis.
What I would also suggest is that bots should be significantly more aggressively against capships than against normal ships. So like if in an Arklan sector the arkies agro 2 at a time with normal ships, they should agro like 10 at a time against golis and 15 against dents. So cappie owners can't leave their ships unattended under any circumstances, and in spite of having cappies have to use normal ships.
What I would also suggest is that bots should be significantly more aggressively against capships than against normal ships. So like if in an Arklan sector the arkies agro 2 at a time with normal ships, they should agro like 10 at a time against golis and 15 against dents. So cappie owners can't leave their ships unattended under any circumstances, and in spite of having cappies have to use normal ships.
My alternative idea:
Only automatic turrets are effected by the "200 hard cap", allowing players to farm the first 200 (if they are lazy) to just afk pick up some sss. Otherwise, they would need to manually kill each arklan to get a drop, this is returns it back to a normal state without having players farm with capships to a exploitable level, even increasing farming per sector to 1k would be a drastic improvement, as currently the "around 200" hard cap has kept most players from wanting to spend so much time and effort setting up to not even be able collect a trident load of sss, Or one full goli load.
The emergency system in place is horribly flawed. Because it isn't going to stop players from farming large amounts of sss, we believe that "well eventually the system will be changed, and I can farm again" administring this only effected players who were in the process of building capital Ship parts or are set up for it, a good chunk have stock piled a large amount of sss and can just wait the system out. Upping the maximum for all sectors at 800-1,000 would encourage the selling of sss, and the return of farming sss.
Only automatic turrets are effected by the "200 hard cap", allowing players to farm the first 200 (if they are lazy) to just afk pick up some sss. Otherwise, they would need to manually kill each arklan to get a drop, this is returns it back to a normal state without having players farm with capships to a exploitable level, even increasing farming per sector to 1k would be a drastic improvement, as currently the "around 200" hard cap has kept most players from wanting to spend so much time and effort setting up to not even be able collect a trident load of sss, Or one full goli load.
The emergency system in place is horribly flawed. Because it isn't going to stop players from farming large amounts of sss, we believe that "well eventually the system will be changed, and I can farm again" administring this only effected players who were in the process of building capital Ship parts or are set up for it, a good chunk have stock piled a large amount of sss and can just wait the system out. Upping the maximum for all sectors at 800-1,000 would encourage the selling of sss, and the return of farming sss.
+1 turret drop limit but not more
Well there is also the fact that capships cannot be killed by the current Arklan agro level. So even if you aren't using ActivateTurrets, there is still the fact that you get it easy in terms of the combat. Theres no need to dodge shots. Just sit there and pick em off with your turrets. Capship owners already have an advantage in hauling. I'm not saying it's unfair, but giving them an advantage in SSS farming is. So the agro level of Arklans against capships should be increased such that it is enough to deshield it. That will solve the problem of what is essentially "no-risk" SSS farming. And ofc the hard limit should be increased or removed.
And even without ActivateTurrets, turret bots are a thing.
And even without ActivateTurrets, turret bots are a thing.
Well there is also the fact that capships cannot be killed by the current Arklan agro level.
Yes they can
Yes they can
I guess I'm different from everyone else.. I don't think there should be a limit.. I don't think "farming with active turrets" is an exploit.. I don't believe there should be anything more than a standard drop rate.
Well apparently people farmed so much that Inc had too
Inc saideth: "I received a report from a Player, late yesterday evening, that there was a situation being exploited that allowed a single user to farm upwards of 3500 Synthetic SilkSteel within a few hours, and that this was being done in a completely-AFK, fully-automated fashion, using the new "ActivateTurrets" system."
The issue is that allowing someone to do this wildly throws off the balance of the game.
The issue is that allowing someone to do this wildly throws off the balance of the game.
Why is changing sectors such a burden?
incarenate its cause of the setup time needed, u say more people as no turret drops so it takes way more time to get people and time to organise them. Its just not effective.
unless we as a playerbase is missing something then we are either open to a change game side or your opinion on farming.
as a playerbase im sure many agree changes like this are too limited and end up feeling more of a grind then needed and what people then question is why make it so restrictive when u say u hate the "grind"? we understand why its done but its been a while for a better solution. like u can adjust drop rates from turret kills. why not reduce them to say a 30% drop instead of 100%. increase the sector limit cap to like 800 etc.
in other words, setup time for people to drop rates is not worth it. and me alone before sectors reset can cripple a lot of sectors. and these sectors are really sutiable ones for sss farmin. no one is gona go farm tycorp for sss or hunt queens for sss.
