Forums » Bugs
While in the past months the issue was solved by the devs some new oddities have occured ever since the latest big update:
1. Rocket hits don't record. In numerous fights against various players I had I saw this happen. I flared my opponent and the flare detonated right on his ship or very close next to it but causes absolutely zero damage. Had the exact same Thing happen with Jackhammers. This doesn't always happen, sometimes the damage is suddenly registered again as if nothing happened. At first I thought I just fired inaccurately but now that it has happened a good 7 times with different rockets and withing 2 days against different Players, I think this is just an oddity with VO.
2. Energy hits don't register as nicely anymore either. It didn't happen as often to me as the flare problem did. But apparently other players had this issue happen a lot
3. A very odd loading error occured. A guildmate of mine jumped into a sector to PvP a friend but did not appear in the sector. He flew "invisibly", could do damage, but could not be seen by his opponent.
Would be cool if you looked into this, devs. Looks as though the update somehow influenced the fluent relatively lag-free PvP we had before. It's probably an easy fix.
1. Rocket hits don't record. In numerous fights against various players I had I saw this happen. I flared my opponent and the flare detonated right on his ship or very close next to it but causes absolutely zero damage. Had the exact same Thing happen with Jackhammers. This doesn't always happen, sometimes the damage is suddenly registered again as if nothing happened. At first I thought I just fired inaccurately but now that it has happened a good 7 times with different rockets and withing 2 days against different Players, I think this is just an oddity with VO.
2. Energy hits don't register as nicely anymore either. It didn't happen as often to me as the flare problem did. But apparently other players had this issue happen a lot
3. A very odd loading error occured. A guildmate of mine jumped into a sector to PvP a friend but did not appear in the sector. He flew "invisibly", could do damage, but could not be seen by his opponent.
Would be cool if you looked into this, devs. Looks as though the update somehow influenced the fluent relatively lag-free PvP we had before. It's probably an easy fix.
Rocket detonation is handled by the firing client, but the hit registration is done by the server. I've seen people lagging so hard that their rockets were exploding far outside of their splash range, which is larger than their prox range.
There's a variable you can set on your game that will turn on the network quality report so it will put messages on the chat when it detects lag or packet loss. Try that and see if it's the cause?
There's a variable you can set on your game that will turn on the network quality report so it will put messages on the chat when it detects lag or packet loss. Try that and see if it's the cause?
When it comes to network issues, there's no such thing as 'an easy fix'.
But we did notice a large jump in network traffic after the server restart.
But we did notice a large jump in network traffic after the server restart.
I've seen all of these behaviours, but not 3. Sometimes during a fight, 2 or more sets of flares were dead on, but no hit beep.
Have come back after a short break and am wondering what gives with only half my missiles registering hits and also none of them having any effect on shields anymore? Multiple perfect stacks of Gem/Chaos on enemy Tridents in Deneb even when I hear/see them all connect the enemy trident shields don't even flicker.
yep. had a cormaud duel with somebody yesterday. he ate 4 flare pairs of which only one was recorded. i also got in 4 or 5 energy hits of which only two did damage. in the end my enemy was stil flying with a ship that should have been destroyed long ago. i understand lag happens but it gets furstrating when it completely makes you unable to pvp. please work on this.
vrzzzt... Electricity
vrzzzt... Electricity
Came to report the same thing. No matter who I fight, roughly only about 70% of the hits (rocket, energy or otherwise) are being received as damage to either party, much like the bug that occurred months back.
The warranties are working!!!
But seriously, I see the same thing.
But seriously, I see the same thing.
ok i did another test fight in an empty sector with no asteroids. so there were just me and my guildmate. we fought each other and at first our rockets registered fine. in the end my Buddy was at 25% and i flared him doing zero damage with a perfectly aimed couple. the concussion however did come in effect so his ship spun so i could flare him again with a pair that did do damage again. the same story happened when he was showing 4% - i flared and did zero damage.
it hasn't gotten any better and also happens in empty sectors.
vrzzzt.... Electricity
it hasn't gotten any better and also happens in empty sectors.
vrzzzt.... Electricity
I too have seen hits not registering, both in pve and pvp.
i've noticed when repairing the trident about 40% of the hits aren't landing as of late making repairing take painfully long.
