Watching a new player get frustrated, and trying to post from their input, but one of their main gripes is how some missions plot courses. For example, retrieve missions plot you a course to the required station, and then back again, while other multi stage missions plot as needed

This has lead to them flying the entire route (time and time again lol) to get the cargo, only to end up back where they started. I have said they will get used to it, but after 30 or 40 times of seeing them do it, thought I might suggest a change.

Either: plot the course to the required/suggested station and only plot the course back once docked OR just plot the course to the station with the goods, let them plot their own course back. By the time they are taking this mission they should know how to do this.

Heck, it might be okay if the mission didn't plot a course at all and just let the player plot.

Eh sure I wouldn't mind but if that happens there's going to be a load of people asking "why do I have to plot a course when the course is already determined by the mission"...

I'd have to go back at least fifteen years to find those threads but they exist...

15 years ago the game didn't show you how to plot a course lol, but I agree that some might find this change counter-productive.

The best option would be the first option in my opinion, plotting the course to the needed or suggested station, then plotting the course back after you dock at the target station/objective, like most newer mission do (inconsistent if nothing else), but I also understand that the trade guild missions are not made the same way as newer missions and are kind of "hard coded"; probably the wrong term but it makes the changes possibly worse? Harder? More technical? (Doesn't use the mission editor) Hence the suggestion to simply remove the plotted course.

I guess long term this won't really be an issue, but right now? As someone who has played for a very long time I also sometimes fly the entire route (we've all done it), which is annoying; but for a new player? It is downright frustrating. She really didn't get what she was doing wrong until I explained it.

Maybe a better idea would be to pop off some mission text when you arrive at the station to get the players attention, like "You have arrived at <station sector>, please make sure to buy <x amount of cargo> and then return to <mission start>.", rather than when you dock, at least then theres a visual cue to dock and I could say it is their fault for not paying attention. Whichever is easier to be honest; just something really does need to change to improve new player experience when it comes to these missions (which are the only sane way to level trade/faction).

TL;DR: I'm not disagreeing with you; it's a lil clunky at times but it's that way because the userbase requested it changing it back could just as well yield more frustration than not touching it.

Oddly enough granted I'm remembering shit right; what you're suggesting used to be implemented, if you docked mid mission it would automatically open the mission log tab* displaying the relevant mission info the player would then have to navigate the menu to the commerce tab to buy the goodies and carry on with the mission, but again due to players finding this redundant because the mission log was already opened upon taking the mission it was changed at one point.

*twas either that or the last opened tab whilst in space I can't remember t'was too far back

furthermore 15 years ago the tutorials were fleshed out enough to teach newbs to plot courses. (granted they actually read the damn mission log!)

If you go beyond 15 years though you either had the game manual or... someone else taught you how to do it.

We definitely need to streamline and smooth out the rough edges of this kind of user experience for newer players, so the feedback is welcome even if the solution isn't immediately apparent.

I've been considering other queues as well, like visual path-splines that "show" people where to fly to reach a docking bay, which could have relevance as an inherent visual indicator that "you need to dock here".

There's probably some combination of information awareness and reminders that wouldn't be too arduous for existing players, but help new people climb the "steep and occasionally inverted wall" that can be VO's new-user experience.

Yes, thank you for noticing this. I'm kind of having a pretty unique perspective of VO right now. This is the first time I've watched a new player in real life struggling with things I've done thousands of times and getting frustrated or lost or... Just not getting the dopamine hit from getting things right. She feels lucky I know what to do and can help, as she likes the game and has already made friends, but how many do this and just get fed up instead?

Any kind of visual clue, even like you suggest Incarnate, would be cool. Thank you for your time!

Not trying to be anti- here, but part of that problem is mindlessly following the nav-plots. It's your job to learn where everything is and they kinda need to pay attention to what you're doing and where you're going. Sure, I agree its frustrating and we've all done it, but that isn't really the games fault. It's ours for not paying attention. Sometimes the best teacher is pain.

The other missions stall the waypoints because normally there are mission requirements designed to be met in the current sector before moving on.

The same scenario applies to joining an engagement across the verse, and forgetting to set your home station close... then you die. It's something you either learn the hard way or get used to making a lot of trips, but I wouldn't advkcate for auto-setting your bome station to the nearest one.

Not trying to be anti- here, but part of that problem is mindlessly following the nav-plots. It's your job to learn where everything is and they kinda need to pay attention to what you're doing and where you're going. Sure, I agree its frustrating and we've all done it, but that isn't really the games fault. It's ours for not paying attention. Sometimes the best teacher is pain.

I understand what you mean, as I thought the same before my experience, but no. We are not talking about a player who has time to understand the universe here, nor should new players be expected to log on and understand everything on day 2. And yes, she was running trade missions on day 2 or 3. I had left her to her own devices past a little explanation of the controls... someone on chat had said something about trade guild missions and she flew to the mission "goal" only to be frustrated at not having the cargo available to buy and couldn't understand where she had gone wrong.

If your only reply is "it's been that way for years, I manage it" then you possibly shouldn't reply.

The other missions stall the waypoints because normally there are mission requirements designed to be met in the current sector before moving on.

What, you mean a mission goal like stopping to buy cargo?

The same scenario applies to joining an engagement across the verse, and forgetting to set your home station close... then you die. It's something you either learn the hard way or get used to making a lot of trips, but I wouldn't advkcate for auto-setting your bome station to the nearest one.

No, it really isn't anything like that at all, but thank you for your feedback. Means a lot. Love you <3 xxx

You're opinion on my comments and it's your right, but I just don't agree. I think it's exactly as I stated in all three points of my comments. You get mission, you check map, and figure out where you're going, not blindly follow the arrows. You can learn how to navigate the first day. This isn't World of Warcraft. When something goes wrong, read the mission. Seems like common sense to me.

I also never said "It's been that way for years", and no one did in this thread that I reread, so I hope that wasn't directed at me.

But alas good luck with your request. Hope it turns out how you like.