unless we as a playerbase is missing something then we are either open to a change game side or your opinion on farming.
as a playerbase im sure many agree changes like this are too limited and end up feeling more of a grind then needed and what people then question is why make it so restrictive when u say u hate the "grind"? we understand why its done but its been a while for a better solution. like u can adjust drop rates from turret kills. why not reduce them to say a 30% drop instead of 100%. increase the sector limit cap to like 800 etc.
in other words, setup time for people to drop rates is not worth it. and me alone before sectors reset can cripple a lot of sectors. and these sectors are really sutiable ones for sss farmin. no one is gona go farm tycorp for sss or hunt queens for sss.
just to cladify setup times for groups are like 10mins for ppl to gather then farm with say 3 ppl total. for then to hit 80-150ss to then split between 3 people. like 20mins of farmin for anywhere between ~26 to ~50sss is not worth the 20mins of farmin it. oh and also add the time it takes to split and give other ppl at station maybe another 3-5mins if really quick. so overall for 33 to 35mins for just 26-50sss. compared to what it used to be of 20mins for 200+ sss for each person.
not to mention more people mean these sector limits get hit more often. and bigger capships/more capships mean it just becomes a bigger strain.
im just pointing out issues as it stands rn. i know u said it was a overnight fix and something to replace it but smthing really needs to be done about it and soon.
i do also think its worth notein that alot of ppl had stocks of sss they sold on after the "sss farm nerf" as ppl lable it as. which means ppl still got fair amounts of sss after said nerf but those stocks are drying up quick be it people keeping sss for later capships or for other non trade reasons.
also for anyone who is reading this and saying ew yoga thread, i think its still a valid point and must be addressed otherwise how would vo grow, and how would more capship fights occur.
not to mention more people mean these sector limits get hit more often. and bigger capships/more capships mean it just becomes a bigger strain.
im just pointing out issues as it stands rn. i know u said it was a overnight fix and something to replace it but smthing really needs to be done about it and soon.
i do also think its worth notein that alot of ppl had stocks of sss they sold on after the "sss farm nerf" as ppl lable it as. which means ppl still got fair amounts of sss after said nerf but those stocks are drying up quick be it people keeping sss for later capships or for other non trade reasons.
also for anyone who is reading this and saying ew yoga thread, i think its still a valid point and must be addressed otherwise how would vo grow, and how would more capship fights occur.
As Whistler said, the problem that was reported to Incarnate was that some people were AFK farming ridiculous quantities of SSS. 3500 is enough SSS for a goli, and to be able to farm that in a couple of hours is in itself IMO an exploit. To do it AFK becomes plain cheating. So to stop this, Inc first nerfed the capship turret drop rate, and then removed the special nerf on capship turrets and instead placed a limit on the sector itself.
I think that the problem which Inc was attempting to solve is that people were AFK farming huge quantities. AFK farming is only possible with cappies, since normal turret ships would get killed by collectors and transports if left AFK. But the current system has adversely affected not just capital-ship-owning AFK farmers, but also active farmers who are actually actively working and taking a risk for their SSS.
I have a suggestion for this:
Nerf the drop rates for capital ship turrets specifically. Not turrets of normal ships, only capital ships. Those are the only ships that can be used to AFK farm SSS, as explained above. If the drop rate in the average Arklan is 300% (if you kill 1 Arklan, on average you should get 3 SSS) then the capital ship drop rate should be something like 30% or even 3%. Make AFK farming with capital ships a completely unviable option.
And then remove the sector specific limits or atleast raise them 5x. Moving between sectors also does not work in many cases because there are so many players farming SSS. Chances are that the sector you moved to has already been tanked.
I think that the problem which Inc was attempting to solve is that people were AFK farming huge quantities. AFK farming is only possible with cappies, since normal turret ships would get killed by collectors and transports if left AFK. But the current system has adversely affected not just capital-ship-owning AFK farmers, but also active farmers who are actually actively working and taking a risk for their SSS.
I have a suggestion for this:
Nerf the drop rates for capital ship turrets specifically. Not turrets of normal ships, only capital ships. Those are the only ships that can be used to AFK farm SSS, as explained above. If the drop rate in the average Arklan is 300% (if you kill 1 Arklan, on average you should get 3 SSS) then the capital ship drop rate should be something like 30% or even 3%. Make AFK farming with capital ships a completely unviable option.
And then remove the sector specific limits or atleast raise them 5x. Moving between sectors also does not work in many cases because there are so many players farming SSS. Chances are that the sector you moved to has already been tanked.