Forums » Suggestions
Okay, I have played (off and on) for a month now. I have one major gripe, and it kills all fun I might have had in the game.
I understand why there is a speed limit, and would never consider asking for that to change. What I don't understand why ships deccelerate from thier turbo speed in a matter of just a second with flight assist off. It's a limit that takes all of my favorite flight tactics, and any white knuckle fun I may have derrived from them, and turns this game into a grind. I can only go through the nose-to-nose spin-stop-shoot routine so many times before it's time to play another game I actually consider enjoyable. I am not trying to flame those of you who do like this, but I resent having my hands bound by artificial restraints and being forced to rely on a tactic that doesn't feel natural to me.
My suggestion is to change whatever artificial friction there is that makes ships screech to a halt. Place in a constraint that makes ships slow at something like 1 meter / second when turbo is released and let players glide. This would open up more dog fighting. This would end complaints about infiniboost vs piracy, since it would again become possible to eventually overtake a slower cargo runner using controlled burns. And those who want the nose to nose fights could still indluge in thier guilty pleasure.
If you want to see an example of this in action, the game Freelancer does exactly this. The game has some tragic flaws, but this aspect of thier flight model is not one of them.
Releasing the ability to steer in turbo would compliment the above suggestion, but this is only a minor complaint for which I can compensate.
I have to compliment the developers on everything else in the game so far. I consider the graphics to be pristine. The game has a feeling of continuity when jumping throughout a system and seeing the same planets from different angles. The scale of everything gives a wonderful feeling of vastness to space. And the backgrounds look like space and not some vibrant spastic watercolor fingerpainting (as plauges most modern space sims). I can see plenty of allure here now, and a potential for greatness in the future. But the hideous decceleration is the one thing that has kept me from fully embracing this game now, and would prevent me from giving a second look in the future.
I am interested in what others think of this, and would appreciate a developer comment before I finalize my decision to cancel.
I understand why there is a speed limit, and would never consider asking for that to change. What I don't understand why ships deccelerate from thier turbo speed in a matter of just a second with flight assist off. It's a limit that takes all of my favorite flight tactics, and any white knuckle fun I may have derrived from them, and turns this game into a grind. I can only go through the nose-to-nose spin-stop-shoot routine so many times before it's time to play another game I actually consider enjoyable. I am not trying to flame those of you who do like this, but I resent having my hands bound by artificial restraints and being forced to rely on a tactic that doesn't feel natural to me.
My suggestion is to change whatever artificial friction there is that makes ships screech to a halt. Place in a constraint that makes ships slow at something like 1 meter / second when turbo is released and let players glide. This would open up more dog fighting. This would end complaints about infiniboost vs piracy, since it would again become possible to eventually overtake a slower cargo runner using controlled burns. And those who want the nose to nose fights could still indluge in thier guilty pleasure.
If you want to see an example of this in action, the game Freelancer does exactly this. The game has some tragic flaws, but this aspect of thier flight model is not one of them.
Releasing the ability to steer in turbo would compliment the above suggestion, but this is only a minor complaint for which I can compensate.
I have to compliment the developers on everything else in the game so far. I consider the graphics to be pristine. The game has a feeling of continuity when jumping throughout a system and seeing the same planets from different angles. The scale of everything gives a wonderful feeling of vastness to space. And the backgrounds look like space and not some vibrant spastic watercolor fingerpainting (as plauges most modern space sims). I can see plenty of allure here now, and a potential for greatness in the future. But the hideous decceleration is the one thing that has kept me from fully embracing this game now, and would prevent me from giving a second look in the future.
I am interested in what others think of this, and would appreciate a developer comment before I finalize my decision to cancel.
Except then it wouldn't be Vendetta anymore. This game is what it is- it isn't a WWII style dogfighting game where everybody always travels at max boost with turbo-tapping. I had a better answer, but then the power went out (and just came back on), so this one will have to suffice.
mechadragon the fastest ships all have 'high battery drain' during turbo, which prevents them from chasing down people who have lower top speed, but can turbo continuously. changing that would unbalance all those ships in 'chasing' situations.
and rogue i dunno what WWII game u played but in warbirds nobody went around at top speed all the time. they had to deal with gravity, wind drag, stalls, blackouts, redouts, wings ripping off, controls locking up at high speed, sun blinding, etc etc etc.
and rogue i dunno what WWII game u played but in warbirds nobody went around at top speed all the time. they had to deal with gravity, wind drag, stalls, blackouts, redouts, wings ripping off, controls locking up at high speed, sun blinding, etc etc etc.
mecha:
the ships decelerate from turbo at such a high rate of speed to eliminate the possibility of "turbo tapping"
it was a common practice during the alpha test (at which time the decel was slower) which allowed ships that used more energy during turbo than thier batteries produced to turbo indefinitely.
