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there are very effective tactics against rocket ramming. I'm not a good pilot, but if you see rockets coming at you, it's not too hard to move away from them... just have to keep alert. in order for someone to rocket ram you while you are in physics mode, they have to at least accelerate towards you, putting a ship like the prom at a distinct disadvantage. (perhaps I am not up to date... I've done rocket dodging (in vults with rockets or energy, or rails) with Katarn, AKA, Jm262 when they flew spiffy 3-flare valks, weapons did not take mass, and max speed of ships was 200m/s. I firmly believe it is still possible to counter ramming)
Ammo also runs out... if a prom runs out of ammo and is left with the AGT, it really becomes an energy battle, and an opponent in a light ship is much better at dodging than the prom is. AGT isn't very fast.
by the way, it is possible to dance in front of the prom, close enough to wreak havoc, but not close enough to be rammed. *vult/cent recommended :)
Ammo also runs out... if a prom runs out of ammo and is left with the AGT, it really becomes an energy battle, and an opponent in a light ship is much better at dodging than the prom is. AGT isn't very fast.
by the way, it is possible to dance in front of the prom, close enough to wreak havoc, but not close enough to be rammed. *vult/cent recommended :)
@Spellcast, sorry. I've been ignoring your suggestion to lower the thrust on a prom, and now that I think about it, it would be a good idea. With a lower thrust, a prom couldn't get away as fast, and it would perform more like the sluggish ship that it should be.
@ctishman, "Use your primary energy gun to force them into a roll that takes time to stop (e.g. the infamous gat-roll), then reverse your direction quick and snap 'em with a rail round." You make it sound easy. It shouldn't be that hard to kill a prom. It shouldn't be that hard to kill ANY ship.
Also, with your example of the mounted humvee vs. the guy with a rifle: If that is the comparison of a Valk vs. a Prom, both 'unique' ships to different factions, there DEFINETELY needs to be some big changes. If the Itani 'unique' ship is a guy with a rifle, and the Serco 'unique' ship is a mounted humvee...I think you get my point.
Finally, 50% accuracy with Rail Guns, (which, by the way, weigh 800 kg's) is a lot more difficult than it sounds. Especially when you are trying to stay out of AGT range (which is probably around 100m). And that they go extremely slowly. Yeah...
@ctishman, "Use your primary energy gun to force them into a roll that takes time to stop (e.g. the infamous gat-roll), then reverse your direction quick and snap 'em with a rail round." You make it sound easy. It shouldn't be that hard to kill a prom. It shouldn't be that hard to kill ANY ship.
Also, with your example of the mounted humvee vs. the guy with a rifle: If that is the comparison of a Valk vs. a Prom, both 'unique' ships to different factions, there DEFINETELY needs to be some big changes. If the Itani 'unique' ship is a guy with a rifle, and the Serco 'unique' ship is a mounted humvee...I think you get my point.
Finally, 50% accuracy with Rail Guns, (which, by the way, weigh 800 kg's) is a lot more difficult than it sounds. Especially when you are trying to stay out of AGT range (which is probably around 100m). And that they go extremely slowly. Yeah...
The thing is... 21,000 hit points (skycommand) takes 14 hits with rails (mark III). So who is even close to 50% accurate with any gun? Ok ok it's a sniper weapon but still. I've killed a prom with 1 rail and agt. Was it luck? Yes. The pilot was kind of a noob. Still.... If rails are the weapons to take down proms then rails need a little boost.... Let's start with the Advanced rail! Give it 20 less energy and .2 less reload time and i'll get up to 500 kills as fast as I can. Untill then.... we'll just have to wait till they rebalance the rest of the ships.
/givemoney Devs 2c
/givemoney Devs 2c
Regardless of how hard the valk may have been to kill in a bus 2 years ago, or how 1337 anybody may have been pre-release, alpha, or last week... The prom still needs a rebalance. For no other reason than it does not currently resemble its role of 'a heavy ship'. It pivots waay too easily, and dodges incredibly well -- especially for its size and reputation.
However...
The response this thread has recieved has far exceeded what was required, and while it is positive that so many players are passionate about game balance, most of it has been wasted conjecture. A very very large most of it!
