Forums » General
Just as a point of info homers have been improved a lot. So if you're used to being able to dodge them without turbo in the way we all did of old you may find yourself in for a surprise.
New update? I just dodged a wraith-full of stingrays the other day..
No idea what you are talking about eldy, but I am still able to dodge them extremely easily in a bus. Especially if you fly straight at them and then curve at the last second just a few inches.
He's not saying they're "hard" to dodge, just harder.
I'll admit I was caught way off guard and got killed real easy.
That's probably due to me not even bothering to dodge at all, since I never had to in the past.
I guess I'll have to actually pay attention to the beeping now. :D
-Cam-
I'll admit I was caught way off guard and got killed real easy.
That's probably due to me not even bothering to dodge at all, since I never had to in the past.
I guess I'll have to actually pay attention to the beeping now. :D
-Cam-
The casual dodges of the past I think are done. You know, where you could just hit the turbo key and instantly ignore all homing missles. I chuckled when someone fired a stingray at me and hit the turbo... only to watch it intercept me perfectly. Wiped the grin off my face.
;-)
^--- 'nuf said.
^--- 'nuf said.
lol yeh, i shot a hog with a stingray missile in my atlas and managed to defend myself! An exact opposite scenario starfisher was in....hmmm :P
Kestrel
Kestrel
;P Bastard. Who would have thought that thing would hit me!?!?!
Hehe, good fight ;)
Hehe, good fight ;)
Ok if you check the bugs, they've introduced a bug where in really close ranges the homers screw up and go to the wrong place. If they have a prox radius this doesn't matter. If they're contact then they still suck at the moment, but may get better once the bug is handled.
I don't know about other people but I used to be able to dodge any number of gemini without turbo, or up to three sets of swarms, and now I can't. Maybe there will be a new way to dodge them which will nerf them again, but SF the tactic you just described no longer works on gemini or swarms.
I don't know about other people but I used to be able to dodge any number of gemini without turbo, or up to three sets of swarms, and now I can't. Maybe there will be a new way to dodge them which will nerf them again, but SF the tactic you just described no longer works on gemini or swarms.
Right... and now we see the "century of art of fighting" ending.
forget the 15-minutes-cycling-duel
forget sunflares and gauss
forget skill-based wins
fear the mighty centaur with its L-Port
me is sad
forget the 15-minutes-cycling-duel
forget sunflares and gauss
forget skill-based wins
fear the mighty centaur with its L-Port
me is sad
"forget the 15-minutes-cycling-duel
forget sunflares and gauss
forget skill-based wins"
rant:
Good riddance I say. I fail to see how sunflares, gauss, and 15-minute cycling duels are more "skill" based than homers. Endless barrel roll waltzes are tedious at best, rocket duels are slightly more interesting. Improved homers simply require a new set of tactics, those who say otherwise are just afraid of change. I personally find missile duels exciting and dynamic; not only do both parties now have to maintain careful track of where the missiles are coming from but also a good awareness of their surroundings, dodging behind asteroids to cause the missiles to crash etc. I would much rather have duels consist of this than endless barrel rolling. Furthermore, heavy ships to this point have suffered a huge disadvantage since the most powerful weapons in game neccessitate agile firing platforms. Previously, flying a centaur or ragnarok into combat was as good as asking to get blown up. I still doubt that a centaur or ragnarok could stand up to a vulture, but at least now they have more of a fighting chance.
/rant
forget sunflares and gauss
forget skill-based wins"
rant:
Good riddance I say. I fail to see how sunflares, gauss, and 15-minute cycling duels are more "skill" based than homers. Endless barrel roll waltzes are tedious at best, rocket duels are slightly more interesting. Improved homers simply require a new set of tactics, those who say otherwise are just afraid of change. I personally find missile duels exciting and dynamic; not only do both parties now have to maintain careful track of where the missiles are coming from but also a good awareness of their surroundings, dodging behind asteroids to cause the missiles to crash etc. I would much rather have duels consist of this than endless barrel rolling. Furthermore, heavy ships to this point have suffered a huge disadvantage since the most powerful weapons in game neccessitate agile firing platforms. Previously, flying a centaur or ragnarok into combat was as good as asking to get blown up. I still doubt that a centaur or ragnarok could stand up to a vulture, but at least now they have more of a fighting chance.
/rant
Does this mean that people have to actually use something OTHER than a bind command to dodge? Heaven be!
Right! ... The duel I still remember best was against an equal player where he got surprised by a gemini of mine on a boomerang course. ;] I used a gauss gemini combo btw.
And that was in the old universe. I'll have to try the new missles yet.
Missles are fun!!
And that was in the old universe. I'll have to try the new missles yet.
Missles are fun!!
I was fighting a noob in a rag yesterday. All homer hits were my own fault. As long I turbo in proper circles they are not dangerous. I would say homers are perfectly balanced now. They are supposed to keep you busy, and they do that.
I got in my first PvP combat last night... got really surprised by the homing missiles on my first death.