Unless the deceleration occurs at a higher rate than the acceleration, the above is what occurs.
It worked somewhat like this,
you turboed up to high speed, then released the turbo for a second.
because your were no longer turboing you lost a few m/s of speed.
in the meantime you regained 1 seconds worth of battery.
because the slowdown was less than the rate you accelerated at, it only took .75 seconds worth of the energy you regained during that second to regain your prior speed. this allowed ships to travel at ~95% of max turbo while gaining energy, even tho thier battery drain was higher than battery output.
unless the ships decelerate faster than they accelerate the above scenario is what occurs.
Since the drain on ship engines is a large part of the balance of vendetta, the drain has to remain how it is.
the ships decelerate from turbo at such a high rate of speed to eliminate the possibility of "turbo tapping"
it was a common practice during the alpha test (at which time the decel was slower) which allowed ships that used more energy during turbo than thier batteries produced to turbo indefinitely.
Unless the deceleration occurs at a higher rate than the acceleration, the above is what occurs.
It worked somewhat like this,
you turboed up to high speed, then released the turbo for a second.
because your were no longer turboing you lost a few m/s of speed.
in the meantime you regained 1 seconds worth of battery.
because the slowdown was less than the rate you accelerated at, it only took .75 seconds worth of the energy you regained during that second to regain your prior speed. this allowed ships to travel at ~95% of max turbo while gaining energy, even tho thier battery drain was higher than battery output.
unless the ships decelerate faster than they accelerate the above scenario is what occurs.
Since the drain on ship engines is a large part of the balance of vendetta, the drain has to remain how it is.
Thank you Spellcast.
Might the use of exponents help allieviate this? The faster a ship is going, the faster it's decceleration? So that decceleration occurs on an arc, and as the ship slows down, its rate of decceleration tapers off. This could then be adjusted to limit the effects of "turbo tapping", while still allowing high speed manuevers.
Might the use of exponents help allieviate this? The faster a ship is going, the faster it's decceleration? So that decceleration occurs on an arc, and as the ship slows down, its rate of decceleration tapers off. This could then be adjusted to limit the effects of "turbo tapping", while still allowing high speed manuevers.
Well if we did that mechadragon then we'd just be lowering the speed at which you can turbo tap. Let's say we take an svg with 240 max speed.
We give it a higher drag at higher speeds.
No matter what, in order to actually change what you want changed we would have a turbo tapping speed.
Though maybe if the turbo tapping speed was at 160, players wouldn't turbo tap?
/givemoney Devs 2c
We give it a higher drag at higher speeds.
No matter what, in order to actually change what you want changed we would have a turbo tapping speed.
Though maybe if the turbo tapping speed was at 160, players wouldn't turbo tap?
/givemoney Devs 2c
of course we would, the more experienced of us would use that to consistently push weapons and rockets in speeds exceeding 400 in a combat situation. There is a wonderful boost power of the SVG/flare still, and giving me turbotap would put the rest of you in a disadvantage.
Also note, there were TT binds :-/
Also note, there were TT binds :-/
personaly i don't have a problem with the deceleration from turbo, but i would like to be able to turn without disengaging turbo.
I still use my TT bind to get around in a 60 drain ship, does not work like it used to, basically now it slows me down less than letting go of turbo, can make the last 50 or so energy go that bit further towards a worm hole., i can also turn slightly in the TT bind.
How about the time it takes to engage and disengage turbo makes it useless rather than bending physics so much?
Well the gliding and shooting part can be done with the flight assist off (unforutnately it isn't efficeient for those who use a joy stick).
The strafing methods can be boring and at times mindless which is rather unfortunatie but even still the strafing methods work and are still enjoyable.
There is a good probablility that we will see adjustments made to these things to make the game better.
The ability to fly around a ship and circle it while shooting would be much nicer that the strafe around in circles to avoid gun fire.
The turbo part doesn't bother me at all. I simply dont see a need to adjust it since it is working just fine. I think that larger ships should burn more energy for turbo and have a higher decceleration rate. Don't bother saying anything about realism since this is a game and many other thigns just aren't realistic anyway.
The issue with modifying the combat/manuevering sytem is the AI would need a major adjustment. So we wont be seeing such thigns that soon.
I like the game and can only hope for even more improvement beyond what we already have.
The strafing methods can be boring and at times mindless which is rather unfortunatie but even still the strafing methods work and are still enjoyable.
There is a good probablility that we will see adjustments made to these things to make the game better.
The ability to fly around a ship and circle it while shooting would be much nicer that the strafe around in circles to avoid gun fire.