In duels the odd shot doesn't land which is sometimes normal but these ones have been point blank obvious hits but normally I wouldn't think much of that but coupled with the fact that repair shots at a giant object in space at point blank range and is impossible to miss in any prediction model is also not registering is what got me to consider it could be a problem
In duels the odd shot doesn't land which is sometimes normal but these ones have been point blank obvious hits but normally I wouldn't think much of that but coupled with the fact that repair shots at a giant object in space at point blank range and is impossible to miss in any prediction model is also not registering is what got me to consider it could be a problem
This is actually becoming incredibly annoying.
yeah, its not worth even trying to PvP at the moment. Even PvE is frustrating.
Yesterday in a border skirmish i saw Foreshadow's entire stack of missiles (80+ swarms and gems) smack into a Teradon and the shield meter didn't even blink.
I've had the network quuality report turned on since day 1, but the only time it shows up is right after login when the averages are wonky.
I've had the network quuality report turned on since day 1, but the only time it shows up is right after login when the averages are wonky.
a teradon in a sector I was in was stationary. Not registering hits consistently. Doesn't look like a networking issue. Seems more like a physics sampling issue on either this updated client or on the server since this started happening since the last release.
in any case.. combat just turned much less into a test of skill and more into a roll of dice and who has more ammo.
in any case.. combat just turned much less into a test of skill and more into a roll of dice and who has more ammo.
- It's not a network issue -
This is how I understand how the game works:
Client Hits
Hits are primarily calculated on the client. Thus, there is no visible lag when you are playing. Hits are registered instantaneously and the graphics shows that nice splash. :-)
This concept has one flaw, of course: You could easily cheat by manipulating your client software and/or the network traffic.
Server Hits
To prevent this, the developers made the server to calculate every trajectory of every projectile/rocket/missile whatsoever too -- independently and simultaneously to the clients. Thus, a hit becomes a "real" hit only if the server's calculation comes to this result.
In other words: The client is responsible for visual animation whereas the server determines the rightfulness of the hit, decreases enemy health and orders the client to output a "beep".
Weapons in Software
In computer things there is no analogue value. Everything has to be digital. Even your shots do not just fly straight and smooth, they literally jump instead.
If you have enough CPU power available, you can minimize these jumps to such short distances that the result will nearly be a linear constant motion.
A Hit in Software
How does the software realize that a hit is a hit? It's not difficult for the Software to determine if your projectile is currently located inside another ship. So, if that "jumping" shot "enters" an enemy ship for the first time, the Software knows that this ship must have been hit now.
The Question of CPU Power
As mentioned above you need a lot of CPU power to calculate all these movements. If you do not have CPU power in abundance, you will be forced to household with this resource. The first compromise you might think of is to widen the movement jumps. If you double the jump distances, you will need only half the CPU power.
When the Jumps are too wide
What if you triple or quadruple the distances? Then it might happen that your shot jumps right through an enemy vessel without being registered as hit because there is no point in time this shot is actually calculated as located _inside_ that vessel.
Why is this Bug new?
If I remember correctly, about one week ago the number of NPC ships was increased significantly. There are tons of cargo ships permanently circling around the stations and flying throughout the galaxy. That's really nice to look at. I presume that the developers committed to this step because they wanted Vendetta to become more attractive in a visual manner.
More NPC ships, more new PC ships (the Android thing...) require more CPU power. This might be the reason for increased "jumps" distances.... and the reason for unregistered hits. That is, if I understand the game logic correctly.
Enough for now. It's just my point of view. My little world. Maybe it's completely different in reality... :-)
This is how I understand how the game works:
Client Hits
Hits are primarily calculated on the client. Thus, there is no visible lag when you are playing. Hits are registered instantaneously and the graphics shows that nice splash. :-)
This concept has one flaw, of course: You could easily cheat by manipulating your client software and/or the network traffic.
Server Hits
To prevent this, the developers made the server to calculate every trajectory of every projectile/rocket/missile whatsoever too -- independently and simultaneously to the clients. Thus, a hit becomes a "real" hit only if the server's calculation comes to this result.
In other words: The client is responsible for visual animation whereas the server determines the rightfulness of the hit, decreases enemy health and orders the client to output a "beep".
Weapons in Software
In computer things there is no analogue value. Everything has to be digital. Even your shots do not just fly straight and smooth, they literally jump instead.
If you have enough CPU power available, you can minimize these jumps to such short distances that the result will nearly be a linear constant motion.
A Hit in Software
How does the software realize that a hit is a hit? It's not difficult for the Software to determine if your projectile is currently located inside another ship. So, if that "jumping" shot "enters" an enemy ship for the first time, the Software knows that this ship must have been hit now.
The Question of CPU Power
As mentioned above you need a lot of CPU power to calculate all these movements. If you do not have CPU power in abundance, you will be forced to household with this resource. The first compromise you might think of is to widen the movement jumps. If you double the jump distances, you will need only half the CPU power.
