Forums » Suggestions
Now border missions are great and I cant wait for more PVP action in the future, but a tactic has cropped up that is as disgraceful as it is dishonorable. Using an explode bind to kill oneself before an enemy can kill you in order for them to A) not get the kill point B) not receive a kill for the BP mission.
Now in the case of just some little scuffle in some random sector this would not be a major problem, but in the case of this being in a PVP mission where the object is to kill your opponent this becomes quite a problem.
As such I would like to request that restrictions similar to the log off sequence in space be set in place for self destruction. With a slightly less time though, say 5 seconds, but if the ship is in motion (just like in log off) the count down is aborted.
(Also as a side note, could you make the itani/serco bots stop attacking each-other it takes away from the purpose of the mission which is to make them attack players. ) :D
Now in the case of just some little scuffle in some random sector this would not be a major problem, but in the case of this being in a PVP mission where the object is to kill your opponent this becomes quite a problem.
As such I would like to request that restrictions similar to the log off sequence in space be set in place for self destruction. With a slightly less time though, say 5 seconds, but if the ship is in motion (just like in log off) the count down is aborted.
(Also as a side note, could you make the itani/serco bots stop attacking each-other it takes away from the purpose of the mission which is to make them attack players. ) :D
Personally, I think there should be a 10 second countdown, but I don't think there should be a restriction on movement, the way there is for /logoff.
A countdown won't cut it. It's still pretty easy to escape, avoid fire, and explode within 10 seconds. I've said it once and I'll say it again, there's no point to /explode anymore. You don't need it. When was the last time you used it for practical purposes? It was probably only intended to stop you from getting stuck, either from extreme distances or within objects you somehow managed to fly through. But that's not a problem anymore.
If there was a 5 second timer disallowing maneuvering I don't think any ship would be able to survive that long in the middle of a dogfight holding still.
As SS's dishonorable enemy, my 2c on /explode are that it needs a timer both for practical purposes (aka my not simply going pop to be a jerk :) and for realism (all auto destruct sequences have some sort of timer.
However, it does have some practical purpose. Two concrete examples: first, I fell asleep at the helm of my rune one night, set for infinboost... I awoke to find myself far far far from the auto destruct barrier for a sector set by the Devs, but far enough out there was a bug preventing me from jumping. Quitting and logging did nothing: /explode was all I could do, short of emailing Guild with a "WFT, mates?!"
Second, last night I was out of ammo, in an engagement with EnB SF 7-1 in Sector C10. I was more than willing to sacrifice my battered but well above 50% rag to take out his annoying tin can IBG flying punk ass. And that's *exactly* what I did: timed my /explode just right, when he was pulling that "get really up in Lecter's face" BS, and sent him and his ship (also at a decent %) straight to the awaiting Void. It was probably the kill I enjoyed most of the evening, and there were many indeed. A timer would require more skill to use /explode as a weapon, but not prevent it from being so used.
Finally, I hate the fact serco has to do a WH jump to repair & reload. I also have a butt-load of credits. /explode lets me get back, reload and head back in to the fray in half the time it would take otherwise. This is a GOOD thing. So, a timer it should be.
To fix Arolte's concern, we could make it like log out, where boosting or firing would cut the /explode sequence entirely. However, that would essentially destroy the usefulness of /explode as a last ditch weapon, something I think is really a bad idea.
However, it does have some practical purpose. Two concrete examples: first, I fell asleep at the helm of my rune one night, set for infinboost... I awoke to find myself far far far from the auto destruct barrier for a sector set by the Devs, but far enough out there was a bug preventing me from jumping. Quitting and logging did nothing: /explode was all I could do, short of emailing Guild with a "WFT, mates?!"
Second, last night I was out of ammo, in an engagement with EnB SF 7-1 in Sector C10. I was more than willing to sacrifice my battered but well above 50% rag to take out his annoying tin can IBG flying punk ass. And that's *exactly* what I did: timed my /explode just right, when he was pulling that "get really up in Lecter's face" BS, and sent him and his ship (also at a decent %) straight to the awaiting Void. It was probably the kill I enjoyed most of the evening, and there were many indeed. A timer would require more skill to use /explode as a weapon, but not prevent it from being so used.
Finally, I hate the fact serco has to do a WH jump to repair & reload. I also have a butt-load of credits. /explode lets me get back, reload and head back in to the fray in half the time it would take otherwise. This is a GOOD thing. So, a timer it should be.
To fix Arolte's concern, we could make it like log out, where boosting or firing would cut the /explode sequence entirely. However, that would essentially destroy the usefulness of /explode as a last ditch weapon, something I think is really a bad idea.