It was also my last death, since that was all it took to make me respect them. A face full of Swarm's will kill you if they hit straight on. If they get near you, they'll hurt you pretty badly.
So when you hear that locked-on missile beep, you've got to set yourself up to evade, and quickly. If you don't, you're dead, or hurting pretty badly.
On the other side, the missile fights I had last night tended towards the high speed, hit and run, in contrast to the close-up, turning & weaving "knife fights" that the other weaposn bring on. This usually means that if you're hurt bad, you can keep up the turbo and get out of the sector, assuming you don't have an enemy in front of you.
It was also my last death, since that was all it took to make me respect them. A face full of Swarm's will kill you if they hit straight on. If they get near you, they'll hurt you pretty badly.
So when you hear that locked-on missile beep, you've got to set yourself up to evade, and quickly. If you don't, you're dead, or hurting pretty badly.
On the other side, the missile fights I had last night tended towards the high speed, hit and run, in contrast to the close-up, turning & weaving "knife fights" that the other weaposn bring on. This usually means that if you're hurt bad, you can keep up the turbo and get out of the sector, assuming you don't have an enemy in front of you.
Right.. so you can't fight back. What the hell is the point of combat if all you have to do is spam homers to make it stop?
I admit I got frustrated and stopped trying to figure out how to dodge them after the fifth time I was spammed to death. Nothing I tried worked. The old strafe roll failed miserably. Dodging their first pass and then trying to turbo away failed, as they managed to catch me before I got any speed. Variations on both failed. The one time I managed to survive longer than thirty seconds was by doing some insane combination of roll and turbo that forced me to disengage from combat.
If homers are supposed to make all the other weapons worthless, then this game suddenly became pointless.
Phaser: So basically, we have to fight in asteroid fields now, and homers are a required weapon. You posted earlier that your "tactic" was to boost at a guy going 200 m/s and unload on him - how the hell is that take any skill? If that's what combat is in this game, why don't they just up the top speeds and masses of the ships so that we can actually go fast? Hell, let's invalidate the past two years of weapons balance testing by making homers great! Hooray!
I'm sorry. Maybe someone can describe how to dodge homers while still engaging the enemy for me. I'm afraid I simply can't figure it out right now - I'm dead before I can really evaluate any tactics. I love this game because when you fight someone, your ability to use a variety of weapons actually matters. If it becomes a missle spam fest then that game is dead and we have a totally new animal on our hands.
I admit I got frustrated and stopped trying to figure out how to dodge them after the fifth time I was spammed to death. Nothing I tried worked. The old strafe roll failed miserably. Dodging their first pass and then trying to turbo away failed, as they managed to catch me before I got any speed. Variations on both failed. The one time I managed to survive longer than thirty seconds was by doing some insane combination of roll and turbo that forced me to disengage from combat.
If homers are supposed to make all the other weapons worthless, then this game suddenly became pointless.
Phaser: So basically, we have to fight in asteroid fields now, and homers are a required weapon. You posted earlier that your "tactic" was to boost at a guy going 200 m/s and unload on him - how the hell is that take any skill? If that's what combat is in this game, why don't they just up the top speeds and masses of the ships so that we can actually go fast? Hell, let's invalidate the past two years of weapons balance testing by making homers great! Hooray!
I'm sorry. Maybe someone can describe how to dodge homers while still engaging the enemy for me. I'm afraid I simply can't figure it out right now - I'm dead before I can really evaluate any tactics. I love this game because when you fight someone, your ability to use a variety of weapons actually matters. If it becomes a missle spam fest then that game is dead and we have a totally new animal on our hands.
Would you all like some cheese to go with your whine?
Asp and I were fighting against some pirates the other day and they were using swarms and geminis. It was 3 vs. 2 their advantage. I had a tach/plasma hog and Asp had a yellowjacket/tach vult. Asp's yellowjackets didn't do much. They fired swarmers and geminis at us, they tried bombing runs and all the other obvious tactics. But despite all that, we still won. It wasn't easy, but considering they were all higher levels than both of us that shouldn't be surprising.
It's not that hard. You just need to use some subtle changes in tactics and *ghasp* teamwork!
Starfisher, you posted a thread just a little while ago about how newbies need to learn to adapt to the game mechanics rather than ranting and raving and whining. Take some of your own advice. Adapt to the gameplay, develop some new strategies. If nothing works, then you can start whining, but don't start moaning before you've even given the changes a chance.
And combat has always happenned near asteroid fields. If you're far away from any asteroids you can just warp-n-run™ when you get damaged.
Asp and I were fighting against some pirates the other day and they were using swarms and geminis. It was 3 vs. 2 their advantage. I had a tach/plasma hog and Asp had a yellowjacket/tach vult. Asp's yellowjackets didn't do much. They fired swarmers and geminis at us, they tried bombing runs and all the other obvious tactics. But despite all that, we still won. It wasn't easy, but considering they were all higher levels than both of us that shouldn't be surprising.
It's not that hard. You just need to use some subtle changes in tactics and *ghasp* teamwork!