When the Jumps are too wide
What if you triple or quadruple the distances? Then it might happen that your shot jumps right through an enemy vessel without being registered as hit because there is no point in time this shot is actually calculated as located _inside_ that vessel.
Why is this Bug new?
If I remember correctly, about one week ago the number of NPC ships was increased significantly. There are tons of cargo ships permanently circling around the stations and flying throughout the galaxy. That's really nice to look at. I presume that the developers committed to this step because they wanted Vendetta to become more attractive in a visual manner.
More NPC ships, more new PC ships (the Android thing...) require more CPU power. This might be the reason for increased "jumps" distances.... and the reason for unregistered hits. That is, if I understand the game logic correctly.
Enough for now. It's just my point of view. My little world. Maybe it's completely different in reality... :-)
if the game works like some open source games i've worked on behave. You dont "jump" really. What the physics engine does is schedule checks based on a combination of random seed and distance between any collidable object. Rudimentary checks that are very fast are used to determine if any objects need more exact checks. The closer objects become, the more often these checks are scheduled, additionally, the more complex the collision detection algorithm needs to become.
There are a number of ways to reduce cpu usage here. Like mentioned above, you can decrease scheduling of checks (which is what the above poster means by jumps). Or you can reduce the complexity of the checks. Both increase the risk of missing collisions (hits).
An alternative approach to handling increasing units is likely too expensive for the devs. That would be to have the VO server everyone connects to simply be a proxy to a farm of servers, each one processing a dynamic subset of the game's sectors. Completely transparent to the client, the server cluster could be setup to treat every sector in every system independently and juggle them between eachother as load requires. This might even be how it is right now. In which case the theory that physics checking got toned down to handle more npc's doesn't make sense.
There are a number of ways to reduce cpu usage here. Like mentioned above, you can decrease scheduling of checks (which is what the above poster means by jumps). Or you can reduce the complexity of the checks. Both increase the risk of missing collisions (hits).
An alternative approach to handling increasing units is likely too expensive for the devs. That would be to have the VO server everyone connects to simply be a proxy to a farm of servers, each one processing a dynamic subset of the game's sectors. Completely transparent to the client, the server cluster could be setup to treat every sector in every system independently and juggle them between eachother as load requires. This might even be how it is right now. In which case the theory that physics checking got toned down to handle more npc's doesn't make sense.
You guys are speculating far too wildly about how the game handles weapons and hit detection, best leave that to the devs.
You could easily cheat by manipulating your client software
Yeah? Good luck with that, as far as I know, no-one to date has busted into the client's code.
You could easily cheat by manipulating your client software
Yeah? Good luck with that, as far as I know, no-one to date has busted into the client's code.
Of course we're wildly speculating. What else is there to do .. the game is barely playable unless you like to leave combat to chance or dont participate in combat.
as far as manipulating the client software, decompiling and hex editing the client code in-place isn't necessary to manipulate the client. You could manipulate one of the low level libraries that it links to like libc so that your calls to gettimeofday and friends ...which the client almost certainly uses to keep track of when an event has occured can be controlled with a home-built libc with whatever modifications you need. Now all of a sudden, you can fake when events occur and as far as your client knows nothing is abnormal, but now it sends back event times to the server that dont jive making the server think you are lagged or it is. The server probably compensates for the various player's latency and either picks the client with earliest times or some compromise. Only way to get around that is static builds of VO.
Though, the cheaters dont need to go through all that trouble to cheat in VO. The script system is completely unregulated and abused. Patch that hole up and devs could quiet almost all talk of this person or that person cheating.
as far as manipulating the client software, decompiling and hex editing the client code in-place isn't necessary to manipulate the client. You could manipulate one of the low level libraries that it links to like libc so that your calls to gettimeofday and friends ...which the client almost certainly uses to keep track of when an event has occured can be controlled with a home-built libc with whatever modifications you need. Now all of a sudden, you can fake when events occur and as far as your client knows nothing is abnormal, but now it sends back event times to the server that dont jive making the server think you are lagged or it is. The server probably compensates for the various player's latency and either picks the client with earliest times or some compromise. Only way to get around that is static builds of VO.
Though, the cheaters dont need to go through all that trouble to cheat in VO. The script system is completely unregulated and abused. Patch that hole up and devs could quiet almost all talk of this person or that person cheating.
One affect of more people playing VO is more people trying to / succeeding at hacking it. Glad I'm not a dev. :)