The balancing issue is an ongoing thing, and each change must account for its impact on all the other balances before it. Thank you Smittens for originally bringing it to the devs notice, that yes, the prom does need some more attention, but please only reply to such points constructively and objectively -- and try to keep in mind the larger goals of this balancing operation, and what the devs are trying to achieve with it.
To summarise, if anybody contributes uselessly to yet another page of this thread... I will cry... And we dont want that now do we! :p
However...
The response this thread has recieved has far exceeded what was required, and while it is positive that so many players are passionate about game balance, most of it has been wasted conjecture. A very very large most of it!
The balancing issue is an ongoing thing, and each change must account for its impact on all the other balances before it. Thank you Smittens for originally bringing it to the devs notice, that yes, the prom does need some more attention, but please only reply to such points constructively and objectively -- and try to keep in mind the larger goals of this balancing operation, and what the devs are trying to achieve with it.
To summarise, if anybody contributes uselessly to yet another page of this thread... I will cry... And we dont want that now do we! :p
I just wanted to respond to ctishman, not on the nature of proms but on the nature of rails, ( :) hope I don't make you cry Skillz)
Amarus and I have had many a fight, pre-prom rebalance, where he showed that proms were still viable. The interesting ones tended to be his skycommand+dual rail mk III+screamer, vs my Corvus vult/SVG mit N3's.
The rails are not too hard to dodge from a vulture, and the prom strafes now better than a vulture(though owing to the distribution of mass and its length, it does not turn like one).
This makes using rails at any distance where AGT/rockets are not effective easy. Try aiming with your rails while you're trying to evade rockets and AGT.
I remember back in Amarus' and my duels, I had his timing down, and he was always a little vulnerable the second before he shot. this I think is true of just about any rail pilot. And remember, even if the rails can hit, they just don't do the damage fast enough to pose much of a threat.
It's the same issue as the valk,
the prom can always choose to flee if he gets down to 50%, chasing a prom with rails is impossible, their energy usage is too high.
Amarus and I have had many a fight, pre-prom rebalance, where he showed that proms were still viable. The interesting ones tended to be his skycommand+dual rail mk III+screamer, vs my Corvus vult/SVG mit N3's.
The rails are not too hard to dodge from a vulture, and the prom strafes now better than a vulture(though owing to the distribution of mass and its length, it does not turn like one).
This makes using rails at any distance where AGT/rockets are not effective easy. Try aiming with your rails while you're trying to evade rockets and AGT.
I remember back in Amarus' and my duels, I had his timing down, and he was always a little vulnerable the second before he shot. this I think is true of just about any rail pilot. And remember, even if the rails can hit, they just don't do the damage fast enough to pose much of a threat.
It's the same issue as the valk,
the prom can always choose to flee if he gets down to 50%, chasing a prom with rails is impossible, their energy usage is too high.
The response to this thread so far seems to be fairly divided, about 50/50. I fly the Prom and lighter ships such as the Rev C and SVG. Generally I prefer to fly the Prom because I use joysticks for aiming and that's nowhere near as precise as a mouse for light fighters.
My impression is that those pilots who are prepared to adapt can do very well against a Prom pilot, especially if the Prom pilot is a newb who "stays still and turns". Those who assume they can hammer a prom from 50m like they used to be able to with "The Brick" will continue to die.
The Prom, while it can dodge reasonably well still can't turn very quickly and is very ineffective past 100-150m. It also, unlike some people think, can not turn and run from light fighters. While it can certainly move at a fair clip it isn't fast enough to (easily) run from a battle with light fighters and certainly can't move around the battle field like a light fighter.
Hell there's a group of people who are getting pretty good at killing Proms in Centaurs. Shall we nerf the centaurs again when another light fighter pilot gets killed by one?
My impression is that those pilots who are prepared to adapt can do very well against a Prom pilot, especially if the Prom pilot is a newb who "stays still and turns". Those who assume they can hammer a prom from 50m like they used to be able to with "The Brick" will continue to die.
The Prom, while it can dodge reasonably well still can't turn very quickly and is very ineffective past 100-150m. It also, unlike some people think, can not turn and run from light fighters. While it can certainly move at a fair clip it isn't fast enough to (easily) run from a battle with light fighters and certainly can't move around the battle field like a light fighter.
Hell there's a group of people who are getting pretty good at killing Proms in Centaurs. Shall we nerf the centaurs again when another light fighter pilot gets killed by one?