>However, it does have some practical purpose. Two concrete examples: first, I fell
>asleep at the helm of my rune one night, set for infinboost... I awoke to find
>myself far far far from the auto destruct barrier for a sector set by the Devs, but
>far enough out there was a bug preventing me from jumping. Quitting and logging
>did nothing: /explode was all I could do, short of emailing Guild with a "WFT,
>mates?!"
This is something that can be fixed in future releases. Reporting it as a bug would be a good start. This problem can also be solved with the removal of infini-boost, which seems to be an increasing trend anyway. But anyway, unless you've got a severe case of narcolepsy this isn't a problem you'd run into a whole lot. Most often you can't get stuck in this game unless you try really, REALLY hard.
>Second, last night I was out of ammo, in an engagement with EnB SF 7-1 in Sector
>C10. I was more than willing to sacrifice my battered but well above 50% rag to
>take out his annoying tin can IBG flying punk ass. And that's *exactly* what I did:
>timed my /explode just right, when he was pulling that "get really up in Lecter's
>face" BS, and sent him and his ship (also at a decent %) straight to the awaiting
>Void. It was probably the kill I enjoyed most of the evening, and there were many
>indeed. A timer would require more skill to use /explode as a weapon, but not
>prevent it from being so used.
This is not practical, IMO. He engaged you fair and square, whether it was a duel or not. He was playing within the boundaries and rules of the game as a PvP combatant. He deserved the kill he worked for. And to escape from death like that, and in hopes of taking him out with you, pretty much makes that a textbook example of cowardice and shame. It ruins the fun in a game where PvP is already hard to come by as it is.
>Finally, I hate the fact serco has to do a WH jump to repair & reload. I also have a
>butt-load of credits. /explode lets me get back, reload and head back in to the
>fray in half the time it would take otherwise. This is a GOOD thing. So, a timer it
>should be.
Once again, not practical. If you ever take a long road trip in a car and decided after reaching your destination you were too bored or tired to drive back home, you don't normally blow yourself up and then magically appear back home. Heck, good luck even trying to survive something like that. You're more than welcome to try it though.
>asleep at the helm of my rune one night, set for infinboost... I awoke to find
>myself far far far from the auto destruct barrier for a sector set by the Devs, but
>far enough out there was a bug preventing me from jumping. Quitting and logging
>did nothing: /explode was all I could do, short of emailing Guild with a "WFT,
>mates?!"
This is something that can be fixed in future releases. Reporting it as a bug would be a good start. This problem can also be solved with the removal of infini-boost, which seems to be an increasing trend anyway. But anyway, unless you've got a severe case of narcolepsy this isn't a problem you'd run into a whole lot. Most often you can't get stuck in this game unless you try really, REALLY hard.
>Second, last night I was out of ammo, in an engagement with EnB SF 7-1 in Sector
>C10. I was more than willing to sacrifice my battered but well above 50% rag to
>take out his annoying tin can IBG flying punk ass. And that's *exactly* what I did:
>timed my /explode just right, when he was pulling that "get really up in Lecter's
>face" BS, and sent him and his ship (also at a decent %) straight to the awaiting
>Void. It was probably the kill I enjoyed most of the evening, and there were many
>indeed. A timer would require more skill to use /explode as a weapon, but not
>prevent it from being so used.
This is not practical, IMO. He engaged you fair and square, whether it was a duel or not. He was playing within the boundaries and rules of the game as a PvP combatant. He deserved the kill he worked for. And to escape from death like that, and in hopes of taking him out with you, pretty much makes that a textbook example of cowardice and shame. It ruins the fun in a game where PvP is already hard to come by as it is.
>Finally, I hate the fact serco has to do a WH jump to repair & reload. I also have a
>butt-load of credits. /explode lets me get back, reload and head back in to the
>fray in half the time it would take otherwise. This is a GOOD thing. So, a timer it
>should be.
Once again, not practical. If you ever take a long road trip in a car and decided after reaching your destination you were too bored or tired to drive back home, you don't normally blow yourself up and then magically appear back home. Heck, good luck even trying to survive something like that. You're more than welcome to try it though.
Please make /explode assign ex and mission credit to the last enemy that damaged the exploder.
Kind of like my PK credit suggestion here:
http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/10374
Granted, the XP I was also suggesting was a bit high, but in light of the BP mission, I don't think it's too out of hand. :P Besides, you can input other modifiers that scale XP down.
http://www.vendetta-online.com/x/msgboard/3/10374
Granted, the XP I was also suggesting was a bit high, but in light of the BP mission, I don't think it's too out of hand. :P Besides, you can input other modifiers that scale XP down.