Starfisher, you posted a thread just a little while ago about how newbies need to learn to adapt to the game mechanics rather than ranting and raving and whining. Take some of your own advice. Adapt to the gameplay, develop some new strategies. If nothing works, then you can start whining, but don't start moaning before you've even given the changes a chance.
And combat has always happenned near asteroid fields. If you're far away from any asteroids you can just warp-n-run™ when you get damaged.
Sigh.. I adapt when I can. When I fail to adapt, fail miserably, I get testy. And when people make vague statements about how they won and bland assurances that it's possible, without making any sort of concrete statements to refute what I've seen happen in game, I get bitter. I apologize, but the spirit of the rant stands.
Please, how do you dodge geminis and swarms? How does one pirate without resorting to all out wormhole camping? The reason I got so pissed was because I got tired of people screaming at me for killing them as they left a wormhole. I started asking for cargo drops and got full swarms instead. Since you have to be right next to a trader to ambush him, you can't be close enough to asteroids to use them as cover. And since you're right next to him, you either have to turbo away or execute some dodge manuever that has not been revealed to me to survive - and then he gets away anyway.
If the new homers mean I have to go back to being a totally silent and souless pirate, so be it. But I really miss the days when I could actually ask for a drop, fire a few warning shots and then wait for a few seconds for a reply before killing the guy. Now I have to give him ZERO chance to let loose those homers or he gets away/I die.
(Don't anyone dare say "So don't pirate.")
So:
Since it is apparently possible to dodge homer using some new manuever, can someone please lay out the basics? As stated above It can't involve asteroids, and it has to result in me being able to catch traders without dying.
Please.
Please, how do you dodge geminis and swarms? How does one pirate without resorting to all out wormhole camping? The reason I got so pissed was because I got tired of people screaming at me for killing them as they left a wormhole. I started asking for cargo drops and got full swarms instead. Since you have to be right next to a trader to ambush him, you can't be close enough to asteroids to use them as cover. And since you're right next to him, you either have to turbo away or execute some dodge manuever that has not been revealed to me to survive - and then he gets away anyway.
If the new homers mean I have to go back to being a totally silent and souless pirate, so be it. But I really miss the days when I could actually ask for a drop, fire a few warning shots and then wait for a few seconds for a reply before killing the guy. Now I have to give him ZERO chance to let loose those homers or he gets away/I die.
(Don't anyone dare say "So don't pirate.")
So:
Since it is apparently possible to dodge homer using some new manuever, can someone please lay out the basics? As stated above It can't involve asteroids, and it has to result in me being able to catch traders without dying.
Please.
Pirate in groups. 2 pirates can take out one trader with swarms. All you need is one to draw the fire and the other to unload on em.
Starfisher, I think you are over-estimating the potency of missile weapons. Don't let a few bad experiences color your overall impression of the game as it stands.
As far as dodging geminis: if you are in a sufficiently agile ship the barrel roll still spoofs them, but an even safer bet is to turbo in a large circle (like back in the days of flag capping). Swarms I am not sure since no one has ever fired them at me, but if there's no nearby asteroids I'm willing to bet the circle-turbo tactic works on them as well.
As far as your pirating woes (I find this phrase slightly ironic), consider this: a trader coming out of a wormhole will have an empty battery whereas your battery will be full. Unless the trader has a fast charge, they will need to regenerate some energy before they can turbo. This gives you a few seconds to attack and leaves you with plenty of energy to maneuver with afterwards. Circle-turbo and fire off a few of your own missiles, or make a quick rocket attack and then circle-turbo.
On a side note: I said that *one* of the tactics I liked to use was to swoop in at 200 m/s. How much skill does this take? About as much as holding down "Q" and "D" firing round after round of gauss at your similarly barrel rolling opponent. I'm not saying one is better than the other, I just personally find missile battles more interesting. Of course there are many different tactics to using missiles which I'm sure you would discover if you took a few minutes and played around with them.
As far as dodging geminis: if you are in a sufficiently agile ship the barrel roll still spoofs them, but an even safer bet is to turbo in a large circle (like back in the days of flag capping). Swarms I am not sure since no one has ever fired them at me, but if there's no nearby asteroids I'm willing to bet the circle-turbo tactic works on them as well.
As far as your pirating woes (I find this phrase slightly ironic), consider this: a trader coming out of a wormhole will have an empty battery whereas your battery will be full. Unless the trader has a fast charge, they will need to regenerate some energy before they can turbo. This gives you a few seconds to attack and leaves you with plenty of energy to maneuver with afterwards. Circle-turbo and fire off a few of your own missiles, or make a quick rocket attack and then circle-turbo.
On a side note: I said that *one* of the tactics I liked to use was to swoop in at 200 m/s. How much skill does this take? About as much as holding down "Q" and "D" firing round after round of gauss at your similarly barrel rolling opponent. I'm not saying one is better than the other, I just personally find missile battles more interesting. Of course there are many different tactics to using missiles which I'm sure you would discover if you took a few minutes and played around with them.