Nah, I wasn't sayin that it was easy for proms to run, just that it was easy for them to run from rails.
Rails have nearly 2000m of range, from what I recall. If the Prom is at the point where it needs to run (e.g. 25% or so, boosting away from you), he's a sitting target, no?
sure, he's a sitting target for 1 set of rails, but good luck chasing after that. You'll never be able to come up with all the energy for the hits you need.
I think the rockets need to be a bit lighter so people outside the prom/SVG can get a chance to practice with them . : )
Honestly, how many of you can snipe a running maud with flares from around 4-500 meters distance when you -shoot- ?
I miss the old flarepilots, they made proms dance.
Honestly, how many of you can snipe a running maud with flares from around 4-500 meters distance when you -shoot- ?
I miss the old flarepilots, they made proms dance.
ctishman :
I have tried a zillion ways to fight the prom-agt with a light fighter. Ask Sputnik and martin.mac.au on those many long sessions we *collectively* try to figure out how to fight them. Eventually Sputnik tried to take a light fighter himself against martin, and you can ask him how successfull he was against it.
I have stopped whining about the prom, and instead concentrate on trying to figure out ways to fight them (I find them challenging). But what bugs me off is the condescending tone of many of the posts here : "if I can do it, you can" or "oh you are just not fighting right" etc etc... And I will not mince my words and say that you are one of those who does that. It is not the ship-balance issue that make me wants to give up, it is the attitude of people like this.
Listen to the people here. We all pay 10 bucks to play the game. It seems like a lot of people here are not very happy with the situation. I am not uber, so I will not make any comments on what is wrong/right with the prom, but I am telling you that all this flamy/condescension/elitist-crapfest that is being spewed here is taking away all the enjoyment I have from playing this game.
Thanks for listening.
I have tried a zillion ways to fight the prom-agt with a light fighter. Ask Sputnik and martin.mac.au on those many long sessions we *collectively* try to figure out how to fight them. Eventually Sputnik tried to take a light fighter himself against martin, and you can ask him how successfull he was against it.
I have stopped whining about the prom, and instead concentrate on trying to figure out ways to fight them (I find them challenging). But what bugs me off is the condescending tone of many of the posts here : "if I can do it, you can" or "oh you are just not fighting right" etc etc... And I will not mince my words and say that you are one of those who does that. It is not the ship-balance issue that make me wants to give up, it is the attitude of people like this.
Listen to the people here. We all pay 10 bucks to play the game. It seems like a lot of people here are not very happy with the situation. I am not uber, so I will not make any comments on what is wrong/right with the prom, but I am telling you that all this flamy/condescension/elitist-crapfest that is being spewed here is taking away all the enjoyment I have from playing this game.
Thanks for listening.
@tboyz007: What gives you the right to say that the prom should be a sluggish ship? Just because it's big?
When i take a look at all the cars on the road, there are small ones, like my Fiat Punto and there are big ones, like Mercedes and some other ... now, shall all Mercedes be sluggish just because they are big?
@Infinite_Skillz: What gives you the right to say, the prom has no role in this game atm? It has the same role like any other ship: to move around and - if you want - fight.
@softy2: Who is "We all" ... does that mean, all the people who don't fly a prom?
Sorry, the players, who fly a prom - imho most of them (yes, i know not all) are Serco - pay 10 bucks each month too. And the players, who prefer a big ship and not a light fighter, have waited long enough to get back a usable prom und we have the same d... right to get a good ship like any other player in the universe too.
And stop whining about the Sky Command with 21 k hull ... the "original" prom had 28.8 k and the agility of a maud (my personal feeling).
When i take a look at all the cars on the road, there are small ones, like my Fiat Punto and there are big ones, like Mercedes and some other ... now, shall all Mercedes be sluggish just because they are big?
@Infinite_Skillz: What gives you the right to say, the prom has no role in this game atm? It has the same role like any other ship: to move around and - if you want - fight.
@softy2: Who is "We all" ... does that mean, all the people who don't fly a prom?
Sorry, the players, who fly a prom - imho most of them (yes, i know not all) are Serco - pay 10 bucks each month too. And the players, who prefer a big ship and not a light fighter, have waited long enough to get back a usable prom und we have the same d... right to get a good ship like any other player in the universe too.
And stop whining about the Sky Command with 21 k hull ... the "original" prom had 28.8 k and the agility of a maud (my personal feeling).