Arolte, I wouldn't say that what Lecter did is at all cowardly or shameful. If you have no ammunition whatsoever, and are going to die anyway, would it not make sense to find a way to take your enemy with you? It's a perfectly legitimate tactic. Obviously, using /explode simply to prevent someone else from making a kill is bad. But if you're actually using the explosion to cause damage...
"This is not practical, IMO. He engaged you fair and square, whether it was a duel or not. He was playing within the boundaries and rules of the game as a PvP combatant. He deserved the kill he worked for."
Sorry Arolte, suicide to take an enemy down is a long established and acceptable tactic in many cultures definitions of honorable warfare. Ever hear of the Kamakazi pilots of world war two?.
Exploding just to deny an enemy the kill IS cowardly and lame.
Exploding at just the right time in order to take an enemy down WITH you is an acceptable tactic, if somewhat desperate.
Sorry Arolte, suicide to take an enemy down is a long established and acceptable tactic in many cultures definitions of honorable warfare. Ever hear of the Kamakazi pilots of world war two?.
Exploding just to deny an enemy the kill IS cowardly and lame.
Exploding at just the right time in order to take an enemy down WITH you is an acceptable tactic, if somewhat desperate.
>Tyrdium wrote:
>
>Arolte, I wouldn't say that what Lecter did is at all cowardly or shameful. If you
>have no ammunition whatsoever, and are going to die anyway, would it not make
>sense to find a way to take your enemy with you? It's a perfectly legitimate tactic.
My suggestion would be not to outfit your ship with ammo-based weapons only. That's something EVERY pilot should consider. If you hate it, too bad. Face the consequences. What I'm saying is just because someone carelessly equips a ship with limited weaponry doesn't mean they've got the right to explode in people's faces once they've run out of ammo. There are those of us who actually think ahead and equip weapons of both types, so they wouldn't have to resort to such lame tactics.
>Spellcast wrote:
>
>Sorry Arolte, suicide to take an enemy down is a long established and acceptable
>tactic in many cultures definitions of honorable warfare. Ever hear of the Kamakazi
>pilots of world war two?.
Sure, I've heard of it. But it ruins the fun factor of combat for a game where it's already hard as hell to actually catch up to people in the vast universe.
>Exploding just to deny an enemy the kill IS cowardly and lame.
And people continue to do it using /explode, both in BP missions and random PvP skirmishes. Which is why I'm so strongly against having /explode available in the first place.
>
>Arolte, I wouldn't say that what Lecter did is at all cowardly or shameful. If you
>have no ammunition whatsoever, and are going to die anyway, would it not make
>sense to find a way to take your enemy with you? It's a perfectly legitimate tactic.
My suggestion would be not to outfit your ship with ammo-based weapons only. That's something EVERY pilot should consider. If you hate it, too bad. Face the consequences. What I'm saying is just because someone carelessly equips a ship with limited weaponry doesn't mean they've got the right to explode in people's faces once they've run out of ammo. There are those of us who actually think ahead and equip weapons of both types, so they wouldn't have to resort to such lame tactics.
>Spellcast wrote:
>
>Sorry Arolte, suicide to take an enemy down is a long established and acceptable
>tactic in many cultures definitions of honorable warfare. Ever hear of the Kamakazi
>pilots of world war two?.
Sure, I've heard of it. But it ruins the fun factor of combat for a game where it's already hard as hell to actually catch up to people in the vast universe.
>Exploding just to deny an enemy the kill IS cowardly and lame.
And people continue to do it using /explode, both in BP missions and random PvP skirmishes. Which is why I'm so strongly against having /explode available in the first place.
<quote=silentsuicide>(Also as a side note, could you make the itani/serco bots stop attacking each-other it takes away from the purpose of the mission which is to make them attack players. ) :D
</quote>
on this note, I rather like this, it lets the bots interact with one another, which is a step in the right direction.
</quote>
on this note, I rather like this, it lets the bots interact with one another, which is a step in the right direction.
I think what Lecter did is an excellent example of unorthodox tactics. Especially since he got credit for the PK of Silent. Now if I has been on the receiving end of the dirty trick, there would probably be more killing of Lecter for retribution. But, knowing the doctor, it's exactly the kind of thing he would do, being out of missiles and with no options left.
/explode is fine as-is. The folks that purposefully explode to deny PK's will eventually find themselves ostracized, or purposefully ganked.