The turbo part doesn't bother me at all. I simply dont see a need to adjust it since it is working just fine. I think that larger ships should burn more energy for turbo and have a higher decceleration rate. Don't bother saying anything about realism since this is a game and many other thigns just aren't realistic anyway.
The issue with modifying the combat/manuevering sytem is the AI would need a major adjustment. So we wont be seeing such thigns that soon.
I like the game and can only hope for even more improvement beyond what we already have.
To be honest, I am not really seeing the problem with Turbo Tapping. I can see limiting it to keep some ships from grossly overpowering other ships, but taking measures to prevent it completely seems excessive. Some ships should be faster than others. Some ships are meant to overtake/intercept other ships. If the differnces in speeds is the problem, then a bit of readjustment of the flight ceilings would be alot more logical than invisable brick wall approach that has been taken.
I am fairly certain that there is no one definition of what Vendetta "is". But from what I have heard so far, I would best describe it as a work in progress, and subject to change.
Lowering the speed at which someone can turbo tap was the exact reason for my exponent proposal. If my Atlas Mk II tops out at 200 m/s, and the optimal speed someone can achive turbo tapping is 160m/s, then the chances are, if that persuer doesn't close the gap before I have accelerated >160m/s, I am goign to get away. Either that or he is going to run himself out of juice trying to play catch up.
And to me... that sounds fun.
I am fairly certain that there is no one definition of what Vendetta "is". But from what I have heard so far, I would best describe it as a work in progress, and subject to change.
Lowering the speed at which someone can turbo tap was the exact reason for my exponent proposal. If my Atlas Mk II tops out at 200 m/s, and the optimal speed someone can achive turbo tapping is 160m/s, then the chances are, if that persuer doesn't close the gap before I have accelerated >160m/s, I am goign to get away. Either that or he is going to run himself out of juice trying to play catch up.
And to me... that sounds fun.
Sooo.... You're suggesting that two years worth of flight system development and balancing is thrown away because... Well, I really can't find any 'because' in your posts. Just a buttload of egoism. Good work.
Why don't you just finalize you decision, whatever it may be, and let me get on with our lives without having to break my 'be nice' conduct. I think everyone could be a lot happier after that.
Why don't you just finalize you decision, whatever it may be, and let me get on with our lives without having to break my 'be nice' conduct. I think everyone could be a lot happier after that.
"Let me get on with our lives..."?
Are suffering from Multiple Personality Disorder Genka? If so, that would explain much. (0.o)
"My Prrrrecccciousssss"
*GDR*
Are suffering from Multiple Personality Disorder Genka? If so, that would explain much. (0.o)
"My Prrrrecccciousssss"
*GDR*
Being able to fight at speeds of 240m/sec is basically impossible. You would never hit anyone.
Okay no need to flame eahother here.
Smply what was being suggested was a modification to the Turbo system (which some of us think is fine as it is) and also a more mobile combat.
Combat currently is the sit a small distance away and strafe around. There are no Hit and Run tactics that are effective. There is nothing beyond the basic stand and fire that was used by the british. So the request was for more mobility in a combat situation rather than the current system.
The issue is that the arcade physics allow for none of this and the real physics system doesnt work with a joystick so it isnt effective for some.
Smply what was being suggested was a modification to the Turbo system (which some of us think is fine as it is) and also a more mobile combat.
Combat currently is the sit a small distance away and strafe around. There are no Hit and Run tactics that are effective. There is nothing beyond the basic stand and fire that was used by the british. So the request was for more mobility in a combat situation rather than the current system.
The issue is that the arcade physics allow for none of this and the real physics system doesnt work with a joystick so it isnt effective for some.
Actually, if you set up your joystick properly, you can still fight very effectively with flight-assist off. I've seen people who stick the strafe controls on the hat switch, and while the throttle doesn't work totally properly with accel and decel, there are ways around it. With flight-assist on, you can have very white-knuckle battles. Try leaving flight assist on, and take a hog up against a rev-c centurion. With flight assist on both fighters, the battle takes place under 150m, meaning it is very high paced - especially if either the hog pilot or the rev-c pilot is experienced in the tactic.
As CrippledPidgeon suggested, I have always had my strafe controls bound to my highhat though I use the kybd for thrust control. Too used to my Descent 3 configureation.
> Combat currently is the sit a small distance away and strafe around.
Try it against a SkyCommand Prometheus.
-:sigma.SB
Try it against a SkyCommand Prometheus.
-:sigma.SB
Don't let them beat you down too bad, Mecha. People are fanatical about this game, and suggestions to change any of the fundamentals will be met with a lot of resistance.