The advanced rail needs to be doubled in damage. Or 500 more damage and 20 less energy. 500 kills took me 1 month to get....Not that many pilots are gonna have access to it. At least give us something that is semi-useful.
Lemme echo phoenix on this, I mean, come on, 500 kills and I got this gold watch?
Lin: I believe the point that softy was makin was that there is a strain of elitism that runs deep in this game, and threads like this bring it out. NOT, "I pay 10 bucks, listen to me not them"
Edit: wait, the old prom handled like a maud??? no wonder the bloody thing was nerfed.
Lin: I believe the point that softy was makin was that there is a strain of elitism that runs deep in this game, and threads like this bring it out. NOT, "I pay 10 bucks, listen to me not them"
Edit: wait, the old prom handled like a maud??? no wonder the bloody thing was nerfed.
Lin :
We all means we all. Us. All paying customers, including you.
Just read your own reply at my post : you are implying that I am complaining about the prom, which I am not at all. I am amazed how you can fail to see that when I made the point of saying so.
What I am complaining about is people who says "quit whining and live with it" (like your last sentence). People pay 10 bucks to have fun, not to be told to shut up when they say they are not.
I understand the devs are trying to balance the game, and I hope they succeed. But they can only succeed if ALL players make themselves heard, not just a select, self-appointed, elite few.
And yes, Shape is right about what I am saying. And I am very grateful that there still exists a patient voice like his in the midst of all this flamefest.
We all means we all. Us. All paying customers, including you.
Just read your own reply at my post : you are implying that I am complaining about the prom, which I am not at all. I am amazed how you can fail to see that when I made the point of saying so.
What I am complaining about is people who says "quit whining and live with it" (like your last sentence). People pay 10 bucks to have fun, not to be told to shut up when they say they are not.
I understand the devs are trying to balance the game, and I hope they succeed. But they can only succeed if ALL players make themselves heard, not just a select, self-appointed, elite few.
And yes, Shape is right about what I am saying. And I am very grateful that there still exists a patient voice like his in the midst of all this flamefest.
You're annoyed by arrogant elitism that seems to have taken over the forum.
Someone else is annoyed by arrogant noobism that seems to have taken over the forum.
Who will win?
That's right! It's the MAGICAL MODERATOR TEAM!
nananananana-na-na-nana-na-na-nanana-na!
MAGICAL MODERATOR TEAM!
Oh, they be mods,
They have hot bods!
Their magic powers
Spread out the flowers
While their niceness
Prevents a crisis!
Ooooh MAGICAL MODERATOR TEAM!
nanananananaDUNH!
Someone else is annoyed by arrogant noobism that seems to have taken over the forum.
Who will win?
That's right! It's the MAGICAL MODERATOR TEAM!
nananananana-na-na-nana-na-na-nanana-na!
MAGICAL MODERATOR TEAM!
Oh, they be mods,
They have hot bods!
Their magic powers
Spread out the flowers
While their niceness
Prevents a crisis!
Ooooh MAGICAL MODERATOR TEAM!
nanananananaDUNH!
I'd understand this thread better if the ships had actually finished with the balance...
Wait to see what they do with the light fighters, and stop whining in the meantime, some of you... suggestions are fine, but the thread deteriorated so fast.
This thread sorely needs to be closed...
Wait to see what they do with the light fighters, and stop whining in the meantime, some of you... suggestions are fine, but the thread deteriorated so fast.
This thread sorely needs to be closed...
softy: "if I can do it, you can" is more of encouragement, not elitism.
yay magical moderator team!
(do you really need the word "magical" in there?
reminds me of magical japanese schoolgirls... the world's defense against -anything-
*shudder* :D)
yay magical moderator team!
(do you really need the word "magical" in there?
reminds me of magical japanese schoolgirls... the world's defense against -anything-
*shudder* :D)
Ive got a few words to say on this. First off the prom itself is not uber, it can manuever a tad too fast but its really not too bad. Secondly its the agt/rocket combos on proms that are insanely overpowered, point n click, boom. And last, fix the poor advanced rail gun pretty please, all of us who busted our balls to get 500kills are sorely disppointed with it.
oh! oh! can we get a "I was killed 25 times by the same player"-badge? the reward should be a ship that always smokes. :-)