/explode is fine as-is. The folks that purposefully explode to deny PK's will eventually find themselves ostracized, or purposefully ganked.
He never got a kill from me when he exploded, if he had I would have laughed my ass off and probably never brought up this topic, killing somebody with an explode is no easy feat, but he sure as hell was not out of ammo, the few times he did this (along with another pilot who will not be named unless they themselves step forwards) they were at roughly 20% (ie one more flare hit)
As for the bot interaction thing, its not so much interaction as it is them spinning around each-other for an hour not hitting anything.
As for the bot interaction thing, its not so much interaction as it is them spinning around each-other for an hour not hitting anything.
I was killed by somebody using /explode specifically for that purpose last night. I called it lame on channel 100, and it *is* a lame tactic, but despite being lame, I still think it's something that adds to the game.
What I'd like, is a 10 second delay, possibly w/ notification to surrounding players that the ship is about to self-destruct, so the surrounding players can either get out of the blast radius or else try to finish it off before the 10 seconds ends.
What I'd like, is a 10 second delay, possibly w/ notification to surrounding players that the ship is about to self-destruct, so the surrounding players can either get out of the blast radius or else try to finish it off before the 10 seconds ends.
I totally agree with Beolach. It is as valid a tactic as anything that's been called "dishonorable" before.
But give it a timer (not a "don't move" restriction) and have anyone within the blast radius be warned by their ship's computer. If they can get away, good for them; if not, it's kablooie time.
Also, there's another practical use for /explode, in trading.
I buy a moth(or any other ship), homing in the station I bought it at. I go to Corvus and sell it for a profit (or whatever station the ship sells good for). I then "buy" a free govbus, leave the station and /explode. I'm immediately returned to the station to buy another moth and do it all over again without having had to fly back there. If I fill the moth with cargo that sells well at the target station, my profit's increased further.
But give it a timer (not a "don't move" restriction) and have anyone within the blast radius be warned by their ship's computer. If they can get away, good for them; if not, it's kablooie time.
Also, there's another practical use for /explode, in trading.
I buy a moth(or any other ship), homing in the station I bought it at. I go to Corvus and sell it for a profit (or whatever station the ship sells good for). I then "buy" a free govbus, leave the station and /explode. I'm immediately returned to the station to buy another moth and do it all over again without having had to fly back there. If I fill the moth with cargo that sells well at the target station, my profit's increased further.
I have been a "victim" of such a tactic recently. This person (who will not be named, unless he/she intend to keep on doing this to me) likes to pick on my character "Henry Jekyll". I humoured him the first few times (since he claimed that he is roleplaying a 'serco hater'), but then it got a bit tiresome so I decided not to give him battle.
But he persists, so I thought, okay, fair enough, I can fight you if you insist. So I fought him, but now he would /explode everytime he is down to 20-30. Now, I think if you start a fight, you should have the balls to finish it and admit it that you have lost. The excuses ran the gamut from "I don't do multis" to "I do as I wish". Now, that is NOT roleplaying.
If you just want to /explode because you are tired of being beaten then stop picking a fight with my character "Henry Jekyll". My character does not start a fight (except when doing BP missions or in the rare occasion he is CTCing), because he is a pacifist Serco.
This is my opinion, I will let everyone decide whether this behaviour is lame or not.
But he persists, so I thought, okay, fair enough, I can fight you if you insist. So I fought him, but now he would /explode everytime he is down to 20-30. Now, I think if you start a fight, you should have the balls to finish it and admit it that you have lost. The excuses ran the gamut from "I don't do multis" to "I do as I wish". Now, that is NOT roleplaying.
If you just want to /explode because you are tired of being beaten then stop picking a fight with my character "Henry Jekyll". My character does not start a fight (except when doing BP missions or in the rare occasion he is CTCing), because he is a pacifist Serco.
This is my opinion, I will let everyone decide whether this behaviour is lame or not.
A delay sounds nice. Maybe something like a 5 second delay during which the /exploding ship comes to a halt and his engine glow gets REALLY bright (he is, after all, overloading his reactor). A warning (to people that pay enough attention), a chance for the other party to get a kill (5 seconds is long enough to kill just about anything), plus a neato animation. Everybody wins!
Delays don't work very well. For example people still manage to /logoff easily and escape death with the delay in. It might make it slightly harder for people to exploit these things, but I seriously doubt it'll solve any of the problems that are mentioned. At the very least I think XP points should be awarded to someone who killed a /exploder. It's kind of like Halo 2's scoring system. If you damage someone and they commit suicide, the last person to inflict the most damage will get the kill.